Barbarian Build Help 3.5 Please Look

[Warren Peace]

Hey War here and I am sorry I have to ask this question again although I did receive some good help last time, but I need a little more...

So my DM is new (actually I have been training him and he is doing good so far) but he wants to stick to core classes for the most part nothing too complicated.

Well last time when I asked for a UBER POWERFUL BARBARIAN build I got a lot of multi-classing and variants that are not only really complicated to work out all of the combos but also trying to convince him to let me multi-class a thousand times from classes spanning the entire 3.5 collection and then some isn't going to happen. It has to be simple.

I am a Orc and currently I am level 2 Barbarian with the Power Attack feat. I am NE.

I am interested in going into the FB Prestige class but depending on how my build goes I may not do that.

I was told of two different approaches for making a decent barbarian build:

#1 The Intimidation build where you intimidate on your attacks and basically demoralize your foes into submission. I like this class but I know my DM. If I start making all of his crap cower and run away he WILL retaliate harshly. He is just like that. (when I played a mage he literally made every monster and boss 100% SR and most of the time had anti magic field. He is vindictive.)

#2 The "Uber Charger" build. I like this one a lot more because you basically charge, chop, kill, charge again. It's pretty much simple and straight forward.

My question for you is how do I get all the needed feats to make my barbarian awesome like these to builds? Do I multi-class into fighter? if so how many levels should I do? Also with the charger build should I be multi-classing into Dragoon as well?

I am really confused I see the "cheese" of charging, Power Attack, and Leap Attack to do epic amounts of damage but I really see no way to get the amount of feats I need before reaching level 20 (we hardly ever get that high in a campaign)

If someone has a good barbarian build please show me it in the most SIMPLISTIC form you can. My mind is literally swimming with so many multi-classing and feat combos I cant think straight.

PLEASE READ FOR CLARITY'S SAKE!
Once again my DM is very new to the DM chair and wants simple classes from in or around core books. Anything else like Dragon Magazines or crazy home brew adaptations or anything else too extreme he will more than likely not let me do. Furthermore I am new to multi-classing characters and new to the Barbarian build I want to make my Barbarian as powerful as possible while keeping it simple for us both to understand. I hope that helps for explaining myself.

So if you have a tried and true proven barbarian build that can seriously dish out the damage please show me it I would be very appreciative :smallsmile:

P.S. I do not want to prestige into anything that does spells or take classes in spells my team has a Bard and a Druid to do all those buffs and spell combos.

Thanks for looking and reading and for any help offered!

[eggynack]

The wolf totem spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian is actually really far from being difficult to work out. Apart from spirit lion totem, which is in complete champion, all of the necessary components are in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/), which is super accessible. It's basically just a normal barbarian, except it has improved trip rather than uncanny dodge, whirling frenzy instead of rage, and pounce instead of fast movement. Pounce is just to let you full attack on a charge, which is actually helpful at low levels with the extra attack from whirling frenzy. Whirling frenzy is slightly more complicated, though nowhere near incomprehensible. Instead of normal rage bonuses you get an extra attack at your highest iterative, +4 to strength, +2 AC and reflex saves, and a -2 penalty to attack. For power attacking builds, you may want to consider shock trooper from complete warrior. You get the feat at BAB +6, and it lets you take the penalty to hit to your AC instead on a charge. It's basically not a penalty at all, because you're probably going to instantly kill any enemy you hit.

[Warren Peace]

The wolf totem spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian is actually really far from being difficult to work out. Apart from spirit lion totem, which is in complete champion, all of the necessary components are in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/), which is super accessible. It's basically just a normal barbarian, except it has improved trip rather than uncanny dodge, whirling frenzy instead of rage, and pounce instead of fast movement. Pounce is just to let you full attack on a charge, which is actually helpful at low levels with the extra attack from whirling frenzy. Whirling frenzy is slightly more complicated, though nowhere near incomprehensible. Instead of normal rage bonuses you get an extra attack at your highest iterative, +4 to strength, +2 AC and reflex saves, and a -2 penalty to attack. For power attacking builds, you may want to consider shock trooper from complete warrior. You get the feat at BAB +6, and it lets you take the penalty to hit to your AC instead on a charge. It's basically not a penalty at all, because you're probably going to instantly kill any enemy you hit.
So far I have seen and written down all of that I am glad to know I am on the right track then :smallsmile: thanks again!

[Waker]

In the future if you are curious about the ACFs that people mention, here is a list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III).

My question for you is how do I get all the needed feats to make my barbarian awesome like these to builds? Do I multi-class into fighter? if so how many levels should I do? Also with the charger build should I be multi-classing into Dragoon as well?
Diping into Fighter is fine, though depending on exactly which feats you need, Ranger is acceptable too (Endurance for example). How many levels is really dependent on how many feats you need. I have no idea what Dragoon class is from so I can't comment on it.

