(3.5) Breaking the game at level 1.

[Snowbluff]

So, this guy I know pretty much gave me free reign over 3.5. When I said I'll be a gentleman and won't do anything crazy, he told to do it. Then I note I could cast level 9 spells at level one, he told me he'd probably have to kill me for that, but we agreed not until after I level a small city.

Now, I am not sure what I should do. I know Pun Pun, easy level 9 spells, and uberchargers. These sound great, but the first two are immediately game ending material and the last one is kind boring. I could play something with a lot of RHD and write a Wight into the back story (He said "level 1", which could lead to some awful lawyering), but since this isn't stuff I normally play with I thought I'd ask you guys.

What can/should I do?

[Phelix-Mu]

Truenamer.

...

Wait...

Right, a serious question. Well, I find that I never have quite as much fun as when I play a druid. That's me. It's my tier 1 of choice, and is strong and versatile enough, and with enough rules exploits, to keep me in good stead for most, if not all, of 20 levels.

That said, while impressive out of the box, 1st-level druid isn't that silly.

I'd go for something more along the lines of archivist or StP erudite, maybe artificer. High tier, but not as famously so as wizards.

The artificer idea is interesting, actually. Maybe combine it with some of the recent stuff about the production of constructs at reduced price. Not sure you can manage it all at 1st, but you can probably get a nice money-factory->golem factory production chain going disturbingly early.

I believe that skysaber was the OP of several threads that went into discount construct shops, can't recall the name of the threads, though, and they were using some liberal source material and Netherese shortcuts, as well.

In any case, artificer is known to be strong, has good PrC support, can fill multiple party roles, and the infusions are pretty awesome in-and-of themselves. It would be my choice, but I don't know enough about it's tricks to know what is possible at 1. But that's the appeal: the thrill of hunting for tricks and learning the exploits!

It does sound like fun. Any DM that says those kinds of things usually doesn't know the extent of the silly that is out there. Enlighten said DM.:smallbiggrin:

[dantiesilva]

Human Cleric of Pelor 1

Human bonus feat Extend spell
1st level feat Persist spell
Flaw 1 DMM persist spell
Flaw 2 Extra turning

Have fun, sure not that many great feats to persist at this level, but it only grows with you.

At level 4 go into church inquisitor from CD

Then at 6-7 (I think) RSoP

The rest is history. I am at level 14 right now with this build and the only time I am let down is when I face level 20 casters who launch GDM at me.

[Fable Wright]

Dragonborn Incarnate Construct Warforged Dread Blossom Symbiote (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833) Mineral Warrior Barbarian 1 is technically level 1 and could be a load of fun to play.

[Cranthis]

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold with Loredrake.

[Harrow]

If you can use flaws, then go cleric, Heighten, DMM heighten, the Undeath domain, then a reserve feat. Summon Elemental is a fun one at level one.

Alternatively, without flaws you can go Human wizard with Fell Drain (Libris Mortis) then Easy Metamagic (Dragon 325). Then cast a 0 level spell (such as sonic snap) modified with Fell Drain as a 1st level spell and one-shot anything that isn't immune to energy drain and has 1 HD. One spell, one kill is pretty nice at level 1. It stops being quite so broken at higher levels, but it's never really 'bad'.

[Gavinfoxx]

I second Druid, with a bunch of Attack Mules.

[Mithril Leaf]

Well if the DM gives nearly free reign, ask for the great Secrets of/ Villains of Pact Magic books. Awesome books, but you can make a Pact Magician that makes incantatrix cry himself to sleep because his metamagic is junk by comparison. With unlimited Arcane Persist and spells as supernatural abilities, you can have a LOT of fun.

[SouthpawSoldier]

Halfling Monk, go Exalted with Vow of Poverty from Book of Exalted Deeds. My groups DM flat-out banned those feats.

[Mato]

Halfling Monk, go Exalted with Vow of Poverty from Book of Exalted Deeds. My groups DM flat-out banned those feats.Because your DM wants you to succeed.

The PHBII variant of Druid is pretty powerful at the 1st level. Plus you have Greenbound Summons which are insane. Flaws even let you increase your caster level to ensure your mobs stick around for a few rounds too.

Edit - Details
Stronghearted Halfling Shapechanger Druid 1
Ability Scores: Str 20, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8.
AC/Saves: 17 AC (+3 armor, +4 natural), +4/+3/+3.
Full-Attack: +5 quarter staff (1d6+7) & +5 bite (1d8+5).
Feats: Greenbound Summoning, Ashbound, Spell Focus(conjuration), Augment Summoning.
Trait: Spell-gifted(conjuration).
Equipment: optional shield/sword load out, loses thf bonus but +2 ac.
Example Summon: Eagle
Duration: 4 Rounds.
Size/Type: Small Plant
Hit Dice: 1d8+5 (9 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+5
Attack: Talons +8 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: 2 talons +8 melee (1d4+5) and bite +3 melee (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: damage reduction 10/magic & slashing, resistance to cold/electricity 10, fast healing 3, tremor sense 60ft, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +16
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse.
Spell-Like Abilities: at-will entangle. 1/day wall of thorns.

