Cons & Con Artists in D&D & Pathfinder

[Coidzor]

So, I've got a new PF campaign coming up and my mind eventually settled upon the idea of doing a con artist, modeled in part upon Moist Von Lipwig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moist_von_Lipwig)(spoilers). Specifically I'm leaning bard or sorcerer and may have a thing with a friend's character, an oracle with a fortune-telling shtick.

I'm familiar with some basic ideas like the Mount spell and recall some potential work-arounds to avoid a relatively common 1st level spells, but I'm sure there's some real-world analogue schemes that wouldn't work as commonly/easily/well due to the mechanical construction of the game/easily accessed magical countermeasures and new ones that the skill system and magic would allow that have no analogues.

Just wondering what you all have thought up or run into, since I know that this has been touched upon if not delved into.

[Frosty]

His name is Moist Von Lipwig? How did he ever get through school without getting constantly beat up?

[Coidzor]

His name is Moist Von Lipwig? How did he ever get through school without getting constantly beat up?

I imagine that contributed to him leaving school and becoming a con artist. The last name was that of the town though, and I believe the first name was foreign to them. So...

[Eslin]

By being very, very clever.

[Der_DWSage]

So, I've got a new PF campaign coming up and my mind eventually settled upon the idea of doing a con artist, modeled in part upon Moist Von Lipwig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moist_von_Lipwig)(spoilers). Specifically I'm leaning bard or sorcerer and may have a thing with a friend's character, an oracle with a fortune-telling shtick.

I'm familiar with some basic ideas like the Mount spell and recall some potential work-arounds to avoid a relatively common 1st level spells, but I'm sure there's some real-world analogue schemes that wouldn't work as commonly/easily/well due to the mechanical construction of the game/easily accessed magical countermeasures and new ones that the skill system and magic would allow that have no analogues.

Just wondering what you all have thought up or run into, since I know that this has been touched upon if not delved into.

Well...honestly, if you wanted to get as close to Moist as you could, you'd be playing an Expert. :smalltongue:

However, as a real scam artist and scoundrel, there's probably two things you're going to want to invest in. The first is the fact that there's no con like an expensive con-invest in Magic Aura (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-aura) ASAP, and start swindling those adventurers out of their well-earned gold. Of course, you'll definitely want to take Disguise Self (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/disguise-self) so that they don't realize it was you that swindled them, and make sure you have some ranks in Sense Motive and Bluff so you can pick out the suckers from the spellcasters that might actually realize you're messing with them. (It used to be easier before the days Maguses existed...) Ask if you can have a masterwork item-a book of legendary weapons, to give people a -2 to their Perception checks and Will saves vs. the thing in their hands being fake. (After all, it looks so similar to the works of Durdana, the Dwarven Smith who forged Orcnibbler, wielded by the greatest Halfling Rogue of all time!)

It's implied that this is all low level, so also invest in smokesticks and tanglefoot bags for when you're inevitably found out and need to beat a quick retreat-perhaps even take Ghost Sound and Vanish, so that you can duck down an alleyway and make it sound like you're still running in the smoky area.

Mount is a good spell, but not so much for someone that has such a small selection at their disposal. Instead, I'd recommend investing in an actual horse and getting the Mount spell when you're higher level.

Now, to truly play a Moist, just remember-you're not going against the vault that holds all the goodies. You're not even going against the people in charge of the vault. No, you're going against the guys who have the day to day job of guarding the vault, the pencil-pushers who open it and count it every day to make sure everything's still there...you're going for the weakest link. The bored NPC who just wants his day over with and to go home. The bank teller with no ranks in Perception and can't spot a forgery. Not every place is going to have these, but then they're generally automated defenses (So invest in some Disable Device and Perception.) or they're magical. (In which case, do some research on how they might be bypassed by legitimate owners, and see if you can't duplicate them via Disguise Self and Magic Aura.)



As you can probably tell, playing a trickster like Moist is near and dear to my heart. Good luck, and remember-telling a confusing truth is better than a lie any day of the week. (Also, watch out for those forced truth zones-they're kinda nasty.)

[Corlindale]

Mount is a good spell, but not so much for someone that has such a small selection at their disposal. Instead, I'd recommend investing in an actual horse and getting the Mount spell when you're higher level.

Wasn't the point of Mount to do the "horse sale" trick? I remember a player doing that quite succesfully in one of our games - at least until he had to leave town in a hurry...