I am really confused I see the "cheese" of charging, Power Attack, and Leap Attack to do epic amounts of damage but I really see no way to get the amount of feats I need before reaching level 20 (we hardly ever get that high in a campaign)
Many people are put off by the idea of a character who can run up and kill a level appropriate threat in one round. If you optimize a character to do this, your DM is likely to increase the number of enemies you encounter, include difficult terrain that disallows charging or resorts to tactics that negate charging, such as readying an action and using a 5-foot step.

I will also take the time to point out the inherent danger in playing a Frenzied Berzerker. While the class may seem like a blast, there is a very real chance you will end up killing a party member(s) and end up with some bad blood between you and other players. Should you go with this class, I strongly recommend you go with as many Will save boosts as you can manage.

[Malak'ai]

Okay, I'm going to be as simplistic as I can get, though you might need to run a couple of things by your DM first.

Orc (Spirit Lion Totem*) Barbarian feats.
1st: Power Attack
Flaw 1**: Imp. Bull Rush
Flaw 2**: Imp. Initiative
3rd: Leap Attack
6th: Shock Trooper
9th: free
12th: free
15th: free
18th: free

Depending on what you need to get into FB, you can delay some of them. If you don't delay and are willing to stick with Barb, then you should have the basic Charger Build set at level 6.
All the feats, flaws and ACF I have listed come from 5 books (or the SRD and 3 other books), PHB, Unearthed Acarna, Complete Adventurer,Warrior and Champion.

* You'll have to run this past your DM as this ACF has to be taken at level 1 (at least, that's my interpretation) for the "Pounce" ability that you'll be wanting, but it is needed to net you full attacks off a charge.
** Yes, I know you said you're level 2 and that flaws are normally taken at character creation, but if you can get your DM to agree to let you take them at next level up, I'd suggest "Shaky" and Murky Eyed". You can fluff them as "old war wounds"***.
*** If your DM isn't willing to allow you to take flaws after character creation, then throw in a couple of Fighter Levels (meaning 3rd and 4th character levels) to get these feats. You don't, as far as I know, really lose anything.

[eggynack]

Have you considered using water orc as a race instead of orc? Compared to the standard orc they have +2 con, a +1 bonus to attack against fire creatures, a -2 penalty on saving throws against fire creatures, and a swim speed equal to your base land speed. It's mostly just a strict +2 constitution upgrade. You also might want to consider looking through the barbarian handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105525) at some point, if you haven't already.

[Darrin]

#1 The Intimidation build where you intimidate on your attacks and basically demoralize your foes into submission.


Skip it. Although Intimidation optimization can be extremely effective and isn't all that hard to do, it's not very interesting: if it works, then combat is tedious, unexciting drudgery. If it doesn't work, you wasted an entire round when you could have been killing something. And yes, if you pulled this on an inexperienced DM, odds are good that he'd react badly.



#2 The "Uber Charger" build. I like this one a lot more because you basically charge, chop, kill, charge again. It's pretty much simple and straight forward.


The only caveat here is be a bit mindful of how often you use it. If you attack everything with Power Attack maxed out, and wind up dealing 300+ damage on everything you hit, most DMs respond by giving all their creatures 300+ HP, and the rest of the players will hate you for it. So save the big numbers for boss fights.



My question for you is how do I get all the needed feats to make my barbarian awesome like these to builds?


If you already have Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, you're pretty much set. If you can get Spirit Lion Totem, then that takes care of Pounce. If not, pick up Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) at 3rd, Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer) at 6th, and that should be more than enough. Otherwise, Cleave at 3rd, Leap Attack at 6th.

After that, you can pick up more Travel Devotion (you can take it multiple times, and 3/day should be more than adequate for low/mid/high levels).



Do I multi-class into fighter? if so how many levels should I do?


Barbarian 20 is perfectly decent. If you want to do something other than charge + pounce + Power Attack, then dipping two levels of Fighter for Improved Bullrush, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, or Cleave might be worth it to make the lower levels more interesting. Fighter 4 can get you Weapon Focus + Weapon Specialization, which isn't all that strong from an optimization standpoint, but is still nothing to be sneezed at. Don't take more than Fighter 4 unless you're taking the Dungeon Crasher ACF from Dungeonscape.



Also with the charger build should I be multi-classing into Dragoon as well?


No.



I am really confused I see the "cheese" of charging, Power Attack, and Leap Attack to do epic amounts of damage but I really see no way to get the amount of feats I need before reaching level 20 (we hardly ever get that high in a campaign)


Charging + Power Attack + Leap Attack is very simple, and doesn't require a lot of feats. What *else* are you trying to do that you don't have room for? It sounds like you have "Candy Shop Syndrome". We can probably warn you away from a lot of the "fluff" feats that sound cool but don't actually do all that much for you. (For example: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack... these are terrible feats. *NEVER* take these unless you have to.)



