my TO super template

[Immabozo]

So I have been working on a +1 LA template and then applying it to a sample character and then another optimized +3 LA +1 RHD lycanthrope template on top. I was a little more excited about re-doing this one than the symbiote template the I posted.

So there was a bit of a disagreement over whether or not the type pyramid is still valid, so I will present my build in two forms. One that respects the type pyramid, one that does not.

Ignoring the type pyramid

Human Type: monstrous humanoid

Paragon Half Amethyst, half-battle, half-brown, half-chaos, half-crystal, half-deep, half-emerald, half-ethereal, half-fang, half-howling, half-oceanus, half-pyroclastic, half-radiant, half-rust, half-sapphire, half-shadow, half-song, half-styx, half-tarterian, half-topaz, half-chiang lung, half-li lung, half-lung wang, half-pan lung, half-shen lung, half-T’ien lung, half-tun mi lung, half-yu lung, (Draconomicon, pg 167) half-green, half red, half-gold, half-white, half black, half blue, half-brass, half-bronze, half-gold, half-silver (MM) Multi-headed (40, for a C+ dragon) Great Wyrm Prismatic dragon half troll (“Return to Nature” spell cast x4) Shadow (Manual of the Planes, type changes to magical beast) Tauric (Savage Species) (LA +1, CR +1)

Paragon magebred warbeast natural werephynxkin (LA +3, RHD 1, CR +2)

Level 1 (+4 LA 1 RHD) Medium Aberation
HP: 138 (1D12, max for first HD, +126)
AC: 258 = 10 + 123 natural armor, (74 Force dragon, + (4 AC half dragon x38 = 152), +2 lycanthrope +4 half troll) + 4 (deflecting force, prismatic dragon) + 22 (dex)
Land Speed: 270 Fly Speed: 1570 (clumsy) (normal or hybrid only) Climb: 135 (hybrid or animal only) (paragon x3, shadow x1.5)

Str 418 (Paragon (+15) 38 varieties of half dragon (+8 x 38 = +304 str) Great Wyrm Force dragon (75) half troll (+6), “Return to Nature” spell cast x4 (– 8 str) Tauric,) (Paragon (+15), magebred (+4), warbeast (+3), natural werephynxkin (+4) )

Dex 54 (Paragon (+15) Great Wyrm Prismatic dragon (10) half troll (+2) Tauric) (Paragon (+15) magebred (+2) natural werephynxkin (+2) Return to Nature x4, +8)

Con 262 (Paragon (+15) 38 varieties of half dragon (+2 x 38 = 76) Great Wyrm Force dragon (61 + 80, muti headed) half troll (+6) Tauric) (Paragon (+15) magebred (+2) war beast (+3) natural werephynxkin (+4) )

Int 15
Wis 15
Cha 18

Fort: 127, +43 (base) (+84 con) Ref: 65 +43 (base) (+22 dex) Will: 125 +41 (base) (+84 con)

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/11/11/11/10/10/10/10/9/11; base DC 29 + spell level)0—dancing lights, daze, detect magic, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance; 1st—enlarge person, mage armor, magic missile, shield, true strike, unseen servant; 2nd—alter self, blur, darkness, detect thoughts, levitate; 3rd—blink, fireball, greater magic weapon, haste, tongues, wind wall; 4th—confusion, wall of ice, scrying, stoneskin; 5th— ice storm, dismissal, fabricate, passwall, wall of force; 6th—antimagic field, greater dispel magic, true seeing; 7th—forcecage, sequester, spell turning, greater teleport; 8th—greater planar binding, mass charm monster, symbol of death, temporal stasis; 9th—dominate monster, gate, imprisonment, time stop, wish

Special Qualities: Pounce, DR 25/Epic (or DR 10/silver), SR 86 or CR + 10, Fear DC 89, scent, Deflecting Force (charisma bonus to AC), immune to acid, electricity, fire, cold, force, poison, sonic, sleep, paralysis, confusion/insanity, charms, energy drain, disease, immune to air and water (whatever that means), Fast Healing 20, Dark Vision 60 Feet, Low Light Vision, Curse of Lycanthropy, Alternate Form (Phynxkin or hybrid only), Displacement (50% miss chance), Water breathing, Water Fire (Draconomican pg 167), Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full daylight, a shadow creature can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability, but a daylight spell will, Evasion, 8 HD Mirror Image (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th, 12 HD +2 luck bonus on all saving throws, 16 HD Plane Shift (Sp): 1/day, to or from the Plane of Shadow only. Caster level 15th, 20 HD Cause Fear (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th. The save DC is Charisma-based

