Please help protect my creation from the sun!

[unseenmage]

DM handed my artificer 600 feet of shadesteel chain and 120 shadesteel manacles as treasure. (someone sank a city into the Underdark overnight and we were tasked with rescuing the inhabitants)
After the adventure we worked out that, as a material property, they duplicate antimagic shacles in that only a creature bound by them has it's magic shut off.

The kicker is that we found these in the Underdark and as a material from the plane of Shadow they disintegrate in sunlight.

Because of this their market price differs depending on where I sell them. each 10 foot of chain and set of manacles are worth 275gp on the surface and 5,500gp in the Underdark.

How do I protect this stuff so i can use it on the surface? As it's non-magical material I'd like to animate objects it and have it enwrap my enemies.
But I'm afraid that if I just cast darkness on it it either won't prove effective against full sunlight or will get dispelled leaving me out on a load of potential cash.

I'd rather utilize it than cash it in especially considering the types of customers I'd attract selling shadow-plane antimagic shackles.


Thanks regardless playgrounders.

Edit: Holy-haystacks batman, what size animated object would all that chain and shackles add up to anyway?!?

[Lightlawbliss]

crazy thought: is there anything u can cover the links and all with without blocking the desired properties?

[unseenmage]

I don't know? Is there precedent or rules for coating chain in paint? How to keep the paint from wearing off either over time or mid-combat?

[Lightlawbliss]

paint? might work. I was thinking something more like a thin layer of metal or something that wouldn't overly care about the abuse.

edit: lining one material with another is a rather common modern day practice to protect the "core"

[unseenmage]

Sadly, as this is a Faerun game and not an Eberron game I doubt such a modern day practice would cut it but I'll definitely ask.

I was hoping more for wizardly advice on how to protect the animated-shade-chains-in-a-shroud-of-darkness thing from getting dispelled. We're ECL 9-11 if that helps.

[Lightlawbliss]

using magic to shape metal around a chain shouldn't be to hard. worst case it takes 1 casting per link

[graymachine]

I'd just sell it; sounds like the DM is counting on it being tempting to keep.

[unseenmage]

I guess Fabricate should be able to do that really. The big question now is, as you've mentioned, will it interfere with the material properties of the shadesteel...

If I was DMing me at this point I'd say the idea's a no-go. Then again by the rules the only substance I know of that stops magic and magic-esque effects is lead lining for your walls from the SBG.

Suggestions welcome as to solving this facet of the conundrum. If nothing else I might work in a Contingency spell that Fabricates the chain coating in response to dispel or antimagic effects and sunlight.


Any thoughts on what would happen if I were to use this stuff to build a Chain Golem?

[drack]

Use lead, dirt cheap stuff. :smallwink:

[angry_bear]

Just using rough math off the top of my head, I think you've got enough to build a golem. What you can do with that is, either give the golem a magical item that places it in a perpetual state of Darkness, I also vaguely remember a spell that protects vampires from daylight called Mantle of the Night or something... With a nice DM it could be used for your golem. I think the spell is in Lords of Darkness.

[unseenmage]

angry_bear
Re: Please help protect my creation from the sun!
Just using rough math off the top of my head, I think you've got enough to build a golem. What you can do with that is, either give the golem a magical item that places it in a perpetual state of Darkness, I also vaguely remember a spell that protects vampires from daylight called Mantle of the Night or something... With a nice DM it could be used for your golem. I think the spell is in Lords of Darkness.

THANK YOU! That's almost exactly what I was looking for. Seems like it won't be dispelled by any simple Light spell and it even sidesteps that unsightly sphere of darkness I was envisioning. And the spell description even says "any creature normally harmed by exposure to the sun" so it looks like it'll work on my animated object.

However, as for the Golem idea, I seem to remember somewhere it says that golems basic materials become 'golem-stuff' and cease being their original material. To the point that even warforged aren't smeltable and decay at the same rate as a human corpse.
It's part of why Rust Monsters havn't just eaten every metal golem in existence.