If someone has a good barbarian build please show me it in the most SIMPLISTIC form you can. My mind is literally swimming with so many multi-classing and feat combos I cant think straight.


Race: Orc. If your DM is ok with subraces, see if Water Orc (Unearthed Arcana) is available.
1) Barbarian 1. Feat: Power Attack. Spirit Lion Totem -> Pounce, Rage -> Whirling Frenzy.
2) Barbarian 2. Wolf Totem -> Improved Trip.
3) Barbarian 3. Feat: Cleave.
4) Barbarian 4.
5) Barbarian 5. Bonus: Track.
6) Barbarian 6. Feat: Leap Attack.
7) Barbarian 7.
8) Barbarian 8.
9) Barbarian 9. Feat: Travel Devotion.
10) Barbarian 10.
11) Barbarian 11.
12) Barbarian 12. Feat: Improved Bull Rush.
13) Barbarian 13.
14) Barbarian 14.
15) Barbarian 15. Feat: Shock Trooper.
16) Barbarian 16.
17) Barbarian 17.
18) Barbarian 18. Feat: Travel Devotion.
19) Barbarian 19.
20) Barbarian 20.

(If you want to dip into Fighter for two bonus feats, I would recommend Quickdraw and probably Combat Reflexes so you can take Robilar's Gambit later. Quickdraw is for pulling out weaponlike/grenade/alchemical items for those moments when hitting things with your greatsword isn't working so well.)

Skills:

Ask your DM if you can use the Skilled City Dweller ACF from the Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). This lets you swap Tumble for Ride as a class skill. Max out Jump, Listen, and Tumble. If you have points left over, put a couple into Handle Animal and Survival, and consider putting some cross-class ranks into Balance (you want to get up to 5 ranks in Balance so you're not considered flat-footed when balancing). If your DM won't allow you to swap Ride for Tumble, consider buying it cross-class, as it's just too darned useful.

Jump: Although this is important for Leap Attack, it's more important for all your charges. Normally, you can't declare a charge if there's an obstacle in your way. However, if you can jump over the obstacle, then you can still charge.

Listen: It's actually easier to pinpoint invisible creatures with Listen (DC 20 + distance modifiers) than it is to use Spot (DC 40 + distance modifiers).

Tumble: Lets you to move into flanking position or get behind opponents. Get it up high enough, and you can do a lot more with it: stand up from prone as a free action (DC 35), take a 10' step instead of a 5' step (DC 40), negate more falling damage, etc.

Equipment:

Your job is to dish out damage. However, as a melee meatbag, there are many situations where just hitting things harder with your greatsword is going to be difficult or ineffective. If the rest of your party isn't into optimization, it'll be your job to pick up the slack and compensate for tactical weaknesses. While Shax's Indispensible Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) was designed to circumvent just about everything a clever/sadistic DM could throw at you, avoid throwing the entire Shax toolkit at an inexperienced DM. Try to save the really borked stuff (such as Dust Eggshell Grenades) for dire emergencies. That being said, here's a few things you should probably keep handy:

General Utility:

Icewild Lichen Paste
Price: 50 GP
Weight: --
(Secrets of Sarlona p. 138)
Reduces fatigue or exhaustion by a step for 2d4 hours. At the end of that duration, character is fatigued for 2d4 minutes. Multiple doses taken within 24 hours cause 1d4 Constitution damage.

Potion Belt, Masterwork
Price: 60 GP
Weight: 1#
(Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p. 97)
Once per round, you can retrieve a potion as a free action. Holds up to 10 potions. Ask your DM if it can also be used with splash weapons or alchemical flasks.

Shapesand (jug)
Price: 100 GP
Weight: 12#
(Sandstorm p. 102)
Through the exertion of your will (Wisdom check DC 16), you can create any mundane non-magical object out of sand that supposedly "serves as a normal item of the same sort". (So... does that mean I can turn it into 12 lbs of acid or alchemist's fire? How about explosives or poisons? How about a masterwork gatling gun? Hmm...) It retains that shape as long as it stays within 100' of you, but you can also reshape it whenever you like by making another Wisdom check. While the question of acid/explosives/poisons will have to be settled by your DM, you have any tool you can possibly imagine at your fingertips. Need a hammer? Done. Don't need the hammer anymore, need a shovel? Done. It's particularly useful for tools that wear out after a certain number of uses, such as hacksaws and drills. How about exotic weapons or armor (Shapesand Fullplate = 500 GP, shapesand Mechanus Gear = 700 GP)? It can do that, too, although be aware, if an enemy recognizes you're using shapesand, he could try to reshape it under his control with a Wisdom check of his own.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 25

Sundark Goggles
Price: 10 GP
Weight: --
(Races of the Dragon p. 123)
Never take the Daylight Adaptation feat ever again. These handy little shades negate the dazzled penalty for creatures with Light Sensitivity, and also provide a +2 circumstance bonus on saves against gaze attacks. Creatures without low-light or darkvision take a -2 penalty on spot and search checks.

