Rhynn
2013-05-27, 05:58 PM
I was working on a simplified/personalized version of AD&D 2E Dark Sun, but now ACKS (http://www.autarch.co/) has seriously taken my attention as my perfect version of OSR D&D - everything in it just matches what I want (and what I was working into my version of AD&D 2E).
Original posts in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283751):
So I'm giving the rules a combination of a thorough read and an enthusiastic skimming-ahead, and I am loving all the little details. PC mages creating dungeons to harvest monster parts - finally dungeons make (some) sense! I also love the capacity and support for a long, long campaign: PCs retiring or semi-retiring into their domains and strongholds, new PCs adventuring in dungeons created by older PCs (living or dead). I fully expected that both my Undermountain and my Dark Sun campaigns would require adaptation, but a lot of stuff just jumps out as fitting perfectly in both: mages creating sanctums and dungeons is just perfect. My very first idea for the AD&D Dark Sun was that King Kalak's ziggurat would serve as a centerpiece dungeon; so the White-Gold Tower is his sanctum, the ziggurat is his dungeon. The Sorcerer-Kings will either be 14th-level mages or some psychic-sorcerer campaign class.
Does the Player's Companion have actual rules for creating campaign classes? I'm going to have to come up with a bunch... gnomes and halflings (at least) for FR/Undermountain and my own setting, probably more elves (some sort of druid-priest-elder at least), a half-elf "gypsy" class for my setting, psionics (and probably warrior-psionics and sneak-psionics) for Dark Sun, cannibal halfling warriors and their psionic-arcane-divine priest-leaders, mul gladiators, thri-kreen, etc. ... I'd love to have some guidelines on hand for all of this. :smalleek: (I'm sort of loving the idea of race classes after so many years: I'm totally okay with thri-kreen and muls only having one class, for instance.)
A lot of "classes" can obviously be done with proficiencies (maybe bonus starting proficiencies in exchange for increased XP requirements): paladins as fighters with access to cleric proficiencies, druids as clerics with Beast Friend, etc., maybe some new proficiencies for gladiators, and so on.
I finished my 6-mile-hex map of the Tablelands of Athas and surroundings (I had a 5-mile-hex map based on the old black-and-white Tablelands map that covered a smaller area).
Going chapter-by-chapter through ACKS now and making notes for my Dark Sun campaign (and somewhat less notes for my Undermountain/Waterdeep/Savage Frontier campaign and Hyborian campaigns). Everything just seems to fit in so perfectly well... for instance, alignment:
Alignment: The struggle of Law and Chaos is central to the state and the fate of Athas. Essentially, Chaos drives the extinction and ruin of the world and Law opposes it.
Law: Civilization, long-term survival, templars, preservers, Elemental clerics who serve civilization and seek to improve the world and protect or restore nature.
Neutrality: Elements, Elemental clerics who seclude themselves from civilization.
Chaos: Sorcerer-Kings, the Dragon of Tyr, defilers, clerics of corrupted or "negative" Elements.
I think Lawful templars/clerics serving Chaotic Sorcerer-Kings fits right into Athas' twisted nature.
Naturally, this being Athas, clerics don't get powers from gods. Many of them worship gods (not "real") or land spirits (real), and templars worship Sorcerer-Kings... I like the idea of "false faiths" being very popular (if somewhat suppressed by Sorcerer-Kings). Clerics use elemental power, either directly or through a Sorcerer-King. I'm integrating Dark Sun paraelements and probably adding in "negative quasi-elements":
Sun: Fire, or Earth and Fire
Rain: Water, or Air and Water
Silt: Earth, or Earth and Water
Sun: Fire, or Air and Fire
Vacuum (Air)
Dust (Earth)
Ash (Fire)
Salt (Water)
I'm also coming up with classes to create - I got my hands on the Player's Companion but haven't started reading through it yet. So far:
Dwarven Earth Priest (cleric)
Dwarven Sun Speaker (cleric)
Elven Desert Runner (explorer?)
Elven Trader (PC courtier or trader)
Elven Windsinger (cleric)
Half-Giant Brute (high HD fighter-type with high XP requirements)
Halfling Renegade (assassin/explorer)
Halfling Rain Priest (cleric)
Mul Gladiator (fighter-type with higher HD)
Thri-Kreen Tik (hunter; fighter or explorer type)
I'm going to need a psionics system. I'll probably base it on AD&D 1E but make it more like Carcosa's... something simple, maybe a couple of dozen powers to cover the basics (telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, attacks and defenses). I'd appreciate any tips anyone has for old-school D&D-style psionic systems!
Basically I'm almost satisfied with something like Carcosa: you have a % chance (based on Int, Wis, and Cha scores) of being psionic and having a random power (from a list of maybe 12). I just want to expand it, probably include the AD&D 1E attack/defense matrix (but not the insanely complicated and poorly defined offensive/defensive strength system)...
I could also go more Gamma World/Mutant Future with it: if you're psychic, roll from a table for an ability, or a couple. (Maybe with an extra chance to be telepathic.) Telepaths could make mental attacks (give them a Mental Attack Throw, mental AC is, say, Wis and Int Cha modifiers added up).