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Force Cage, Maze, Otiluke’s Telekenetic Sphere, wall of force Caster level 36 DC 3/day Greater Dispelling, Haste and See Invisibility Caster Level 15

Natural Attacks: 2 claws 1D8 +101, bite 1D8 +101, 2 wings 1D6 +101, tail slap 1D8 +101



Here is my build, if the damn type pyramid is in effect

Paragon Half Amethyst, half-battle, half-brown, half-chaos, half-crystal, half-deep, half-emerald, half-ethereal, half-fang, half-howling, half-oceanus, half-pyroclastic, half-radiant, half-rust, half-sapphire, half-shadow, half-song, half-styx, half-tarterian, half-topaz, half-chiang lung, half-li lung, half-lung wang, half-pan lung, half-shen lung, half-T’ien lung, half-tun mi lung, half-yu lung, (Draconomicon, pg 167) half-green, half red, half-gold, half-white, half black, half blue, half-brass, half-bronze, half-gold, half-silver (MM) Great Wyrm Prismatic dragon, Multiheaded (Savage Species, 40), Greenbound (Lost Empires of Faerun, plant), Blighspawned (Unapproachable East, plant), pseudonatural (ELH, outsider), Dustform (Sandstorm, construct), Incarnate Construct (Savage Species, giant), “Return to Nature” spell cast x5 (leaving creature “medium” size), Incarnate Construct (humanoid), Paragon magebred horrid warbeast afflicted were dire tiger (Humanoid (shapechanger)), Shadow (Manual of the Planes, any corporeal humanoid, among others, type changes to magical beast) Tauric (Savage Species) (LA +1, CR +1)

Paragon magebred warbeast natural werephynxkin (LA +3, RHD 1, CR +2)

Level 1 (+4 LA 1 RHD) Medium Aberation
HP: 96 (1D12, max for first HD, +84)
AC: 80 = 10 + 33 natural armor, (74 Force dragon, + (4 AC half dragon x38 = 152 Incarnate Construct NA 9, +8 were dire tiger, +5 paragon, +4 magebred, +5 horrid, +2 werephynxkin) + 37 (dex)
Land Speed: 540 Fly Speed: 3150 (clumsy) (paragon x3, pseudonatural x2, shadow x1.5)

Str 484 (Paragon (+15) 38 varieties of half dragon (+8 x 38 = +304 str) Great Wyrm Force dragon (75), “Return to Nature” spell cast x4 (– 10 str) Greenbound (+6), blightspawneed (+4), pseudonatural (+22), dustform (+4), (paragon, +15, magebred +4, warbeast, +3, were dire tiger +16), Tauric) (Paragon (+15) magebred (+4) warbeast (+3) natural werephynxkin (+4) )

Dex 75 (Paragon (+15) Great Wyrm Prismatic dragon (10), greenbound (+2), pseudonatural (+10), Dustform (-2) Return to Nature x5, +10, (paragon, +15, magebred +2, were dire tiger +4) Tauric) (Paragon (+15) magebred (+2) natural werephynxkin (+2)

Con 48 (Paragon (+15) 38 varieties of half dragon (+2 x 38 = 76) Great Wyrm Force dragon (61 + 80), greenbound (+4) blightspawneed (+2),, pseudonatural (+10) ) (Paragon (+15) magebred (+2) war beast (+3) natural werephynxkin (+4) ) “-“ con from Dustform, actually rolled 18 for new con (Incarnate Construct), (paragon, +15, magebred +2, horrid +4, warbeast, +3, were dire tiger +6)

Int 15
Wis 15
Cha 18

Fort: 62, +43 (base) (+19 con) Ref: 80 +43 (base) (+37 dex) Will: 60 +41 (base) (+19 con)