Invisible opponents:

Flour Pouch
Price: 1 SP
Weight: --
(Dungeonscape p. 32)
Thrown as splash weapon, 5' burst. Locates invisible creatures, reduces their concealment to 20%, and reduces their hide bonus. To completely negate concealment, try Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel).

Torch Bug Paste
Price: 25 GP
Weight: --
(Complete Scoundrel p. 120)
Thrown as a splash weapon, non-magical faerie fire effect, which pinpoints invisible creatures and completely negates concealment.

Debuffers/Entanglers/Anti-Flyers:

Eggshell Grenade, Dust
Price: 10 GP
Weight: --
(Oriental Adventures p. 78)
Thrown as a grenade-like weapon, so make a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 5'. A dust grenade that hits its target directly blinds the target for 1d4 rounds *NO SAVE*. Anyone else within the 5' radius splash must make a Fort save DC 10 or be blinded for 1 round. This is an amazingly effective weapon that works on a wide variety of opponents, but don't overuse this one or your DM will come down on you with a banhammer like a ton of bricks.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 20

Lasso
Price: 1 GP
Weight: 3#
(Book of Exalted Deeds p. 34)
Although this is an exotic weapon, ranged touch attacks are usually easy enough to hit even with the non-proficiency penalty. A lasso can partially entangle a creature (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty), but unlike the net there is no size restriction. If you don't have access to flying, can be a great way to bring down a flying opponent or prevent them from kiting you. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (net, tanglefoot, etc.).

Net
Price: 20 GP
Weight: 6#
(PHB)
Although this is an exotic weapon, ranged touch attacks are usually easy enough to hit even with the non-proficiency penalty. A hit with a net entangles a creature (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty, restricts movement), which can be a cheap and easy debuff or delaying tactic. If you're running into larger creatures, use a lasso instead. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (lasso, tanglefoot, etc.). There's also a Razor Net version (50 GP, Dragon Compendium) that does 1d6 damage if the target fails their check to get out of the net (Escape Artist check DC 20 or Strength check DC 25), but it's a little too easy to escape and the razors cut up the net, preventing it from being used again.

Tanglefoot Bag
Price: 50 GP
Weight: 4#
(PHB)
Ranged touch attack that entangles (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty, restricts movement), a chance to immobilize, and makes life difficult for flying creatures. As with the lasso, can be used to bring down flying opponents or keep them from kiting you. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (net, lasso, etc.).
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 25

Battlefield Control:

Liquid Smoke
Price: 20 GP
Weight: 1#
(Oriental Adventures p. 78)
Same price as a smokestick, but reacts with air and thus does not need to be lit. Provides concealment, blocks LOS, or a cheap theatrical effect.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 20

Marbles
Price: 2 SP
Weight: 2#
(Arms & Equipment Guide p. 24)
These are deployed much like caltrops, so it takes a standard action to spread. Basically a 5' x 5' square of non-magical grease. Dump them under an opponent without 5 ranks of Balance to deny his Dex bonus and make the party rogue happy.

Incorporeal/Ethereal Opponents:

Ghostblight
Price: 100 GP
Weight: --
(Complete Adventurer p. 122)
Can be used with a Weapon Capsule Retainer (100 GP, Complete Adventurer) or applied as an oil with a standard action. Used against incorporeal creatures to ignore the 50% miss chance, lasts for 3 rounds. There's a similar substance in Libris Mortis called Ghostoil, but it takes a full round action to apply and only lasts for 2 rounds.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 35

Ghostwall Shellac
Price: 150 GP
Weight: 1#
(Dungeonscape p. 35)
You need about an hour of prep time for this to work, but if you coat this stuff over your weapons and armor, incorporeal and ethereal creatures can't pass through them anymore. That means your weapons should now be able to physically hurt them 100% of the time, and your armor should provide protection from their physical attacks. Note that I did say "should", as it's not entirely clear the designers intended this material to be used this way, and your DM may intepret things differently. Lasts 4d6 hours once applied.

[White_Drake]

Ooh, ooh! Eldariel plug (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105525). Fantastic handbook, and funny, too. Also, Caedrus plug (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809), for the intimidator.

[Keld Denar]

I'd avoid FB. They are just plain annoying to DM for. You'll either end up dead, or killing your party. They do so much damage that they are almost impossible to plan for since anything with an open charge lane can be killed, upto and including the Tarrasque.