I'm actually not sure if it needs to be a whole "spellcasting" type (arcane, divine, psionic) with its own class(es) - maybe? Many/most of the abilities can just be "as the spell" (charm mammal/monster/person, clairvoyance, command word, confusion, ESP, etc.). I'm probably going to convert/come up with some new Athasian spells anyway, so I may as well add some specifically for psionics.
Here is some stuff on Dark Sun for ACKS:
http://muleabides.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/dark-sun-meets-acks/
http://ironlands.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-sun-hack-for-acks.html
I've got my hands on the Player's Companion, and I'm going through the ACKS core book chapter by chapter, making notes for using it in Dark Sun.
So far, I've got:
Basic classes: fighter, mage, cleric, thief; assassin, bard, explorer; vaultguard, craftpriest, spellsword, nightblade. I'm a bit unsure about bard (since the assassin is the Dark Sun "bard") and the craftpriest; the vaulguard needs a renaming. There'll be a lot of PC campaign classes to make: dwarven sun speaker and earth priests (cleric/priest types), elven runner (barbarian/explorer types), elven windsinger (priest type), half-giant brute (fighter type, huge HD, very slow advancement), halfling renegade (assassin/explorer type), halfling rain priest (priest or mage-priest type), mul gladiator (fighter type, high HD), thri-kreen tik (explorer type).
Currency. Basically, gold pieces become ceramic pieces (cp, equal to copper pieces). There's a slight problem with needing to split the cps into 100ths, but I can just have different denominations, since they have no intrinsic value (each cp is a "water chit" that can be cashed in at a well owned by the issuer.
Equipment, including converting all the animals (I only added 3; the sygra in livestock, the inix and mekillot in transport) and howdahs and wagons (armored mekillot wagons are basically small galleys).
I'm not in Chapter 5 and have to work out psionics.
I'm thinking of just making psionics a third type of spellcasting; as many powers as possible will just say "as [spell]" - or, better yet, just have the same name as a spell. I'm not sure if I want to do psionic power points and the AD&D 1E/2E style attack/defense matrix.
I think, at least to start with, I'll just use basic spellcasting mechanics, and include Mental Attacks inspired by Mutant Future. Anyone with telepathy would be able to make mental attacks (with a Mental Attack Throw that improves as you gain levels) to some effect (possibly even just hit point damage).
I'll definitely include a chance for "wild talents": PCs will have a percentile chance equal to Int modifier + Wis modifier + Cha modifier (if they total 1 or above) of getting a random power (or several), probably with an extra set chance of having telepathy.
Original posts in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283751):
So I'm giving the rules a combination of a thorough read and an enthusiastic skimming-ahead, and I am loving all the little details. PC mages creating dungeons to harvest monster parts - finally dungeons make (some) sense! I also love the capacity and support for a long, long campaign: PCs retiring or semi-retiring into their domains and strongholds, new PCs adventuring in dungeons created by older PCs (living or dead). I fully expected that both my Undermountain and my Dark Sun campaigns would require adaptation, but a lot of stuff just jumps out as fitting perfectly in both: mages creating sanctums and dungeons is just perfect. My very first idea for the AD&D Dark Sun was that King Kalak's ziggurat would serve as a centerpiece dungeon; so the White-Gold Tower is his sanctum, the ziggurat is his dungeon. The Sorcerer-Kings will either be 14th-level mages or some psychic-sorcerer campaign class.
Does the Player's Companion have actual rules for creating campaign classes? I'm going to have to come up with a bunch... gnomes and halflings (at least) for FR/Undermountain and my own setting, probably more elves (some sort of druid-priest-elder at least), a half-elf "gypsy" class for my setting, psionics (and probably warrior-psionics and sneak-psionics) for Dark Sun, cannibal halfling warriors and their psionic-arcane-divine priest-leaders, mul gladiators, thri-kreen, etc. ... I'd love to have some guidelines on hand for all of this. :smalleek: (I'm sort of loving the idea of race classes after so many years: I'm totally okay with thri-kreen and muls only having one class, for instance.)
A lot of "classes" can obviously be done with proficiencies (maybe bonus starting proficiencies in exchange for increased XP requirements): paladins as fighters with access to cleric proficiencies, druids as clerics with Beast Friend, etc., maybe some new proficiencies for gladiators, and so on.
I finished my 6-mile-hex map of the Tablelands of Athas and surroundings (I had a 5-mile-hex map based on the old black-and-white Tablelands map that covered a smaller area).
Going chapter-by-chapter through ACKS now and making notes for my Dark Sun campaign (and somewhat less notes for my Undermountain/Waterdeep/Savage Frontier campaign and Hyborian campaigns). Everything just seems to fit in so perfectly well... for instance, alignment:
Alignment: The struggle of Law and Chaos is central to the state and the fate of Athas. Essentially, Chaos drives the extinction and ruin of the world and Law opposes it.
