DMM cleric build advice

[Arael666]

Hello playground, I intend go melee DMM Persist Cleric and I'd really appreciate some insights on my idea, but first some clarifications.

The DM ruled that I can persist touch spells (so no need to reach spell or ocular spell). I haven't checked his ruling on nightsticks yet, so I don't know if he'll allow them, and even if he does I bet he wont let me stack them. Finally, no ToB, no LA buyoff and no flaws, I have to worship a deity (so no hand picking domains) and I'm starting at lvl 3, but the first session will be in 2 days, so I can still change a few things.

Here's the build so far

Human Cleric 7/Sacred Exorcist 2

Stats: STR 14; DEX 8; CON 16; INT 12; WIS 16; CHA 14

God: Heironeus (planning and war domain)

ACF: rebuke dragon (lvl 1)

Feats:
Extend Spell (domain), Persistent Spell (lvl 1), Divine Metamagic (Human)
Extra turning (lvl 3)
Elder Giant Magic (lvl 6)
Extra Turning (lvl 9)

So, by lvl 9, I'll have a minimum of 13 rebuke dragons and 9 turn undead attempts.


Basically the character wont need much wealth, since he'll be persisting and using hour/lvl spells with a higher CL (elder giant magic+prayer beads for a total +7), so I intend on using that "extra" wealth on the party (a dwarf druid, an aasimar paladin and a halfling rogue).

I really don't want to break the campaign, I just want to be a fairly good melee, capable of assisting the party without outshining them. Would the playground change anything?

Also, what do I do from now on? I'm really stuck on the next feats and prestige classes, if the DM rule out nightsticks I'll probably just take more extra turnings, and I don't like losing CL, so death delver is a big irk to me.

[Arael666]

Come on guys, even bad advice will do. I just need a perspective, or if someone could point me similar builds.

[Amoren]

How much can you draw upon for setting splats? There's quite a few setting-specific (or material from setting books) which could do well. For example, Bone Knight is an excellent cleric prestige class if the flavor suites you, and there's a feat in the Dragonlance books which allows you to use charisma as your casting stat for being able to cast a spell and bonus spells per day (but not for spell saving throws): since you're a melee cleric, and would be using mostly buff spells, this can help reduce MAD by allowing you to maximize your turns per day.

However, a feat that's probably a requirement regardless is Power Attack. Its about the only feat you need to really be good at melee as a DMM:Persist cleric.

Hmmm, how favorable to cheese/rough abuse of the rules are? The last DMM:P Cleric I made was a pretty great healer and party support, because of a few things he did. If he allows Prestige Paladin, and rules that Battle Blessing (feat from complete champion, I believe) works on spells that are only from the paladin spell list, a one level dip and feat gives you automatic quicken cure major wounds which can really dish out healing when its needed - on top of other quicken spells you can cast to support the party while still full attacking. If you combine Radiant Servant of Pelor with this (like I did), automatically empowering/maximizing (or both) of those quickened spells does add up quite rapidly.

Since you don't like losing caster levels, ordained champion is probably out.

Some tricks/tips on what to persist: I always had Righteous Wrath of the Faithful for party buff, as well as divine power (for myself, to be a decent beat stick). Another good choice, in my opinion, is persisting mass less vigor to take care of all out of combat needs (and some in combat ones) with one spell (being at max hit points for every fight is a huge boon). One arguable spell combination is Healthful Rest (I believe) from spell compendium, which doubles your rate of healing. Persisted vigor spells RAWly apply, or so I've heard it written, so a level one or two spell doubles the healing rate of your mass x vigor spell, and can make it quite noticeable in combat.

[Seer_of_Heart]

If you wish to maximize turn undead attempts take an ACF that replaces turn undead with a type of turning that says it acts as turn undead even though its not (ex, destroy undead). Then take a 1 level dip (losing a caster level in the process :( ) in death delver to pick up rebuke undead. Then take 1 level or more in sacred exorcist to get turn undead. Voila! Three pools to power DMM(turn undead, some ACF pool, and rebuke undead) making any charisma bonuses and extra turning attempts 3 times as effective.

[mattie_p]

If you wish to maximize turn undead attempts take an ACF that replaces turn undead with a type of turning that says it acts as turn undead even though its not (ex, destroy undead). Then take a 1 level dip (losing a caster level in the process :( ) in death delver to pick up rebuke undead. Then take 1 level or more in sacred exorcist to get turn undead. Voila! Three pools to power DMM(turn undead, some ACF pool, and rebuke undead) making any charisma bonuses and extra turning attempts 3 times as effective.