As a DM, I also really hate Shocktrooper. It takes all of the risk vs reward out of Power Attack, which is bad considering how many PA multipliers there are out there. It also leaves you very vulnerable to counter attack. While most people state that "foes that want to hit you can hit you on a 2+, so AC doesn't matter", and that IS true to a certain degree, what it really means is that any foes with Power Attack are now free to PA you without fear of missing since they can hit YOU will full PA and not have to worry about their own ACs. As a DM, I give nearly all of my monsters PA intentionally to punish them for neglecting their ACs. So sure, having an AC of -4 doesn't matter for something without PA, but having a dragon attack you 6 times with full PA even with only 1:1 PA is still gonna hurt. You're look at the difference between 80ish damage and 200ish damage in a full attack, depending on the foe. At least with some armor, you have something to prevent foes from PAing you for full, thereby using your armor to prevent damage.

I would definitely consult with your DM before taking Shocktrooper. It is really a game changing feat that can have some very nasty consequences for you and your DM.

[eggynack]

Skip it. Although Intimidation optimization can be extremely effective and isn't all that hard to do, it's not very interesting: if it works, then combat is tedious, unexciting drudgery. If it doesn't work, you wasted an entire round when you could have been killing something. And yes, if you pulled this on an inexperienced DM, odds are good that he'd react badly.

Psh, a good barbarian intimidation build doesn't take a round to use the ability at all. You combine intimidating rage, imperious command, instantaneous rage, and never outnumbered, and the combination means that you're demoralizing everyone nearby by taking actions you would have taken anyway. In fact, the combination is basically death for anyone who becomes demoralized. Intimidating rage means that you can intimidate by just activating rage, which is something you're going to do anyway. Never outnumbered means that your intimidation effect hits everyone in a ten foot radius, which might be a lot of people given that you just ran headfirst into melee. Imperious command means that everyone who would otherwise be merely shaken all combat through intimidating rage, is now cowering for a round prior to that. Instantaneous rage means that the barbarian can do all of that whenever the hell he wants. That's pretty sweet by my view.

Also, there are some issues with your build. For example, you take travel devotion twice, when you should logically take it zero times because of pounce. More importantly, levels of barbarian after two don't really do anything. You can get much better results through multiclassing or prestige classing. If casting weren't off the table, I would probably use the ever beautiful runescarred berserker, but I suppose the standard flurry of dips can suffice.

[Darrin]

You combine intimidating rage, imperious command, instantaneous rage, and never outnumbered, and the combination means that you're demoralizing everyone nearby by taking actions you would have taken anyway.


While this is undeniably a very sweet and effective Intimidation build, it's also absolutely boring. Every fight is either "We win before the first attack roll" or "Oh look, nothing but undead, constructs, and mindless vermin." Throw that against most DMs (even experienced ones), and its likely they won't be able to figure out how to throw meaningful challenges at the party or give up trying.

(With an Instant Rage/Demoralize build, I'd also be worried that I threw so many eggs in the Rage basket that I'm pretty thin on dealing with opponents that are immune to mind/fear effects.)



Also, there are some issues with your build. For example, you take travel devotion twice, when you should logically take it zero times because of pounce.


Not so. In fact, Travel Devotion is even more wicked-awesome because you have Pounce. You can't depend on having a chargeable target every single round. Travel Devotion fixes that:

Round 1) Swift action, activate Travel Devotion. Full-round action, Charge.
Round 2) Swift action, back up 10' to 30'. Full-round action, Charge.
Round 3) Rinse & Repeat until Round 10.



More importantly, levels of barbarian after two don't really do anything. You can get much better results through multiclassing or prestige classing. If casting weren't off the table, I would probably use the ever beautiful runescarred berserker, but I suppose the standard flurry of dips can suffice.

Read the OP. He wanted simple. I gave him the complicated multiclassing stuff in his previous post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284864) (although I could have made it much, much worse). Although Spirit Lion Totem/Wolf Totem strip out a lot of the Barbarian's class abilities, he still gets DR, additional rage, full BAB, and 4 skill points. If the rest of the group is not optimizing, then Barbarian 20 should be more than decently effective.

[Warren Peace]

In the future if you are curious about the ACFs that people mention, here is a list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III).

Diping into Fighter is fine, though depending on exactly which feats you need, Ranger is acceptable too (Endurance for example). How many levels is really dependent on how many feats you need. I have no idea what Dragoon class is from so I can't comment on it.

Many people are put off by the idea of a character who can run up and kill a level appropriate threat in one round. If you optimize a character to do this, your DM is likely to increase the number of enemies you encounter, include difficult terrain that disallows charging or resorts to tactics that negate charging, such as readying an action and using a 5-foot step.

I will also take the time to point out the inherent danger in playing a Frenzied Berzerker. While the class may seem like a blast, there is a very real chance you will end up killing a party member(s) and end up with some bad blood between you and other players. Should you go with this class, I strongly recommend you go with as many Will save boosts as you can manage.
Thank you for the information I agree with a lot of it. I know my DM since I've actuallythel been the DM for 90% of our campaigns I kinda trained him. Anyway I know that he would rather me dish out melee damage and have me kill off weaker or mid level creatures fast than to put up with me using all sorts of effects that alter many foes at once. He doesn't mind high melee damage but when it comes to stuns and mind altering effects he gets kinda mad lol he has no problem throwing more monsters at us.