Then again, maybe I have the makings of a nice quest to re-discover the method for creating Shadesteel Golems instead.

[unseenmage]

All right, thank you to everyone for their answers and suggestions.

Just one last hurdle before I run off and ask my DM if a variant Golem is to be had instead...

What category of Animated Object construct creature would I get out of 1,080 lbs worth of 600' of chain and 120 manacles? What caster Level would I need to animate the whole thing?

[drack]

Probably huge or gargantuin. Recall it needn't be solidly as large as a humanoid of the same size category for animate object. take for example animated rugs. Quite small, yet large size categories. :smallbiggrin: Still you could pobably break it up too.

[unseenmage]

I'm definitely having some trouble adjudicating the volume of a pile of chain.

And it's not just the Animate Objects problem, what about Hardening or Augment Object? How many castings will I need to cover the whole of the thing.

Will one Contingent Fabricate be enough to encase the chain in lead should the need arise? (figure I'll have the creature wear some lead chain bling for the fabricate to target)

Another thing, do I get a better benefit out of one great big Animated Object or out of many smaller ones?

(it's no wonder no one spams Animate Objects despite it's obvious awesomeness as a spell that turns your environment into creatures with Hardness, ugh)

[drack]

First steep is asking the GM about chain thickness as I don't know the density of shadesteel offhand :smalltongue: If it's fine as a thread the whole lump fits in one hand. If it's a foot thick then that stuff is made for dragons, and will probably be huge. In either case I'd assume one augment object would be enough until you hear otherwise.

[Lightlawbliss]

...
Another thing, do I get a better benefit out of one great big Animated Object or out of many smaller ones?

(it's no wonder no one spams Animate Objects despite it's obvious awesomeness as a spell that turns your environment into creatures with Hardness, ugh)
The benefit depends on many factors (as with all things), including (but not limited to) things like your build, the rest of your party, and what the DM wants to throw at you.

for example: a huge construct isn't very useful in a 5 by 5 tunnel, but a lot of small constructs are more vulnerable to aoe attacks.

[unseenmage]

The shadesteel chains and shackles were used to bind medium humanoids in a chain gang.

600 feet of chain and 120 manacles weighing 1,080 pounds in total. Shadesteel was extrapolated from iron items of the same dimensions. Chain in 10 foot increments and manacles as in the PH.

The shadesteel is slightly lighter than iron (x0.75) but creatures bound by it feel that multiplier as an increase instead of a decrease in addition to being affected as though by Antimagic Shackles. Hardness 15, hp 15, and break DC 26 per 10 foot of chain or per manacles. Escape DC 20 for the chain (or vs use rope check) and 30 for manacles.

Does that help?

[drack]

You have ~3 cubic feet of shadesteel. Due to the shape it probably takes up 4-5 cubic feet.

[unseenmage]

You have ~3 cubic feet of shadesteel. Due to the shape it probably takes up 4-5 cubic feet.

Thanks for that, but if I may, how did you arrive at that particular number.

To the math illiterate, like myself, it sounds almost arbitrary.
No offense, I'm just curious is all.

[Lightlawbliss]

density of iron is 491 lb/ft^3 (http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magconda.htm)

u said 1080 lbs of a material 3/4 the density of iron

1080/(491*.75)=1080/368.25=2.93 or about 3 cubic feet

chain is not solid metal however, nor or the manicals. This increases size.

[drack]

iron density is a little under 500lb/ft^3 You said it was lighter then iron, so divide weight ~1000 by density ~500, that gives 2, and since I'm oversimplifying the numbers and it's a little bigger I figured with the /.75 for density gap between shade-steel and iron it's about 3. Accounting for the funny volume of chain is indeed rather arbitrary, but stored chain doesn't have much air in it, so it' probably around double (the number was still a bit shy of 3, and I figure it's probably one of the older blockier designs that tends to pack a little more nicely, so I went for lower range doubling.