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/11/11/11/10/10/10/10/9/11; base DC 29 + spell level)0—dancing lights, daze, detect magic, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance; 1st—enlarge person, mage armor, magic missile, shield, true strike, unseen servant; 2nd—alter self, blur, darkness, detect thoughts, levitate; 3rd—blink, fireball, greater magic weapon, haste, tongues, wind wall; 4th—confusion, wall of ice, scrying, stoneskin; 5th— ice storm, dismissal, fabricate, passwall, wall of force; 6th—antimagic field, greater dispel magic, true seeing; 7th—forcecage, sequester, spell turning, greater teleport; 8th—greater planar binding, mass charm monster, symbol of death, temporal stasis; 9th—dominate monster, gate, imprisonment, time stop, wish

Special Qualities: Alternate form (phynxkin, hybrid, were dire tiger or hybrid, phynxkin hybrid for max benefit), Resistance to cold equal to 5 + 1 per Hit Die, to a maximum of 20. Darkvision 60 feet. Low-light vision. Immune to acid, Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full daylight, a shadow creature can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability, but a daylight spell will. Evasion, 8 HD Mirror Image (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th, 12 HD +2 luck bonus on all saving throws, 16 HD Plane Shift (Sp): 1/day, to or from the Plane of Shadow only. Caster level 15th, 20 HD Cause Fear (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th. The save DC is Charisma-based

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day Greater Dispelling, Haste and See Invisibility Caster Level 15

Natural Attacks: 2 claws 1D8 +101, bite 1D8 +101, 2 wings 1D6 +101, tail slap 1D8 +101


Feel free to poke holes.

EDIT: LA +1, and the lycanthrope template is LA +3 and 3 RHD

[Gnome Alone]

That... is a lot of halves. You're like... 40 people.

[Immabozo]

That... is a lot of halves. You're like... 40 people.

I think the fact that your avatar is what it is, I find infinite amuzement in this!

But to my knowledge RAW doesn't have a disagreement with it!

[Qwertystop]

How do you pack that many templates into that little LA and RHD? Parentheses on what applies under what might be helpful.

[Gnome Alone]

So, this heavily templated, uh, whatever the base creature is, is technically a Level 6 character, RAW? Am I reading something wrong? The eyes, they glaze.
What's this little guy's backstory anyway? Crazy wizard? I'm guessing crazy wizard.

[Occasional Sage]

May we see a Works Cited page, please?

Edit: I really hope "dandwiki" doesn't appear.

[Jeff the Green]

So, this heavily templated, uh, whatever the base creature is, is technically a Level 6 character, RAW? Am I reading something wrong? The eyes, they glaze.
What's this little guy's backstory anyway? Crazy wizard? I'm guessing crazy wizard.

Four. RHD 3 + 1 LA = ECL 4. CR is just for NPCs.

[Spuddles]

Tauric template resets LA in a poorly thought out manner.

[Amnestic]

Tauric template resets LA in a poorly thought out manner.

I'm not seeing that in the Savage Species entry. The only mention of LA under Tauric is in the example, which says:

Level Adjustment: +2 (apply this to the level adjustment of the base humanoid)

So...you take whatever LA the base humanoid had and then add a further +2. Where's the reset coming from? :smallconfused:

[Immabozo]

I'm not seeing that in the Savage Species entry. The only mention of LA under Tauric is in the example, which says:

Level Adjustment: +2 (apply this to the level adjustment of the base humanoid)

So...you take whatever LA the base humanoid had and then add a further +2. Where's the reset coming from? :smallconfused:

no, all that is on the base animal. So it comes to the base humanoid at (my copy of SS says) +1 LA

But all of this is from the rulebooks. MM, SS, LEoF, Fiend Folio, ELH, Sand Storm, Manual of the Planes, SoS, and a little Unapproachable East.

EDIT he means that the LA and RHD of the base animal half in the Tauric Template does not affect the LA or RHD of the base humanoid

[mattie_p]

I'm not seeing that in the Savage Species entry. The only mention of LA under Tauric is in the example, which says:

Level Adjustment: +2 (apply this to the level adjustment of the base humanoid)

So...you take whatever LA the base humanoid had and then add a further +2. Where's the reset coming from? :smallconfused:

I don't know. The base griffon in SS has LA +3. Hobgoblins have an LA of +1. The tauric template example (which we all know are terrible and often violate RAW) is LA +2. The template "how-to" is silent on LA.