The frenzied berserker is actually playable in my campaign (although I do need the will buffs from items etc.) But we have two sneaky rogues, a spell casting Bard, and a Scout and a monk. The only ones up in the Frey of combat are myself and the monk and my other character is a Druid so we aren't too worried about me killing them. But hey even if I do it makes for some funny stories later :P

Thanks again though :)

[Waker]

Well, one feat you should definitely consider if you go FB is Steadfast Endurance from PHBII. It lets you add your Con bonus to Will saves, which of course would increase when you rage, also making it so natural 1s on Fortitude saves aren't automatic failures.

[Warren Peace]

Psh, a good barbarian intimidation build doesn't take a round to use the ability at all. You combine intimidating rage, imperious command, instantaneous rage, and never outnumbered, and the combination means that you're demoralizing everyone nearby by taking actions you would have taken anyway. In fact, the combination is basically death for anyone who becomes demoralized. Intimidating rage means that you can intimidate by just activating rage, which is something you're going to do anyway. Never outnumbered means that your intimidation effect hits everyone in a ten foot radius, which might be a lot of people given that you just ran headfirst into melee. Imperious command means that everyone who would otherwise be merely shaken all combat through intimidating rage, is now cowering for a round prior to that. Instantaneous rage means that the barbarian can do all of that whenever the hell he wants. That's pretty sweet by my view.

Also, there are some issues with your build. For example, you take travel devotion twice, when you should logically take it zero times because of pounce. More importantly, levels of barbarian after two don't really do anything. You can get much better results through multiclassing or prestige classing. If casting weren't off the table, I would probably use the ever beautiful runescarred berserker, but I suppose the standard flurry of dips can suffice.
Question, why is the runescared berserker so good? so many people talk about it and I really am not seeing how awesome he is since you can just use FB to do even more damage and with the right will save items etc. you will out damage the runescarred.

[Warren Peace]

Skip it. Although Intimidation optimization can be extremely effective and isn't all that hard to do, it's not very interesting: if it works, then combat is tedious, unexciting drudgery. If it doesn't work, you wasted an entire round when you could have been killing something. And yes, if you pulled this on an inexperienced DM, odds are good that he'd react badly.



The only caveat here is be a bit mindful of how often you use it. If you attack everything with Power Attack maxed out, and wind up dealing 300+ damage on everything you hit, most DMs respond by giving all their creatures 300+ HP, and the rest of the players will hate you for it. So save the big numbers for boss fights.



If you already have Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, you're pretty much set. If you can get Spirit Lion Totem, then that takes care of Pounce. If not, pick up Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) at 3rd, Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer) at 6th, and that should be more than enough. Otherwise, Cleave at 3rd, Leap Attack at 6th.

After that, you can pick up more Travel Devotion (you can take it multiple times, and 3/day should be more than adequate for low/mid/high levels).



Barbarian 20 is perfectly decent. If you want to do something other than charge + pounce + Power Attack, then dipping two levels of Fighter for Improved Bullrush, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, or Cleave might be worth it to make the lower levels more interesting. Fighter 4 can get you Weapon Focus + Weapon Specialization, which isn't all that strong from an optimization standpoint, but is still nothing to be sneezed at. Don't take more than Fighter 4 unless you're taking the Dungeon Crasher ACF from Dungeonscape.



No.



Charging + Power Attack + Leap Attack is very simple, and doesn't require a lot of feats. What *else* are you trying to do that you don't have room for? It sounds like you have "Candy Shop Syndrome". We can probably warn you away from a lot of the "fluff" feats that sound cool but don't actually do all that much for you. (For example: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack... these are terrible feats. *NEVER* take these unless you have to.)



Race: Orc. If your DM is ok with subraces, see if Water Orc (Unearthed Arcana) is available.
1) Barbarian 1. Feat: Power Attack. Spirit Lion Totem -> Pounce, Rage -> Whirling Frenzy.
2) Barbarian 2. Wolf Totem -> Improved Trip.
3) Barbarian 3. Feat: Cleave.
4) Barbarian 4.
5) Barbarian 5. Bonus: Track.
6) Barbarian 6. Feat: Leap Attack.
7) Barbarian 7.
8) Barbarian 8.
9) Barbarian 9. Feat: Travel Devotion.
10) Barbarian 10.
11) Barbarian 11.
12) Barbarian 12. Feat: Improved Bull Rush.
13) Barbarian 13.
14) Barbarian 14.
15) Barbarian 15. Feat: Shock Trooper.
16) Barbarian 16.
17) Barbarian 17.
18) Barbarian 18. Feat: Travel Devotion.
19) Barbarian 19.
20) Barbarian 20.