Edit: ... or you could ninja me with real math and steal the magic fom the magic number. :smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

Wow, thank you both very much. That was very informative. Too bad Animate Objects doesn't have a 'by cubic feet' variable like Fabricate and Hardening do.

Speaking of Animate Objects, I figure that each unit of 10 feet of Chain is a single item (as per the PH equipment section) as is each Manacles. They're equal in hardness, hp, and break DC so equal in size is no leap.

SO the real question is are these items tiny or small objects on the creature size chart? Cuz I've got 180 of them to animate.

[drack]

I'd call them small or even medium. Think of how it'll move and use that for space/reach, I'd assume like a snake, and a 10' snake has larger reach then most house cats. :smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

drack
Re: Please help protect my creation from the sun!
I'd call them small or even medium. Think of how it'll move and use that for space/reach, I'd assume like a snake, and a 10' snake has larger reach then most house cats.

Agreed. It occurs to me that the final limiter is the CL for the Animate Objects spell. Not that I'll be able to max it out often if at all but how high can one reasonably go pre-epic? How many of these can reasonably be animated at once? At 10th level? At 15th? At 20th?

[Spuddles]

Soveriegn glue irrevocably bonds to things together. You could coat each link of chain with a thin layer of the glue, then cover it in adamantine dust. Or obdurium. I think that stuff is 50% harder than adamantium.

[drack]

I run an epic nations game, so when my players first start asking about CL I just redirect them to this. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level

It's a nice place to get a feel for the mechanics, though as mot people know, the best way is to feel around and see what you're most comfortable with using. At the end of the day it comes down to how much you want to invest in it.

[unseenmage]

Soveriegn glue irrevocably bonds to things together. You could coat each link of chain with a thin layer of the glue, then cover it in adamantine dust. Or obdurium. I think that stuff is 50% harder than adamantium.

That, is an excellent excellent idea. I was tentatively considering Sovereign Glue but I hadn't thought of using DUST! That's just awesome. Thanks for the idea.



I run an epic nations game, so when my players first start asking about CL I just redirect them to this. http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...g_Caster_Level

It's a nice place to get a feel for the mechanics, though as mot people know, the best way is to feel around and see what you're most comfortable with using. At the end of the day it comes down to how much you want to invest in it.

I was just perusing that list last night before bed. Think the most I added up from stackable, type appropriate bonuses was what 36? Then I saw a couple that read like they would let me multiply that by 1.5 twice so that could (if it works that way) give me CL 80.

After fiddling with that I realized that I simply have enough of these things that I can animate as many in as large a configuration as a given situation requires.

Thanks again for all your help everyone. You've helped me reclaim my understanding of a few core concepts of spells in 3.5, and Animate Objects specifically.

[drack]

I'd be careful with some of those multiples though. consumptive field eats people to fuel it, and node magic requires 1year/CL mod. in the end they're rather constraining. :smallbiggrin:

[unseenmage]

Well it's an Artificer so lead time on engaging in adventuring activities is always a premium.

[drack]

So when doubling your CL80 you have 80 years down time between adventures? XD Talk about a vacation man.

[unseenmage]

No, but you make a good point.

Definitely going to have to work in that multiplier at an earlier point in the progression.

[Skeppio]

Any thoughts on what would happen if I were to use this stuff to build a Chain Golem?

At least in the monster entry, creation of Chain Golems is a secret zealously guarded and kept secret by the Kytons, aka Chain Devils, and as such the golems are generally not intended to be built by players.

[unseenmage]

At least in the monster entry, creation of Chain Golems is a secret zealously guarded and kept secret by the Kytons, aka Chain Devils, and as such the golems are generally not intended to be built by players.

Oooh! Even better! Now I can potentially research the secret to Shadesteel Golems AND the secret to Chain Golems!

But seriously, thanks for that. I'd forgotten that Chain Golems were on the super secret list of 'Golems PC was not meant to know'.