Swift Hunter of Kharash

[BowStreetRunner]

I am trying to flesh out a build based on Ranger / Scout / Stalker of Kharash. The idea is to take as many favored enemies as possible that are normally immune to precision damage like skirmish and use the Swift Hunter feat so my skirmish damage will still affect them.

I want to take no more than 2 levels of Stalker of Kharash - as it will not advance Favored Enemies or Skirmish. Although, considering the number of Favored Enemies versus the number of creatures immune to skirmish damage - do I even need it at all or would I be better going straight Ranger / Scout?

The character would need to be stealthy - so not only would I be maxing out ranks of Hide and Move Silently, but I would also be trying to get to Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight as early as possible.

I'm not sure what the best race is. The campaign includes XP penalties for multi-classing, so Favored Class is important. Nor am I certain how many levels to take of each class. Although obviously if neither Ranger nor Scout is a favored class, then I would need to level in both equally.

No 3rd party books allowed. No setting-specific books allowed. No Unearthed Arcana allowed. No web-enhancements allowed. Otherwise, most of the 3.5 books are permitted.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm not too expert on Swift Hunter builds, but if you are going to pick up Favored Enemies along the way, and need a ranger favored class race, let me suggest one of the races that get the increased Favored Enemy damage from a racial substitution level (sylvan elf, I think, would take the elf ranger substitution level from Races of the Wild, and gnomes...I guess you'd need the gnome subrace from Dragon Magic to get favored class=ranger, the gnome substitution level is in Races of Stone). The addition of +3 every 5 levels is much better over the long run. There may be other races, too, just none come to mind.

That advice kind of relies on some kind of insight into what enemies you will likely be fighting.

If you end up having to dump Wisdom, there are several ACFs for rangers with no spells. Not ideal, but if you are going for a ranged Swift Hunter, then a couple extra feats or the like might be worth it.

[TuggyNE]

Although, considering the number of Favored Enemies versus the number of creatures immune to skirmish damage - do I even need it at all or would I be better going straight Ranger / Scout?

You don't need it much, since 15+ levels of Ranger will get you Undead, Construct, and any two of Elemental, Plant, and Ooze. There aren't any other precision-immune types, so there you go.

Of course, there are likely to be a few creatures, like some aberrations, that are precision-immune by virtue of race instead of type, but those are likely to be rare enough not to really worry about.

[thethird]

You don't really need stalker of Kahrash there, ranger gives enough favored enemies to bypass most immunities, I would personally take favored enemy (arcanists) at level 1, to bypass immunities granted by spells (casted by the arcanist in question).

[Vaz]

Stalkers (Evil) is a massively broad category.

If you want to expand even further; a Druid can take Deadly Hunter variant for Wis to AC, and an additional Favoured enemy. You also gain Track so you can trade it in as a Ranger. You also gain access to the Druid Spell list so you can use Wands or Scrolls very well. You can also get an Urban Companion who can help you scout. You can then use your Druid spells to increase that; natural bond to get a Fleshraker, which you then venomfire+enlarge (through a staff).

To turn a staff into a more useable weapon, Morphing Sizing, Skillful enchantments are the deal.

[Fouredged Sword]

Arcanist will cover anything with SLA's.

Evil will cover 99% of undead.

So that leaves... Plants, Ooze, Elemental, Construct... I think that covers it.

[ericp65]

You could give the character the Swift Hunter class, instead of the other base classes, and add Stalker of Kharash. That's what I did as part of a rewrite of a ranger character who is a Needle of Mielikki (FR setting).

[Darrin]

Do you want a Ranged Swift Hunter or TWF Swift Hunter?



I want to take no more than 2 levels of Stalker of Kharash - as it will not advance Favored Enemies or Skirmish. Although, considering the number of Favored Enemies versus the number of creatures immune to skirmish damage - do I even need it at all or would I be better going straight Ranger / Scout?


The "typical" Swift Hunter build is Scout 4/Ranger 16 (my preferense) or Scout 5/Ranger 15 (gets Evasion earlier). If you absolutely have to have HiPS from Ranger, you can squeeze by with Scout 3/Ranger 17, but you lose the Scout's bonus feat, which is useful for picking up either Swift Hunter or Improved Skirmish.

If all you want is to maximize Skirmish damage, then keep in mind that Skirmish tops out with 5d6 at Scout 17. This means your combined Scout/Ranger levels should add up to 17, such as 4/13 or 5/12. The last three levels can be something else, such as Stalker of Kharash 2 and... hmm... normally I'd say Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce + Whirling Frenzy, but that would incur multiclass penalties. Ah, here we go: Abolisher 1 in Lords of Madness gets us Favored Enemy: Aberrations.

If you want more than Skirmish damage, you can replace levels of Ranger with Highland Stalker 2 (+1d6), Dragon Devotee 4 (+2d6), or Unseen Seer (+2d6). If you take all three + Improved Skirmish, you can get up to 10d6 Skirmish damage. But then you can't fit in Stalker of Kharash, and you lose most of your favored enemies.



The character would need to be stealthy - so not only would I be maxing out ranks of Hide and Move Silently, but I would also be trying to get to Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight as early as possible.


Tricky. Camouflage will come in late, somewhere around ECL 17ish, and you can't get HiPS from Ranger unless you go Scout 3/Ranger 17, and then only at ECL 20.

Forest Reeve 4 (Complete Champion) offers sort of a combined Camouflage/HiPS, but doesn't advance Favored Enemy or Skirmish.

Dip into Shadow Dancer instead of Abolisher can get you HiPS, but it'll cost you three nearly useless feats.