(If you want to dip into Fighter for two bonus feats, I would recommend Quickdraw and probably Combat Reflexes so you can take Robilar's Gambit later. Quickdraw is for pulling out weaponlike/grenade/alchemical items for those moments when hitting things with your greatsword isn't working so well.)

Skills:

Ask your DM if you can use the Skilled City Dweller ACF from the Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). This lets you swap Tumble for Ride as a class skill. Max out Jump, Listen, and Tumble. If you have points left over, put a couple into Handle Animal and Survival, and consider putting some cross-class ranks into Balance (you want to get up to 5 ranks in Balance so you're not considered flat-footed when balancing). If your DM won't allow you to swap Ride for Tumble, consider buying it cross-class, as it's just too darned useful.

Jump: Although this is important for Leap Attack, it's more important for all your charges. Normally, you can't declare a charge if there's an obstacle in your way. However, if you can jump over the obstacle, then you can still charge.

Listen: It's actually easier to pinpoint invisible creatures with Listen (DC 20 + distance modifiers) than it is to use Spot (DC 40 + distance modifiers).

Tumble: Lets you to move into flanking position or get behind opponents. Get it up high enough, and you can do a lot more with it: stand up from prone as a free action (DC 35), take a 10' step instead of a 5' step (DC 40), negate more falling damage, etc.

Equipment:

Your job is to dish out damage. However, as a melee meatbag, there are many situations where just hitting things harder with your greatsword is going to be difficult or ineffective. If the rest of your party isn't into optimization, it'll be your job to pick up the slack and compensate for tactical weaknesses. While Shax's Indispensible Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) was designed to circumvent just about everything a clever/sadistic DM could throw at you, avoid throwing the entire Shax toolkit at an inexperienced DM. Try to save the really borked stuff (such as Dust Eggshell Grenades) for dire emergencies. That being said, here's a few things you should probably keep handy:

General Utility:

Icewild Lichen Paste
Price: 50 GP
Weight: --
(Secrets of Sarlona p. 138)
Reduces fatigue or exhaustion by a step for 2d4 hours. At the end of that duration, character is fatigued for 2d4 minutes. Multiple doses taken within 24 hours cause 1d4 Constitution damage.

Potion Belt, Masterwork
Price: 60 GP
Weight: 1#
(Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p. 97)
Once per round, you can retrieve a potion as a free action. Holds up to 10 potions. Ask your DM if it can also be used with splash weapons or alchemical flasks.

Shapesand (jug)
Price: 100 GP
Weight: 12#
(Sandstorm p. 102)
Through the exertion of your will (Wisdom check DC 16), you can create any mundane non-magical object out of sand that supposedly "serves as a normal item of the same sort". (So... does that mean I can turn it into 12 lbs of acid or alchemist's fire? How about explosives or poisons? How about a masterwork gatling gun? Hmm...) It retains that shape as long as it stays within 100' of you, but you can also reshape it whenever you like by making another Wisdom check. While the question of acid/explosives/poisons will have to be settled by your DM, you have any tool you can possibly imagine at your fingertips. Need a hammer? Done. Don't need the hammer anymore, need a shovel? Done. It's particularly useful for tools that wear out after a certain number of uses, such as hacksaws and drills. How about exotic weapons or armor (Shapesand Fullplate = 500 GP, shapesand Mechanus Gear = 700 GP)? It can do that, too, although be aware, if an enemy recognizes you're using shapesand, he could try to reshape it under his control with a Wisdom check of his own.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 25

Sundark Goggles
Price: 10 GP
Weight: --
(Races of the Dragon p. 123)
Never take the Daylight Adaptation feat ever again. These handy little shades negate the dazzled penalty for creatures with Light Sensitivity, and also provide a +2 circumstance bonus on saves against gaze attacks. Creatures without low-light or darkvision take a -2 penalty on spot and search checks.

Invisible opponents:

Flour Pouch
Price: 1 SP
Weight: --
(Dungeonscape p. 32)
Thrown as splash weapon, 5' burst. Locates invisible creatures, reduces their concealment to 20%, and reduces their hide bonus. To completely negate concealment, try Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel).

Torch Bug Paste
Price: 25 GP
Weight: --
(Complete Scoundrel p. 120)
Thrown as a splash weapon, non-magical faerie fire effect, which pinpoints invisible creatures and completely negates concealment.

Debuffers/Entanglers/Anti-Flyers:

Eggshell Grenade, Dust
Price: 10 GP
Weight: --
(Oriental Adventures p. 78)
Thrown as a grenade-like weapon, so make a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 5'. A dust grenade that hits its target directly blinds the target for 1d4 rounds *NO SAVE*. Anyone else within the 5' radius splash must make a Fort save DC 10 or be blinded for 1 round. This is an amazingly effective weapon that works on a wide variety of opponents, but don't overuse this one or your DM will come down on you with a banhammer like a ton of bricks.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 20

Lasso
Price: 1 GP
Weight: 3#
(Book of Exalted Deeds p. 34)
Although this is an exotic weapon, ranged touch attacks are usually easy enough to hit even with the non-proficiency penalty. A lasso can partially entangle a creature (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty), but unlike the net there is no size restriction. If you don't have access to flying, can be a great way to bring down a flying opponent or prevent them from kiting you. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (net, tanglefoot, etc.).