He did the first thing you suggested, with rebuke dragons ACF from Dragon Magic, p14. He also declined Death Delver, my usual advice for a DMM user. And he is taking Sacred Exorcist. All of this was mentioned in the OP.

@Arael666: You have 22 turns/rebukes for DMM, sufficient for persisting 2 spells. Do pick up a reliquary holy symbol from MIC for at least two more, enabling you to persist three.

I know you don't want to lose caster levels, so a Crusader dip + refluffed RKV is out. Although it is awesome.

Fist of Raziel (BoED) is 9/10 casting, no casting advancement at level 1. Requires LG, +6 BAB, a few other things you might have.

Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is full casting, requires some bogus feats, but keeps the draconic theme going.

[Andezzar]

Prestige Paladin and Battle Blessing do not work together.

A prestige Paladin never casts Paladin spells. He casts spells of whatever class he chooses to advance with the Prestige paladin class. Even if some of his spells also appear on the Paladin spell list, for him they are Cleric/Favored Soul/whatever other class spells.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

Has anyone suggested Complete Champion's Ordained Champion along with the Prestige Paladin? This makes for some serious buffing/melee power.

The CC also has a specialized holy symbol (masterwork) for 100 gp that gives you an extra turning attempt.

[Arael666]

Thanks for the replies guys, guess I'll have to rethink my irkness on loosing caster levels, since death delver will grant me another turning pool. But I'll probably do that only if the DM rules out nighticks.

[Amoren]

Prestige Paladin and Battle Blessing do not work together.

A prestige Paladin never casts Paladin spells. He casts spells of whatever class he chooses to advance with the Prestige paladin class. Even if some of his spells also appear on the Paladin spell list, for him they are Cleric/Favored Soul/whatever other class spells.

To be fair, they shouldn't work in the first place, since Battle Blessing requires Paladin, not Prestige Paladin. However, I know for a fact some DMs allow it, which is why I mentioned he should talk to his DM about it. I rather like the combination because it means you can act the healer while not burning combat turns healing somebody. You can use a swift action to heal and then attack. :3

Anyway, wouldn't he already have enough for three persisted spells? If I remember right, its metamagic adjustment +1 turn attempts, so 6+1 = 7, 7*3 = 21, just short of 22? That's enough to persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Power, and the Mass Vigor of his choice.

[mattie_p]

Anyway, wouldn't he already have enough for three persisted spells? If I remember right, its metamagic adjustment +1 turn attempts, so 6+1 = 7, 7*3 = 21, just short of 22? That's enough to persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Power, and the Mass Vigor of his choice.

Err, yes, you are correct. I apparently derped on that one. Not sure why I was thinking 8...

[Seer_of_Heart]

He did the first thing you suggested, with rebuke dragons ACF from Dragon Magic, p14. He also declined Death Delver, my usual advice for a DMM user. And he is taking Sacred Exorcist. All of this was mentioned in the OP.

@Arael666: You have 22 turns/rebukes for DMM, sufficient for persisting 2 spells. Do pick up a reliquary holy symbol from MIC for at least two more, enabling you to persist three.

I know you don't want to lose caster levels, so a Crusader dip + refluffed RKV is out. Although it is awesome.

Fist of Raziel (BoED) is 9/10 casting, no casting advancement at level 1. Requires LG, +6 BAB, a few other things you might have.

Dracolyte (Draconomicon) is full casting, requires some bogus feats, but keeps the draconic theme going.

Sorry about that, was reading stuff on my phone and I skimmed past the relevant parts to my discussion :smallredface:.

[Snowbluff]

I"d suggest Ordained Champion if Tenebrous Apostate wasn't so good for DMM.

Tenebrous gives you a turning pool every 5 rounds.

[Arael666]

Tenebrous apostate stack with other turning pools, and by RAW I could use it once every 5 rounds, so the vestige gives me 1 non stackable turn attempt every 5 rounds.

[Arael666]

Also, did Wizards fixed Nightstick in an errata? If not, what is the playground opinion? I have a few pretty good arguments myself to try and convince my DM (though not stacking per se, but allowing me to use multiple sticks).

[mattie_p]

I believe the general consensus is that they stack, but only for turns and rebukes of undead (not dragons, for example), but they really shouldn't.