Using Suggestion on PCs

[beshears]

I've built a villain that is pretty heavily relying on the necrotic cyst spells. most of my party is encysted, although they don't all know it. I want to use necrotic domination on them, but if the pass the DC I'm not sure how to handle using a spell like suggestion on a pc. any suggestions (pun intended)?

[00dlez]

It really depends on the players (not PCs) themselves and really comes down to the groups playstyle and how good of role players/mature they really are (it sounds snooty of me to say it like that, but it's kind of true)

Let me put it like this, you try to put a suggestion spell on a PC and it works... You tell the player what the suggestion is and they will either play along and act in accordance with the negative effects, or they will spend the next 30 minutes trying to lawyer you and work around your language and the spell RAW to ignore the negative effect. Ask yourself very seriously what you think your players will do... If it's going to be pain, just find a different effect, it won't be worth it.

[beshears]

I was considering having them black out and dictate their actions for them (ie, the suggestion is jump off the deck of a boat, they wake up in the water a few minutes later). it seems reasonable as long as I keep the commands simple.

[Flickerdart]

Party-wide blackout works when the entire party is dominated, but a suggestion is not a dominate effect. The phrasing has to be reasonable in the first place, so you could tell the PCs something like "your keen senses pick up something that nobody else does - this boat is about to explode, and the only escape is diving into the water!" and they will probably do it. When the boat doesn't explode they won't be too pleased, but then you can just wiggle your fingers and say that a wizard did it.

[beshears]

I like that idea. I'm not a terribly good liar, but that does sound like a better way to run it.

[Blaknic]

As a previous poster mentioned, this situation really does depend on your group. What has worked best for me is the ancient tradition of passing notes- You hand a note to the PC who is being suggested informing them of their ailment, then they roleplay it out and behave accordingly. Dunno if that would work for you- if not, you can always give them the inaccurate information that their characters have.

[00dlez]

I'm not a fan of giving inaccurate information - for the same reason they might not act the way you think they should and can ignore the effects of the spell, well, by simply ignoring them.

"You're keen senses tell you that the boat is about to explode"

"Cool. I attack the wizard."

Depriving the players control of their characters should only be done if they've proven that they cant be trusted to "play it right" in the past. Black-out isn't a terrible way to go, but do it sparingly otherwise the railroad can get very straight and less senic

[Flickerdart]

"You're keen senses tell you that the boat is about to explode"

"Cool. I attack the wizard."
And then the boat explodes. Faking them out only works if you mix it in with truths, naturally.

[Rakoa]

And then the boat explodes. Faking them out only works if you mix it in with truths, naturally.

Exactly. If the party eventually becomes super paranoid and can't trust their senses or each other due to these strange, mental compulsions that are messing with them, things can quickly become intense.

Is the boat about to explode? Did you really just see the through the disguise of the Doppelganger pretending to be the Wizard, or is that the Wizard? Did he really just die, or do I think that he just died?

All kinds of questions will pop up if you mix up truth and deceptions. If the players don't know what to trust, all the better. That's how fighting a BBEG like that should go.

[Fouredged Sword]

For suggestion you say "The words of the villain take on a convincing tone, you cannot find fault in his reasoning. What do you do?" and then tell the player the framework his action must fall in based on the wording of the suggestion. IE, if the suggestion was to jump off the boat he must do so.

For dominate you pass the player a note "An otherworldly force from within controls you, you have no ability to control your actions!" and roll the DC 15 sense motive for everyone else. Then you pass that player notes telling him what his character does each round.

[Flickerdart]

Is the boat about to explode? Did you really just see the through the disguise of the Doppelganger pretending to be the Wizard, or is that the Wizard? Did he really just die, or do I think that he just died?
Does he know I know he knows I know she knows his dog knows that I know that he died?

[beshears]

I like the idea of lying to them. in theory they could disobey it, but it seems to be much more in the spirit of the spell. you could even carry through the boat exploding within the spell, and have them be stunned by the explosion they're convinced that just hit them.