Net
Price: 20 GP
Weight: 6#
(PHB)
Although this is an exotic weapon, ranged touch attacks are usually easy enough to hit even with the non-proficiency penalty. A hit with a net entangles a creature (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty, restricts movement), which can be a cheap and easy debuff or delaying tactic. If you're running into larger creatures, use a lasso instead. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (lasso, tanglefoot, etc.). There's also a Razor Net version (50 GP, Dragon Compendium) that does 1d6 damage if the target fails their check to get out of the net (Escape Artist check DC 20 or Strength check DC 25), but it's a little too easy to escape and the razors cut up the net, preventing it from being used again.

Tanglefoot Bag
Price: 50 GP
Weight: 4#
(PHB)
Ranged touch attack that entangles (-2 attack penalty, -4 Dex penalty, restricts movement), a chance to immobilize, and makes life difficult for flying creatures. As with the lasso, can be used to bring down flying opponents or keep them from kiting you. Check with your DM if the Dex penalty from multiple sources stack (net, lasso, etc.).
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 25

Battlefield Control:

Liquid Smoke
Price: 20 GP
Weight: 1#
(Oriental Adventures p. 78)
Same price as a smokestick, but reacts with air and thus does not need to be lit. Provides concealment, blocks LOS, or a cheap theatrical effect.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 20

Marbles
Price: 2 SP
Weight: 2#
(Arms & Equipment Guide p. 24)
These are deployed much like caltrops, so it takes a standard action to spread. Basically a 5' x 5' square of non-magical grease. Dump them under an opponent without 5 ranks of Balance to deny his Dex bonus and make the party rogue happy.

Incorporeal/Ethereal Opponents:

Ghostblight
Price: 100 GP
Weight: --
(Complete Adventurer p. 122)
Can be used with a Weapon Capsule Retainer (100 GP, Complete Adventurer) or applied as an oil with a standard action. Used against incorporeal creatures to ignore the 50% miss chance, lasts for 3 rounds. There's a similar substance in Libris Mortis called Ghostoil, but it takes a full round action to apply and only lasts for 2 rounds.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 35

Ghostwall Shellac
Price: 150 GP
Weight: 1#
(Dungeonscape p. 35)
You need about an hour of prep time for this to work, but if you coat this stuff over your weapons and armor, incorporeal and ethereal creatures can't pass through them anymore. That means your weapons should now be able to physically hurt them 100% of the time, and your armor should provide protection from their physical attacks. Note that I did say "should", as it's not entirely clear the designers intended this material to be used this way, and your DM may intepret things differently. Lasts 4d6 hours once applied.

THANK YOU! Once again you have given me a lot of amazing information and it's exactly what I needed. I wish I could do the complicated multi classing into various different books and such but like I said I would hate to be level 5 ready to multi class at level 6 and he suddenly not let me and ruin everything =/

I think the Barbarian and 4 Fighter dip will suffice to get me all the feats I need and allow for a lot of interesting plays. The intimidation build is exactly like you were saying, Good, but boring. And if I spam it every round or every encounter my DM will retaliate way more harshly than just seeing me pound things into dust with simple melee. Thanks again for all the items too I can't believe just how simple and effective flour is for revealing invisible foes... I feel so stupid not realizing that before =P And the potions belt is just tops I really love that for the charger build.

Once again thank you for your time it is greatly appreciated!

[Darrin]

Question, why is the runescared berserker so good? so many people talk about it and I really am not seeing how awesome he is since you can just use FB to do even more damage and with the right will save items etc. you will out damage the runescarred.

Flexibility. Runescarred Berserker gets spells, which allows you to deal with a great many things where hitting it with your greatsword doesn't work so well. It has a very effective spell list (death ward, freedom of movement, haste, improved invisibility, stoneskin, antimagic field, heal, polymorph) without sacrificing BAB or HP (d10). Going into Runescarred Berserker isn't about doing more damage than the FB, it's about dealing with threats/obstacles that ignore or don't care about HP damage.

[eggynack]

I'm not even sure if the frenzied berserker outdamages the runescarred berserker in a meaningful way. At a certain point, the marginal benefit of dealing more damage collapses to zero, because you're killing the enemy no matter what. Runescarred berserker increases your versatility, but more importantly, frenzied berserker decreases your versatility. He just has to attack, and keep attacking, and you have to invest into not killing everyone. Also, as Darrin mentioned, frigging anti-magic field. Anti-magic field on a barbarian is just a beautiful thing. I get all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.