Dysfunctional rules FTW! I do want to sit down and review the stacking though... lots of work there.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm not seeing that in the Savage Species entry. The only mention of LA under Tauric is in the example, which says:

Level Adjustment: +2 (apply this to the level adjustment of the base humanoid)

So...you take whatever LA the base humanoid had and then add a further +2. Where's the reset coming from? :smallconfused:

Wait, isn't this another incarnation of his symbiotic thingummy from the other thread.

*rereading*

Oh, I guess not. No, I hope this doesn't work. One abomination was enough. I mean, something like this...I'm sure some god would have hunted it down before it came of age. It's...it's not right.:smallconfused:

[Amnestic]

I don't know. The base griffon in SS has LA +3. Hobgoblins have an LA of +1. The tauric template example (which we all know are terrible and often violate RAW) is LA +2. The template "how-to" is silent on LA.

Dysfunctional rules FTW! I do want to sit down and review the stacking though... lots of work there.

Regardless of them getting the numbers screwed up (WotC screwing numbers? NEVER!) the important part is the text which follows the number. It seems pretty clear - to me at least - that it adds a number (whatever it is) to the existing LA. It doesn't overwrite it.

Unless I'm missing something major, like Tauric being republished elsewhere (possible) or some errata or something.

[Immabozo]

Wait, isn't this another incarnation of his symbiotic thingummy from the other thread.

*rereading*

Oh, I guess not. No, I hope this doesn't work. One abomination was enough. I mean, something like this...I'm sure some god would have hunted it down before it came of age. It's...it's not right.:smallconfused:

haha, good catch. the two came from one idea and upon realize type restrictions that the two wouldn't work together, it gave birth to two separate ideas.

I agree, a funky abomination, but I worked it out on a word program and worked it out over a week or so. I am quite confident it works

[Immabozo]

Unless I'm missing something major, like Tauric being republished elsewhere (possible) or some errata or something.

no, you're not missing anything there. What you're missing is that all those templates are on the base animal, who factors not at all into the LA of Tauric template

[mattie_p]

no, you're not missing anything there. What you're missing is that all those templates are on the base animal, who factors not at all into the LA of Tauric template

Not all of them, no. Well, maybe not. A little help in differentiating between the base humanoid and the base creature would be helpful.

For example, I note you use the Force Dragon as the foundation for your base humanoid in the 2nd monster (at least, I think you do). Force Dragon has no listed LA, which invalidates the whole thing, considering the whole shebang is based off of the base creature and its hit dice and LA.

[Phelix-Mu]

no, you're not missing anything there. What you're missing is that all those templates are on the base animal, who factors not at all into the LA of Tauric template

And so the 45-headed weredracohydra was born. Good luck finding pants to fit that.

[Immabozo]

Not all of them, no. Well, maybe not. A little help in differentiating between the base humanoid and the base creature would be helpful.

For example, I note you use the Force Dragon as the foundation for your base humanoid in the 2nd monster (at least, I think you do). Force Dragon has no listed LA, which invalidates the whole thing, considering the whole shebang is based off of the base creature and its hit dice and LA.

Force Dragon, dragon type, with Half troll (giant type) return to nature x4, (large size), shadow turns it into a magical beats, qualifying for the other half of Tauric.

Respecting the "type pyramid" from SS:

Force Dragon, dragon type, greenbound (plant), pseudonatural (outsider), dustform (construct), Incarnate Construct (giant), Return to Nature Spell 5x (medium size), dustform (construct), Incarnate Construct (humanoid), Shadow (magical beast), qualifying for Tauric template as the magical beast half.

Of course I skipped a few of the templates for simplicity sake, that take advantage of the opportunity for +stats, but doesn't significantly, or at all, affect type.

EDIT: filled a hole I forgot to fill in typing the types

[mattie_p]

Force Dragon, dragon type, with Half troll (giant type) return to nature x4, (large size), shadow turns it into a magical beats, qualifying for the other half of Tauric.

Respecting the "type pyramid" from SS:

Force Dragon, dragon type, greenbound (plant), pseudonatural (outsider), dustform (construct), Incarnate Construct (giant), Return to Nature Spell 5x (medium size), dustform (construct), Incarnate Construct (humanoid), Shadow (magical beast), qualifying for Tauric template as the magical beast half.

