Enlarge Person decreases your CMD?

[Frosty]

So let's say you're Trippy McAoO, with a great strength score and a decent dex score. You typically wield some two-handed weapon such as a guisarme and you don't have Weapon Finesse or Agile Maneuvers feat. Your friendly neighborhood wizard casts Enlarge Person on you.

In terms of CMD, you now have 2 less Dex, and a -1 Size penalty to AC. This is partially offset by the +1 Size bonus to CMD. This still leaves you with a net minus 1 to your CMD by being Enlarged right? So you are now *more* prone to bring tripped and bowled-over by the enemy because you are now twice as big and weigh 8 times as much?

[The_Snark]

I'm not terribly familiar with Pathfinder (I assume you're discussing Pathfinder?), but I don't think your AC factors into your CMD, does it? Not directly, anyway. I suppose it makes you easier to hit with a touch attack, but that's not really the same thing.

Plus, you've forgotten the spell's bonus to Strength. So the net change to an enlarged character's CMD should be +1; +1 for higher Strength, -1 for lower Dexterity, and a +1 size bonus.

[BWR]

Yup, a +1 increase of CMD is correct.
It's not AC, even though it looks a lot like it.

[Frosty]

Just like how any applicable bonus to Attack rolls would help CMB, any universal penalty of AC lowers your CMD.

I did, however, forget to include the +2 Str in the CMD calculations, so it looks like at worst it is a wash...


CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier + miscellaneous modifiers

Miscellaneous Modifiers

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

[Saph]

Enlarge Person increases your CMD by +1.

+1 from the extra 2 strength, +1 from the increased size, -1 from the 2 less dex = +1.

The "penalties to AC reduce your CMD" line refers to miscellaneous penalties, like a witch's Evil Eye, not standard ones like size. Size modifier is already taken into account in the CMD equation – if they'd meant the two to cancel out, they'd have said so.

Look at the statblocks of PF monsters, such as the Brown Bear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/bear/brown-grizzly-bear). Its CMD is 20: 10 base, +5 for Str, +3 for BAB, +1 for Dex, +1 for size. If it took a penalty to CMD for size its CMD would be 19.

[Frosty]

Size modifier is already taken into account in the CMD equation – if they'd meant the two to cancel out, they'd have said so.That's the way I'd *like* to read it. I just hope it's RAW. :smallredface:

Long time no see, Saph. Have you been on the forums lately?

[Saph]

That's the way I'd *like* to read it. I just hope it's RAW. :smallredface:

Long time no see, Saph. Have you been on the forums lately?

I checked a PF monster just to confirm it, and yup, I'm pretty sure it's RAW.

And I've been around! Spend most of my time writing these days, but I'm still reading the boards, just usually in the General forum. :smallsmile:

[TuggyNE]

The RAW does seem confusingly worded, but at least RAI is quite clear.