[eggynack]

Halfling Monk, go Exalted with Vow of Poverty from Book of Exalted Deeds. My groups DM flat-out banned those feats.
Leaving aside the fact that vow of poverty is terrible, you can't take it at first level as a regular halfling. It has sacred vow as a prerequisite, so you need two feats to do it. You can use strongheart halfling, but you shouldn't, because it's terrible. As is, you're basically trading two feats for a +4 to AC and a sacred feat. You could do a lot better at first level with just about anything.

Because your DM wants you to succeed.

The PHBII variant of Druid is pretty powerful at the 1st level. Plus you have Greenbound Summons which are insane. Flaws even let you increase your caster level to ensure your mobs stick around for a few rounds too.
I'm not too familiar with that variant's upside, because I usually see it being used as a way to give druids a bit of balance. It's a pretty obvious downgrade by level 6. Is it really better than a riding dog animal companion at level one? Also, greenbound is amazing, at the very least for free walls of thorns. Are greenbound and ashbound mutually exclusive? Cause that'd be a sweet combo to up your summon's ability to last.

[Snowbluff]

Thank you all for the responses. I was thinking about going Planar Shepard, but the DMM Heighten




It does sound like fun. Any DM that says those kinds of things usually doesn't know the extent of the silly that is out there. Enlighten said DM.:smallbiggrin:

Well, I already taught this guy not to ban ToB with a wizard... not he's just hit the other extreme. :smallwink:

I won't go crazy with this. I think Cleric/AnimaMage/TenebrousAspostate with dumbdumbdumb turning use is how I'll handle this. I'll use DMM Heighten, and retrain some things for persist later one.

Human Cleric, 18 in Cha (That's 7 heightens? Wait, I need 8 turning attempts), DMM Heighten, Heighten Spell, Summon Elemental. One last Reserve feat would be nice, or I could start on early entry Anima Mage (Divine adaptation)

[Mato]

I'm not too familiar with that variant's upside, because I usually see it being used as a way to give druids a bit of balance. It's a pretty obvious downgrade by level 6.Gives +4 natural AC, a bite attack, and +4 enhancement to str. Better than a riding dog? Depends on if your opponent is attacking the dog or his owner obviously. Updated my post to detailing a bit more information.

[eggynack]

Gives +4 natural AC, a bite attack, and +4 enhancement to str. Better than a riding dog? Depends on if your opponent is attacking the dog or his owner obviously. Updated my post to detailing a bit more information.
It's definitely interesting, though I think the dog is still favored. Comparatively, it has more defense, but less offence. I think that the real thing that favors the dog method is that if you're running into combat, those are rounds where you aren't shooting greenbound summoned animals. You're basically halving your actions to increase the druid's defenses directly rather than indirectly. Also, the dog gets free trip attempts, which is neat. I'd generally stick to the normal druid, especially because you're seriously sacrificing power at later levels for this benefit. It's probably not a problem for this circumstance, but it's a thing of some kind.

[Snowbluff]

I have to agree. The only Druid Variant that's a buff is Wild Reaper, which gets turning.

[Idhan]

Magebred mules with +4 str/+2 dex/+2 con, thick-skinned breed, and improved natural attack would be a pretty good deal for 16 gp. (Magebred template is from Eberron)

Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+12 (25 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+11
Attack: Hoof +6 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Improved Natural Attack
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: Domesticated
Challenge Rating: 1?
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

[RFLS]

In any case, artificer is known to be strong, has good PrC support, can fill multiple party roles, and the infusions are pretty awesome in-and-of themselves. It would be my choice, but I don't know enough about it's tricks to know what is possible at 1. But that's the appeal: the thrill of hunting for tricks and learning the exploits!

What PrC support does it have? ./curious I've always thought of it as a 1-20 class.

[Tanuki Tales]

Where's Tippy when you need him? :smalltongue:

[Harrow]

What PrC support does it have? ./curious I've always thought of it as a 1-20 class.

Well, there's the unbound scroll which gives you a 5% discount on the GP cost to make scrolls per class level plus an additional 10% for being in the class at all. This is also explicitly additive to Extraordinary Artisan, so with the feat and 5 levels in the class you make scrolls for 20% the market price in gold (plus a little bit of XP). They can also burn daily uses of their dragonmarks to get extra uses out of scrolls.

[Sith_Happens]

The Artificer section also has a sidebar that lets it benefit from +Caster Level PrC's.

[Deophaun]

The Artificer section also has a sidebar that lets it benefit from +Caster Level PrC's.
Page #? I'm blind and can't find it. :smallfrown:

[Darrin]

I think the only really broken build at level 1 is Pun Pun, or variations thereof. The Omniscificer (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868070/LoPs_Omniscificer), for example, doesn't get going until ECL 4. Bubs the Commoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7097263#post7097263) is also ECL 4ish.

Try consulting Campaign Smashers III (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868074/Campaign_Smashers_III:_The_stuff_that_completely_b reaks_the_game). This lists the worst worldbreakers. For a somewhat updated list, rockdeworld compiled a bunch of Famous Builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258580).