Law: Civilization, long-term survival, templars, preservers, Elemental clerics who serve civilization and seek to improve the world and protect or restore nature.
Neutrality: Elements, Elemental clerics who seclude themselves from civilization.
Chaos: Sorcerer-Kings, the Dragon of Tyr, defilers, clerics of corrupted or "negative" Elements.
I think Lawful templars/clerics serving Chaotic Sorcerer-Kings fits right into Athas' twisted nature.
Naturally, this being Athas, clerics don't get powers from gods. Many of them worship gods (not "real") or land spirits (real), and templars worship Sorcerer-Kings... I like the idea of "false faiths" being very popular (if somewhat suppressed by Sorcerer-Kings). Clerics use elemental power, either directly or through a Sorcerer-King. I'm integrating Dark Sun paraelements and probably adding in "negative quasi-elements":
Sun: Fire, or Earth and Fire
Rain: Water, or Air and Water
Silt: Earth, or Earth and Water
Sun: Fire, or Air and Fire
Vacuum (Air)
Dust (Earth)
Ash (Fire)
Salt (Water)
I'm also coming up with classes to create - I got my hands on the Player's Companion but haven't started reading through it yet. So far:
Dwarven Earth Priest (cleric)
Dwarven Sun Speaker (cleric)
Elven Desert Runner (explorer?)
Elven Trader (PC courtier or trader)
Elven Windsinger (cleric)
Half-Giant Brute (high HD fighter-type with high XP requirements)
Halfling Renegade (assassin/explorer)
Halfling Rain Priest (cleric)
Mul Gladiator (fighter-type with higher HD)
Thri-Kreen Tik (hunter; fighter or explorer type)
I'm going to need a psionics system. I'll probably base it on AD&D 1E but make it more like Carcosa's... something simple, maybe a couple of dozen powers to cover the basics (telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, attacks and defenses). I'd appreciate any tips anyone has for old-school D&D-style psionic systems!
Basically I'm almost satisfied with something like Carcosa: you have a % chance (based on Int, Wis, and Cha scores) of being psionic and having a random power (from a list of maybe 12). I just want to expand it, probably include the AD&D 1E attack/defense matrix (but not the insanely complicated and poorly defined offensive/defensive strength system)...
I could also go more Gamma World/Mutant Future with it: if you're psychic, roll from a table for an ability, or a couple. (Maybe with an extra chance to be telepathic.) Telepaths could make mental attacks (give them a Mental Attack Throw, mental AC is, say, Wis and Int Cha modifiers added up).
I'm actually not sure if it needs to be a whole "spellcasting" type (arcane, divine, psionic) with its own class(es) - maybe? Many/most of the abilities can just be "as the spell" (charm mammal/monster/person, clairvoyance, command word, confusion, ESP, etc.). I'm probably going to convert/come up with some new Athasian spells anyway, so I may as well add some specifically for psionics.
Here is some stuff on Dark Sun for ACKS:
http://muleabides.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/dark-sun-meets-acks/
http://ironlands.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-sun-hack-for-acks.html
I've got my hands on the Player's Companion, and I'm going through the ACKS core book chapter by chapter, making notes for using it in Dark Sun.
So far, I've got:
Basic classes: fighter, mage, cleric, thief; assassin, bard, explorer; vaultguard, craftpriest, spellsword, nightblade. I'm a bit unsure about bard (since the assassin is the Dark Sun "bard") and the craftpriest; the vaulguard needs a renaming. There'll be a lot of PC campaign classes to make: dwarven sun speaker and earth priests (cleric/priest types), elven runner (barbarian/explorer types), elven windsinger (priest type), half-giant brute (fighter type, huge HD, very slow advancement), halfling renegade (assassin/explorer type), halfling rain priest (priest or mage-priest type), mul gladiator (fighter type, high HD), thri-kreen tik (explorer type).
Currency. Basically, gold pieces become ceramic pieces (cp, equal to copper pieces). There's a slight problem with needing to split the cps into 100ths, but I can just have different denominations, since they have no intrinsic value (each cp is a "water chit" that can be cashed in at a well owned by the issuer.
Equipment, including converting all the animals (I only added 3; the sygra in livestock, the inix and mekillot in transport) and howdahs and wagons (armored mekillot wagons are basically small galleys).
I'm not in Chapter 5 and have to work out psionics.
I'm thinking of just making psionics a third type of spellcasting; as many powers as possible will just say "as [spell]" - or, better yet, just have the same name as a spell. I'm not sure if I want to do psionic power points and the AD&D 1E/2E style attack/defense matrix.
I think, at least to start with, I'll just use basic spellcasting mechanics, and include Mental Attacks inspired by Mutant Future. Anyone with telepathy would be able to make mental attacks (with a Mental Attack Throw that improves as you gain levels) to some effect (possibly even just hit point damage).
I'll definitely include a chance for "wild talents": PCs will have a percentile chance equal to Int modifier + Wis modifier + Cha modifier (if they total 1 or above) of getting a random power (or several), probably with an extra set chance of having telepathy.