Helping Changing into a Rogue:

[Os1ris09]

To help explain what happened I think it is best to explain my original character:

Race:
Aasimar (with LA bought Off)

Classes:
C-Cleric 3 / Warlock 2 / Eldritch Disciple 4
(yes DM does play with XP multiclass penalty)

STATS Base (no items)
STR - 12
DEX - 16
CON - 16
INT - 16
WIS - 22
CHA - 20

Feats:
1st - Travel Devotion
3rd - Extend Spell
6th - Persist Spell
9th - DMM(Persist)

I will be changing the feats as well since DM goes with the ruling that I can't use DMM Persist on a spell unless I can actually cast at that lvl (Ergo can't DMM persist divine power since I can't cast 10th lvl spells :smallfrown: )

How can I turn my cloistered cleric into a skill-monkey that can do party face stuff, finding info, and disabling traps without sacrificing casting?

DO not want to change stats or race. Just the classes and feats.

[HeadlessMermaid]

How can I turn my cloistered cleric into a skill-monkey that can do party face stuff, finding info, and disabling traps without sacrificing casting?
The Beguiler does exactly that. All you requested, in a box. It's not too powerful, but it's very neat. Except that it's intelligence-based, and I'm not sure if you can re-assign your stats.

Alternatively, you can play the caster of your choice and take the Planar Touchstone feat, assuming you can afford 8 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) - so you can do it with bard, wizard, cleric, archivist, or planar sorcerer. Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) gets you a domain power, and if you pick Kobold domain you gain trapfinding and Search/Disable Device as class skills. (Well, as cleric class skills. I'm not sure how that works when you get the domain power without being an actual cleric, so ask your DM.)

Bard is more thematically appropriate and has more skill points, but it's a half-caster of course, and rather feat-intensive if you want to make the best of it. As for the rest, sorcerer gets bluff as a class skill, cleric/druid get diplomacy, wizard/archivist get all the knowledge skills. Skill points may be low, but anything you can't do with skills, you can probably do with spells. Especially if you're an arcane caster.

Finally, if you're willing to sacrifice some casting, you can go for rogue / wizard (or sorcerer) / unseen seer. You'll lose at least one spell level, but you'll have trapfinding, plenty of skill points, all social skills, all knowledge skills, and spells.

[Os1ris09]

I love where the idea is however I still wanted to be a cleric as our party only has me for that role. So I am trying to fill that job too.

However, I will talk with my group and see if any of them want to be the cleric than I can go with what your talking about. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks again for the response.

[Telonius]

If you absolutely positively don't want to multiclass out, two feats from Incarnum will get it for you: Shape Soulmeld (Theft Gloves), and Open Least Chakra (hands). (Open Least Chakra requires Con 13, which you have, and level 6). You'll be able to bind Theft Gloves to your hand chakra, which grants you Trapfinding.

[Os1ris09]

Well our DM is very stingent on allowing extra material from other source books that aren't in core. Claims that they are OP in comparison to core.

Example: Saint Template is approx. a +7 Adjustment (more powerful than a mind flayer)

So I am not sure my DM will allow that item to be used.

However I think I came up with a build that might work.

Human

Rogue 1 / Ranger 1 / C-Cleric 3 / Divine Oracle 2 / C-Cleric 4 / Contemplative 1 / C-Cleric XX

Feats:
1st - Nymphs Kiss
Human - Able Learner
Rest are up to the playground to advise.

It is not my job to scout and be stealthy but to be the party face and an off tank when necessary.

[Os1ris09]

Really no help from the GITP?

Also can anyone point out where it says in the players handbook that S.A. applies to all attacks when two weapon fighting?

[Urpriest]

Also can anyone point out where it says in the players handbook that S.A. applies to all attacks when two weapon fighting?

...why would two-weapon fighting have a special interaction with sneak attack? It just gives you more attacks. It doesn't grant your opponents concealment or anything like that.

As for your base question...you're looking for party face, finding info, and disabling traps? And you don't need stealth or the like?

For finding info, your first build casts as a Cleric 6. In core, Locate Object, Speak With Dead, and Augury are all very nice. In general, divinations will be more useful as you level than skills would have been, especially when you add splatbooks (what precisely are your book limitations, anyway?), and the occasional invocation can shore up weak spots here.

For party face, Cleric gets Diplomacy, Warlock gets Bluff, Eldritch Disciple gets both, and Warlock gets an invocation giving +6 to both. Plus you've got buckets of Cha. You'll be great at this without even trying.

Finally, there's traps. You do get Find Traps, which makes you ok at it when you can spare a casting, and Detect Magic can find magic traps if you're careful where you point it. In general, if you make sure to point out to your DM when traps don't make sense (in occupied areas with any sort of frequent traffic, in areas that weren't supposed to be invaded in the first place, etc.) then you won't have to deal with traps too often anyway. If you really really need to deal with traps, either get expendable creatures to hurl at them (Summon Swarm invocation? Summon Elemental Reserve feat if you can) or pick up Trapfinding (Kobold Domain if you can, otherwise a dip in Rogue or Spellthief if you must). But in general, between Detect Magic and being savvy this shouldn't be a big issue.

Switching up some of your feats for Nymph's Kiss or other skill-feats is all well and good. Just be aware that you don't have to trash your Eldritch Disciple build to fill this role.

[Os1ris09]

...why would two-weapon fighting have a special interaction with sneak attack? It just gives you more attacks. It doesn't grant your opponents concealment or anything like that.

As for your base question...you're looking for party face, finding info, and disabling traps? And you don't need stealth or the like?

For finding info, your first build casts as a Cleric 6. In core, Locate Object, Speak With Dead, and Augury are all very nice. In general, divinations will be more useful as you level than skills would have been, especially when you add splatbooks (what precisely are your book limitations, anyway?), and the occasional invocation can shore up weak spots here.

For party face, Cleric gets Diplomacy, Warlock gets Bluff, Eldritch Disciple gets both, and Warlock gets an invocation giving +6 to both. Plus you've got buckets of Cha. You'll be great at this without even trying.

Finally, there's traps. You do get Find Traps, which makes you ok at it when you can spare a casting, and Detect Magic can find magic traps if you're careful where you point it. In general, if you make sure to point out to your DM when traps don't make sense (in occupied areas with any sort of frequent traffic, in areas that weren't supposed to be invaded in the first place, etc.) then you won't have to deal with traps too often anyway. If you really really need to deal with traps, either get expendable creatures to hurl at them (Summon Swarm invocation? Summon Elemental Reserve feat if you can) or pick up Trapfinding (Kobold Domain if you can, otherwise a dip in Rogue or Spellthief if you must). But in general, between Detect Magic and being savvy this shouldn't be a big issue.

Switching up some of your feats for Nymph's Kiss or other skill-feats is all well and good. Just be aware that you don't have to trash your Eldritch Disciple build to fill this role.

Thank you for replying Ur-Priest. To clarify all of the handbooks in regards to Sneak Attack state that the bonus damage applies to every attack in two weapon fighting. So a Rogue with Improved 2WF and a BAB of at least 6 gets their Sneak attack damage to every attack (4 in total) if they hit. Yet how I read it doesn't state that. :smallconfused:

I am asking for a clarification of the rules because when I decide to go the 2WF route and state that I get the bonus damage to every attack I want to make sure its clear to the DM.

The main thing we need a rogue for is trapfinding/gather information. Otherwise I have party face pretty much well done. I agree that I don't need to change the build but I wanted to make sure I had another option in case I needed to.