[Invader]

I was always under the impression that artificers were almost always better off going straight artificer for 20 levels. In fact I can't renew get reading about a single build that branched off into something else.

[ahenobarbi]

Greatly depends on what you'd like to play. "Easy bake Wizard" is great:

Gray Elf (Monster Manual I)
Elven Wizard Substitution Level(s) (Races of The Wild)
Collegiate Wizard feat (Complete Arcane)
Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon Magazine #357)
Domain Wizard (Unearthed Arcana)

5 first level slots at level 1 (1 (class) + 1 (elven generalist) + 1 (domain) +2 (int))
No spellbook or familiar to worry about. No scribe scroll. Should be great at level 1 (but not so good to guarantee character termination).

Or simple Druid 1 with ranks in Handle Animal and Warbeast Riding Dog companion.

[Invader]

I think the only really broken build at level 1 is Pun Pun, or variations thereof http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868070/LoPs_Omniscificer"]The Omniscificer[/URL], for example, doesn't get going until ECL 4. Bubs the Commoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7097263#post7097263) is also ECL 4ish.

Try consulting Campaign Smashers III (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868074/Campaign_Smashers_III:_The_stuff_that_completely_b reaks_the_game). This lists the worst worldbreakers. For a somewhat updated list, rockdeworld compiled a bunch of Famous Builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258580).

Idk, breaking the game is really subjective. Of course something like pun pun does it but a greenbound summoning druid at first level will absolutely wreck any appropriate challenge the DM throws out. I'd consider that broken even though I love greenbound summoning.

[Snowbluff]

So, like, I'll be needing some gear.

IN MY BACKSTORY:

My character turned his 200 starting GP into 800 cheap by selling poles made out of ladders.

After that, he'll get a caster (A fellow cleric) to make him a wall of salt, and sell that for 5gp/pound. How many pounds is a wall of salt?

After that, he will exclusively wield morphing shuriken morphed into clubs. He will also wear some armor, probably Chain Shirt + Dastana + chahar-aina.

[ahenobarbi]

So, like, I'll be needing some gear.

IN MY BACKSTORY:

My character turned his 200 starting GP into 800 cheap by selling poles made out of ladders.

After that, he'll get a caster (A fellow cleric) to make him a wall of salt, and sell that for 5gp/pound. How many pounds is a wall of salt?

After that, he will exclusively wield morphing shuriken morphed into clubs. He will also wear some armor, probably Chain Shirt + Dastana + chahar-aina.

Area of wall of salt is i 5ft square per CL and it's thickness is 1 inch/CL. So it's volume is 5ft(height)*5ft*CL(length) *CL/12 ft (thickness) = (25*CL*CL/12) cu ft.

Some page (http://www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/table-blank-salt) says salt density is 135.47 lb/cu ft, so weight of te wall is
(25*CL*CL/12)*135.47 ~= 282 *CL *CL pounds

EDIT: with price of 5gp per pound it'd be worth about 1410*CL*CL gp, 69090 gp for (minimal) CL=7.

[Zaq]

Personally, I just like that a 1st level Wizard can say "screw this, let's go to Arcadia instead" with zero rules ambiguity. Precocious Apprentice for Summon Monster II. Planar Handbook says you can use SM2 to summon an ur-epona, which can use Plane Shift as an SLA, taking the rider with it. Sure, it's not 9th level spells at level 1, but if you really want to just be a total ass and ignore your GM's campaign, there's nothing quite like saying "You know what, this guard duty job is boring. I'm out. We're all going to Ysgard."

[ahenobarbi]

Personally, I just like that a 1st level Wizard can say "screw this, let's go to Arcadia instead" with zero rules ambiguity. Precocious Apprentice for Summon Monster II. Planar Handbook says you can use SM2 to summon an ur-epona, which can use Plane Shift as an SLA, taking the rider with it. Sure, it's not 9th level spells at level 1, but if you really want to just be a total ass and ignore your GM's campaign, there's nothing quite like saying "You know what, this guard duty job is boring. I'm out. We're all going to Ysgard."

Plane Shift is level 7 (for Sor/Wiz) or 5 (for Cleric) not 9. Still pretty awesome (if it works - I can't access Planar Handbook to verify).

[Aharon]

@Zaq

This doesn't work because of this clause:


A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.

However, you can do something similar at level 3 with an artificer, making a scroll of create lantern archon (Champions of Valor). That one is a calling spell, so the archon can use its greater teleport :smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

Area of wall of salt is i 5ft square per CL and it's thickness is 1 inch/CL. So it's volume is 5ft(height)*5ft*CL(length) *CL/12 ft (thickness) = (25*CL*CL/12) cu ft.

Some page (http://www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/table-blank-salt) says salt density is 135.47 lb/cu ft, so weight of te wall is
(25*CL*CL/12)*135.47 ~= 282 *CL *CL pounds

EDIT: with price of 5gp per pound it'd be worth about 1410*CL*CL gp, 69090 gp for (minimal) CL=7.

Thanks for the free math, but I was hoping there was a rule for salt density. Oh well. :smallsigh:

I could cast the spell myself, if I spend a second feat for an extra spell slot...