See, this is why you need to differentiate between the base humanoid and the base creature. Need some help, here, if we're going to check your work. So please, show your work. Otherwise we'll all throw up our hands and flunk you. :smallwink:

EDIT: per your OP


Great Wyrm Prismatic dragon, Multiheaded (Savage Species, 40), Greenbound (Lost Empires of Faerun, plant)

Greenbound cannot be added to a creature with type: dragon.

2nd EDIT: You know you have to add the creature base HD to the humanoid HD, right? Using an un-altered prismatic dragon as the base creature before stacking all your templates means at least 23 hit dice, not to mention the extra hit dice from all your multi-heads that are no longer present once you take tauric.

Also, by the type pyramid, humanoid (shapechanger) cannot be downgraded to magical beast.

[Immabozo]

See, this is why you need to differentiate between the base humanoid and the base creature. Need some help, here, if we're going to check your work. So please, show your work. Otherwise we'll all throw up our hands and flunk you. :smallwink:

EDIT: per your OP

you're right. I knew I was forgetting something, but long week and over excited to finally be done left me with that.


Greenbound cannot be added to a creature with type: dragon.

2nd EDIT: You know you have to add the creature base HD to the humanoid HD, right? Using an un-altered prismatic dragon as the base creature before stacking all your templates means at least 23 hit dice, not to mention the extra hit dice from all your multi-heads that are no longer present once you take tauric.

I see you are right about greenbound, I'll have to figure out how that worked, I could have sworn it did earlier is week!

Where is the thing about HD written?


Also, by the type pyramid, humanoid (shapechanger) cannot be downgraded to magical beast.

so it is, then a slight change. Wont have as good con or NA, but the str is still over 450.

[mattie_p]

Where is the thing about HD written?

SS p 133. Creating a Tauric Creature:


Hit Dice: Add the base humanoid's and the base creature's Hit Dice to get the tauric creature's Hit Dice...

-- and you are forgetting to add in the racial hit dice for your lycanthrope templates.

Another flaw with that one. You are taking a dragon, dust-forming it, then incarnate construct.

Incarnate construct can be applied to any construct with a generally humanoid form. A multi-headed dragon is not a humanoid form.

OK, I've spent way to much time on this. Get your TO cleaned up, its a mess after my red pen. Try again in a little bit. It'll be alright. You can do better.

[Vaz]

Template Shenanigans. In other news, sky is blue.

[Phelix-Mu]

I have yet to even venture into templates for anything beyond monsters and a few choice npcs. Threads like this don't encourage me to open up this particular Pandora's Box for the players.

If I was going to let players template, any guidelines on reasonable restrictions? I can always start a new thread...but exhaustion is preventing free flow of thought-to-action

[TuggyNE]

I have yet to even venture into templates for anything beyond monsters and a few choice npcs. Threads like this don't encourage me to open up this particular Pandora's Box for the players.

If I was going to let players template, any guidelines on reasonable restrictions? I can always start a new thread...but exhaustion is preventing free flow of thought-to-action

First suggestion: nothing TO should be considered. :smallwink: Second suggestion: there needs to be a plausible explanation for how this came about, and preferably not a ridiculously squicky one either.

[Vaz]

A wizard did it?

[Jack_Simth]

If I was going to let players template, any guidelines on reasonable restrictions? I can always start a new thread...but exhaustion is preventing free flow of thought-to-action
Sure. Nothing that reduces or resets the LA. That... gets rid of the vast majority of abuses (there are still a few offenders left after that, but not many).

[Curmudgeon]

If I was going to let players template, any guidelines on reasonable restrictions?
Mostly you treat them the same way you treat spells: some get special DM attention because they're problematic. So if you've got an approach to a spell line like Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (mine is a requirement for prior personal inspection of an example of every form, confirmed by the relevant Knowledge check), you should have an approach to dealing with templates. One thing I do is get strict about the Humanoids and Class Levels rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels), so any time a template takes a character out of Humanoid type they're stuck with (at least) 1 racial HD of whatever non-Humanoid type. Other aspects of templates get treated the same way you should with flaws: if the flaw is significant enough to be worth a feat, its relevant details will come up at least every couple of levels in the game. So if a template adds the (extraplanar) subtype, there will be a real chance of that PC getting sent to their native plane with Dismissal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dismissal.htm) or whatnot.

