countering a chained spell

[drack]

I was wondering. If someone casts a chained spell, then to counter it through casting the same spell, does the chaining take place before the spell is cast or after?

That is to say, would one copy of the spell be sufficient, or must there be one for every chained copy?

[Douglas]

Chain Spell does not create additional copies of a spell, it merely causes a single spell to affect additional targets. Not only do you not need multiple spells to counterspell it, you also do not need multiple Dispel Magics to get rid of it after it's already in effect.

Even for metamagics that do create additional copies, such as Twin Spell and Repeat Spell, metamagic never takes effect until the spell is successfully cast. Counterspelling prevents the spell from being cast, so the metamagic doesn't get a chance to work.

[Rubik]

That said, unless you've optimized counterspelling (such as with Reactive Counterspell and whatnot) it's generally better to "counterspell" using things like massive damage to force Concentration checks.

[Frosty]

Readied actions with Manyshot works wonders. Make sure you can see through illusions and your arrows can beat windwall.

[KillianHawkeye]

Make sure you can see through illusions and your arrows can beat windwall.

Wind Wall is an evocation, not an illusion. :smallconfused:

[TuggyNE]

Wind Wall is an evocation, not an illusion. :smallconfused:

Two separate conditions; you need to be able to see through illusions and penetrate wind wall. I read it that way first, but then when you commented I realized the ambiguity.

Also, Greater Manyshot and Improved Skirmish are even better for readied actions. :smallamused:

[drack]

Ah, thanks guys. I've actually looked into counter-spelling before, an always liked the heightened with improved counterspell and spontaneous caster, just wanted to make sure it doesn't need to be super feat-heavy. :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

Readied actions with Manyshot works wonders. Make sure you can see through illusions and your arrows can beat windwall.
Beating illusions and invisibility sure. At least have a good listen, if not more. But windwall always struck me as bat barracuda repellant
http://www.pajiba.com/assets_c/2012/06/pajibabatman66merchbatsharkrepellent-thumb-550x384-45564.jpg

I'd walk right through a windwall, preferably but not necessarily with a high movement speed. Usually you want boots of speed anyway. But it would be very low on my priority list and I'd never spend anything significant on it. In all my years of playing D&D I've seen a wind wall exactly once. The party archer was not prepared for it at all. And he walked right through it and proceeded without any issues. He was saying well you don't see the cool updraft effect because my darkness is up. And I said no no it's really "dimness" so it makes you look even cooler. So after a waste of a round and wasting a ludicrous amount of spell resources on a counter to every little foe in the multiverse, all wind wall does is create some neat visual special effects. Only DMs ever have the resources to predict and prepare for it, and even then it doesn't do anything.

For a caster "countering" a spell, try scorching ray or [empowered] magic missile. They have the added advantage of being spreadable to take out mirror images. For magic missile you don't have to worry about cover or concealment. Or the orb spells work too if that's all you have. Similar to wind wall, it makes no sense to blow feats or other resources for it specifically unless you face enemy casters in most fights.

[Frosty]

Wind Wall is an evocation, not an illusion. :smallconfused:The illusion I'm specifically worried about it Greater Mirror Image.

[ericgrau]

Ya you gotta use full attacks or greater manyshot.

[Frosty]

It still would save the mage from damage. You want to just ignore illusions altogether.