German speakers, need some help decomposing a compound word

[angrymudcrab]

Hi, I'm trying to translate Krabat into English, mostly so I can get a better grasp of German vocabulary and grammar. I took a semester of German in college, but due to bad scheduling and emotional issues on my part I didn't retain a lot so I'm trying to get back into it. However I've run into a compound word I can't figure out how to break down and was wondering if anyone fluent in German could give me some advice.

The word in question is:

Höchstderoselben

As far as I can tell it is translates to "highest + <deroselben>", but I can't figure out how to break down the deroselben part, since it doesn't match any word(s) I recognize, and neither my handheld dictionary nor the beolingus online dictionary seems to have anything like it.

German Context:
...der Kurfürst von Sachsen, das Betteln und Vagabundieren in Höchstderoselben Landen...

Attempted translation of context:
...the Elector of Saxony, the beggars and vagrants in <Höchstderoselben> countries...

The copy of Krabat I'm using has the ISBN of 9783423252812, but if you don't have that version, it is basically the second sentence of the book. If you don't have any version and need more context to determine the meaning, just let me know and I'll type some more.

As an aside, since this is an English forum, I'm guessing that anyone who responds is either a native German speaker who learned English or an Anglophone who learned German. So, could someone recommend a good, exhaustive German-English dictionary? I'm using Langenscheidt's German-English dictionary(ISBN=9780671864194). I suspect it isn't exhaustive enough for the task at hand, and I'm afraid of distracting myself with the internet so I'd prefer to minimize the use of online resources.

Dankeschön!:smallsmile:

[Emmerask]

That is not a modern german word that is currently in use ^^

the compunds are
höchst - greatly/highly
dero -> new form: deren - whose
selben - same

I have to admit I struggled quite a lot with this one even though I´m a native german speaker^^

In this context I´m fairly certain it means something like
"in genau dem Land , das der höchste dieses Landes regiert."

"in this area where the highest of this country is reigning"
or to shorten it without all the bombast "exactly here" :smallbiggrin:

Overall this kind of sentences where used to put the lord/king/noble well above the common people but it also has some undertone of disbelieve that such a thing can happen in a land where this good/great person is in power at least in the context it is in in the example you posted :smallwink:
(these are just assumptions on my part I don´t know the book)

As for your other request, sorry can´t help you there :-/

[Mauve Shirt]

Collins-Robert is my favoritest German dictionary EVAR.

Oh, and Leo.org is my fave online resource.

[Zar Peter]

My try: The electoral prince of Saxon who forbade begging and vagrancy in his own lordly land...

if this makes any sense.

As said before it's not a common german word anymore or wasn't at that time either, just a word to point out that it's about nobility.

[angrymudcrab]

Thanks everyone! Figures I would pick something that uses archaic words.:smallsmile:

[GolemsVoice]

Yeah, it's close to "his high self's", but Zar Peter's translation fits better.

So it could be: the Elector of Saxony, the begging (panhandling?) and vagrancy in his highness' domain/his own lordly land.

Yeah, it's a pretty old word, and uses the compund word "dero" which isn't used in standart German anymore.

[Eldan]

Huh. Not a word I've ever heard, and certainly not a modern one, though I can agree on the meaning from the context.

Höchst: "Highest"
Selben: "Those", "Those same ones"...

[angrymudcrab]

Hmm, now I'm curious. Does anyone know how just archaic this word is? The book itself isn't that old, being published first in 1971. Then again, it's set in the 17th century, so maybe it was a conscious choice by the author to make the story fit the time period? Part of the reason I picked this book to start with was because it was fairly recently written so I thought I wouldn't have to worry too much about archaic words.

[GolemsVoice]

I'd say it's fairly archaic, and the author deliberately chose this word for it's sound. From the snippet you posted, it sounds like a kind of declaration of the Elector?
It's certainly not used today, and hasn't been since, I'd say, at least 100 years.

[Zar Peter]

As Golems Voice said. It's as if an english writer writes a story about the 17th century and uses "Thou" and "Thine" or something like that.

[nedz]

Noble Land might be a better form.

[Timeras]

I think the passage simply means "in said country".

"angrymudcrab höchstselbst" just means "angrymudcrab himself". Höchstderoselbst/selben is probably just a different (possibly even older) form of that.

[Rolling Thunder]

I think the passage simply means "in said country".

"angrymudcrab höchstselbst" just means "angrymudcrab himself". Höchstderoselbst/selben is probably just a different (possibly even older) form of that.

This would be my translation as well. "höchstderoselben", "durchlauchst", etc. were compliments to please the egos of the nobility, only used at court or in official writings. I think Preussler used it to lead the reader into the past and to create a fairy-tale like atmosphere.
You will encounter some more of these "archaic" words. In no way do these words represent the german language of the 60s and 70s. But overall this project will give you a reentry into the german language and I am sure you will always find enough Germans in the Playground to help you.

Concerning further translations: Do you want to translate it as faithful to the original as possible or do you want to translate it into a modern English, where the context might be the same but the wording would differ?

[angrymudcrab]

Hey all, sorry for the long posting delay. The last couple days have been somewhat hectic for me.:smalleek:


My main goals for this project are to get a good feel for how German is put together, so the translation should stay as close as possible to the original German, even if it makes the translation badly formed in English. In the long run I want to be able to read and write German like a native speaker would, not to write English using German words. I'm focusing on written German since there are pretty much no Germans around where I live, and it will probably be a decade or so before I will be in a position to take a trip to Europe. If I can learn to read and write it proficiently, I can get more German books to read off Amazon and explore the German parts of the internet.

[Emmerask]

And at some point you can play the best rpg that ever was or will be, "Das Schwarze Auge" :smallwink:

[GolemsVoice]

It's certainly the most German RPG there is, next to Verbeamtung: The Mülltrennening :smallbiggrin:

But it has a soft spot in my heart, even though I don't play it as often as I would like. Unfortunately, only few, maybe even only one book is translated, which leaves him without 99% of the content. Of course, if you are able to read the German versions, you're not only in for insanely lovingly crafted fantasy, but you've also proven your mastery of German.

angrymudcrab, you can also check out the German translation thread in the OotS forum, maybe even try your hand there, and get advice from others.