In short: if players are going to look for advantages via templates (or spells, or whatever) you should point out that you will read the fine print and make it meaningful in your game.

[TuggyNE]

One thing I do is get strict about the Humanoids and Class Levels rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels), so any time a template takes a character out of Humanoid type they're stuck with (at least) 1 racial HD of whatever non-Humanoid type.

Are you similarly strict about the Advanced Monster Challenge Rating (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#advancedMonsterChallengeRati ng) rule that says the same thing without restrictions on type?

[Jeff the Green]

I have yet to even venture into templates for anything beyond monsters and a few choice npcs. Threads like this don't encourage me to open up this particular Pandora's Box for the players.

If I was going to let players template, any guidelines on reasonable restrictions? I can always start a new thread...but exhaustion is preventing free flow of thought-to-action

You're pretty much fine just saying no tauric, no symbiotic, no incarnate construct, no half-minotaur, no feral, no magic blooded. The first three allow you to get rid of LA at little or no cost; the other two are poorly thought out and overpowered. Very few other templates have problems other than that many are weak for their LA.

[TuggyNE]

Really, templates and metamagic have similar problems; in both cases, the vast majority of options are underpowered without cheese, and in both cases, most of the cheese comes in reducing or eliminating the (spell/character) level adjustments. Furthermore, in both cases there are a few trailing rogues that are problematic even without mitigation (I'm looking at you, Invisible Spell).

[Immabozo]

SS p 133. Creating a Tauric Creature:

-- and you are forgetting to add in the racial hit dice for your lycanthrope templates.

Another flaw with that one. You are taking a dragon, dust-forming it, then incarnate construct.

Incarnate construct can be applied to any construct with a generally humanoid form. A multi-headed dragon is not a humanoid form.

OK, I've spent way to much time on this. Get your TO cleaned up, its a mess after my red pen. Try again in a little bit. It'll be alright. You can do better.

darn, you are very right. I'll try to patch it up, using a different base creature, a few different templates, etc.


You're pretty much fine just saying no tauric, no symbiotic, no incarnate construct, no half-minotaur, no feral, no magic blooded. The first three allow you to get rid of LA at little or no cost; the other two are poorly thought out and overpowered. Very few other templates have problems other than that many are weak for their LA.

Don't forget Mineral Warrior.

The problem with flat out banning Incarnate Construct is that someone can use it without abusing the cheese, such as it was intended to be used, making like a stone golem a playable character. But good luck determining LA. That's where my problem has always been!

[killem2]

The problem with flat out banning Incarnate Construct is that someone can use it without abusing the cheese, such as it was intended to be used, making like a stone golem a playable character. But good luck determining LA. That's where my problem has always been!

What's wrong with just giving the straight hd + abilities with no la? Incarnate Construct Truly obliterates any history of construct that the creature would have otherwise had been.

[Jeff the Green]

Don't forget Mineral Warrior.

Actually, I'm fine with mineral warrior. It's strong, yes, but its benefits are mostly numbers, and the numbers aren't that high.


The problem with flat out banning Incarnate Construct is that someone can use it without abusing the cheese, such as it was intended to be used, making like a stone golem a playable character. But good luck determining LA. That's where my problem has always been!

See, that's the problem. I'd much rather refluff warforged or use a homebrewed monster class than figure out the LA. On the one hand, the mental scores are barely above those of a cabbage. On the other hand, immunity to magic is ridiculously powerful.

[Mithril Leaf]

Actually, I'm fine with mineral warrior. It's strong, yes, but its benefits are mostly numbers, and the numbers aren't that high.



See, that's the problem. I'd much rather refluff warforged or use a homebrewed monster class than figure out the LA. On the one hand, the mental scores are barely above those of a cabbage. On the other hand, immunity to magic is ridiculously powerful.

But they only have unlimited spell resistance thankfully :smallwink:

[Immabozo]

On the one hand, the mental scores are barely above those of a cabbage.

greatest quote ever.