Sandman Bard would Work well for a Con Artist - Master of Deception helps with a big skill bonus to all the "tricky" skills, and it gets a lot of other useful powers, plus the Whole package of bard enchantment and illusion spells.

[Der_DWSage]

Speaking from the perspective as someone who played a Moist type of character, the Mount trick is too risky for the chump change it would bring. Mounts last a few hours, and then you're an obvious spellcaster and liar when they get found out-or that rogue actually took 'Detect Magic' and discovers your horses are more than they seem. It wouldn't appeal to Moist, not unless he was seriously short on cash and a little desperate. Also, intending to leave town in a hurry.

Whereas if you're selling (false) magic weapons? You just claim that you bought them from one of your other aliases, and that he was last seen down that alleyway, you might catch him if you run along now...

You're thinking too small, Corlin. The effective conman doesn't try to rob the bank, he tries to get the bank to owe him the money in its vaults, as well as 10% of its profits for the next ten years. And you do it in a way that doesn't tie you directly to the events in any way whatsoever, so that you can skip town and try it elsewhere all over again...

[Palanan]

In my last campaign, as an introductory scenario for a new player, I worked up a confidence scam based on some excellent suggestions from some folks on the Playground. The idea of the confidence scam was first suggested by BowStreetRunner in this brief thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264125), and it was developed further here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264346), with some great input from Hyde and Shneeky, among others.

Unfortunately the player stood me up and I never had a chance to run the scam, so if you can bring these ideas to life I'd love to hear how it goes.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Paizo's Master Spy (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/prestigeClasses/masterSpy.html) is a prestige class to look at.

The skills would be things that you would already want maxed out. Unfortunately, the feat prereqs suuuuuck.

[Telonius]

This link (http://www.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-classic-cons_10.html) might help. Most of these (for obvious reasons) work without any magical assistance, but the first one (the Melon Drop) could really be used to great effect with magical assistance.

Bump into someone, have that set off a "Disjunction" effect (actually a flashy Dancing Lights) that "disjoins" your "Magic Rod" (actually just a stick with some impressive-looking runes carved into it). Use another Dancing Lights to give off some threatening looking visual effects. Tell the mark that "A wizard as powerful as I am could kill you with a thought. What could you possibly give that could compensate me for the loss?"

[Gildedragon]

Where's the ball with a ball summoned by prestidigitation.
Vials of water sold as potions of X or Y. Use quick potion to have the "real deal" on hand all the time.
1 charge wands sold as new
Iounstones patched up with resin or recolored.
Eyes of vecna gotten from the butchers'...

[Coidzor]

Wasn't the point of Mount to do the "horse sale" trick? I remember a player doing that quite succesfully in one of our games - at least until he had to leave town in a hurry...

Yeah, that's the idea, though I've also heard many people detail just why it's a bad idea and unlikely to work most places in a setting with greater verisimilitude or application/exploitation of the rules framework.

No thread discussing this stuff is really complete without at least mentioning it though, I thought, and I figured it might get some people's minds going with better alternatives to suggest.


Sandman Bard would Work well for a Con Artist - Master of Deception helps with a big skill bonus to all the "tricky" skills, and it gets a lot of other useful powers, plus the Whole package of bard enchantment and illusion spells.

Master of Deception does look tasty, though I'm not so sure about the other powers it gets. Granted, I'm kind of an inspire courage junkie, but it seems like it's mostly reduced to trying to get opportunities to sneak attack using its spells in combat, if it has combat spells, or hope it has some way of getting a spell donated from an ally or learning what spells an enemy caster has before they get used on them and no longer available for stealing and acting as a weak-ish controller or blaster depending upon what enemy casters provide.


I'm kind of looking more towards sorcerer to see what tricky archetypes/bloodlines are available so that I can boost the party which looks like it's going to be a bit weak on control side at the moment it's an alchemist(unknown focus, pyro persona for the character though), a gunslinger(?) or other ranged skillmonkey(so at least I don't have to bring trapfinding to the table), and an oracle (focused on debuffing and healing, maybe dipping into minionmancy).

By the way, this specific character and the oracle have been in the general vicinity of Port Peril in the Shackles for a bit as part of the build-up to the adventure path we're on, in case of any specific things that come to mind as far as conning pirates and sailors goes.

[Coidzor]

And any recommended gear? I've got 150 starting gp rolled up, and since I've not seen anything with a sorcerer that's caught my eye, I'm going to flip a coin between regular bard and sandman bard.

Was thinking I'd invest in a disguise kit and maybe some other clothing props...