Your best bet for HiPS might be the Dark template (Tome of Magic). If your DM allows LA buyoff, then do that, otherwise consider the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (10800 GP for command-activated, 22000 GP for continuous).



I'm not sure what the best race is. The campaign includes XP penalties for multi-classing, so Favored Class is important. Nor am I certain how many levels to take of each class. Although obviously if neither Ranger nor Scout is a favored class, then I would need to level in both equally.


Most Swift Hunter builds are very tight on feats, so Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfling, or Frostblood Orc tend to work best. With multiclass penalties... that sorta leaves just Human. Silverbrow Human might be best, anyway... this qualifies you to take Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) for another +1d6 skirmish if you like.

[BowStreetRunner]

...let me suggest one of the races that get the increased Favored Enemy damage from a racial substitution level...+3 every 5 levels is much better over the long run.
I like this suggestion. The biggest problem though is avoiding multi-class penalties if I do so. I would need to either keep ranger/scout equal or have Favored Class: Ranger or Any. I am not aware of any race with Favored Class: Scout. Wood Elf has FE: Ranger and with the first substitution level could net me +3 vs Undead.


If you end up having to dump Wisdom, there are several ACFs for rangers with no spells.
Definitely worth considering. A Ranger-heavy build might still benefit more from the spell, but add too many Scout or PrC levels that don't improve casting and I think one or two feats is more valuable than a couple of low-level spells at high level.


...15+ levels of Ranger will get you Undead, Construct, and any two of Elemental, Plant, and Ooze...

...ranger gives enough favored enemies to bypass most immunities...
Of the favored enemies with immunity to precision damage that I can pick up, I have them currently ranked in the following order: 1) Undead, 2) Construct, 3) Elemental, 4) Plant, 5) Ooze. The difficulty is how to evaluate Favored Enemy: Evil and Favored Enemy: Arcanist against this list. Having either changes up the math a bit. Undead are mostly evil, but most of the others tend to be neutral. My original idea was to have Evil from Stalker and use the normal Ranger FEs for Construct, Elemental, Plant and Ooze.


...a Druid can take Deadly Hunter variant...
Nice, but Unearthed Arcana is not allowed in this campaign.


Arcanist will cover anything with SLA's.
The specific ruling my DM employs is that Favored Enemy: Arcanist applies to creatures who cast spells, but the only spell-like abilities that count are invocations.


You could give the character the Swift Hunter class...
I am not familiar with this class, but it doesn't appear to come from any of the allowed books (see OP above).


Do you want a Ranged Swift Hunter or TWF Swift Hunter?
Sorry, I should have included this in the OP. I am looking for a primarily ranged build.


Your best bet for HiPS might be the Dark template (Tome of Magic). If your DM allows LA buyoff, then do that, otherwise consider the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (10800 GP for command-activated, 22000 GP for continuous).
I have considered this. No LA buyoff in this campaign, but LA +1 would not kill me at this point. I'm still undecided about it. The HiPS is on my list, +10 ft movement is very nice, low-light vision and darkvision would be very helpful if I go with human, and the hide/move silently bonuses are fantastic.


The "typical" Swift Hunter build is Scout 4/Ranger 16...Scout 5/Ranger 15 (gets Evasion earlier)...to have HiPS from Ranger, you can squeeze by with Scout 3/Ranger 17...
I need at least 1 level of Ranger and 3 of Scout to qualify for Swift Hunter, so those levels and the class features they include are a given. The Swift Hunter feat means I will get full progression in Favored Enemies and Skirmish, regardless of how many additional levels I take in each class, so those should no longer be a consideration. Taking as many Ranger levels as possible gives me the highest spellcasting progression, which seems to me the main argument for a mostly-Ranger build. Other than that, there are a number of levels that give me key features. To help qualify for Greater Manyshot, Scout 4 gives a bonus feat that can be used for Point Blank Shot, Ranger 2 can grant Rapid Shot and Ranger 6 would give Manyshot. Evasion can come from either Scout 5 or Ranger 9. Camouflage from Ranger 13 or Scout 8. Hide in Plain Sight can be picked up with Scout 14 or Ranger 17. Scout 6 gives Flawless Stride which is superior to Ranger 7's Woodland Stride.


...your combined Scout/Ranger levels should add up to 17, such as 4/13 or 5/12. The last three levels can be something else, such as Stalker of Kharash 2 and...Abolisher 1 in Lords of Madness gets us Favored Enemy: Aberrations.
Abolisher 1 not only looks useful, but the requirements should not be a problem. Definitely worth keeping in mind.


If you want more than Skirmish damage, you can replace levels of Ranger with Highland Stalker 2 (+1d6), Dragon Devotee 4 (+2d6), or Unseen Seer (+2d6). If you take all three + Improved Skirmish, you can get up to 10d6 Skirmish damage. But then you can't fit in Stalker of Kharash, and you lose most of your favored enemies.


Forest Reeve 4 (Complete Champion) offers sort of a combined Camouflage/HiPS, but doesn't advance Favored Enemy or Skirmish.
My DM has ruled the name of the feature (camouflage) is irrelvant here, it is written as the description for Hide in Plain Sight (even while being observed) and does not mention not needing cover/concealment. So in our campaign Forest Reeve 4 effectively gives HiPS in natural terrain and nothing else. Honestly, I am very tempted to go with the Dark creature template unless my final build is already looking like going Scout 14 or Ranger 17 for some reason.


...Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfling, or Frostblood Orc tend to work best. With multiclass penalties... that sorta leaves just Human. Silverbrow Human might be best, anyway... this qualifies you to take Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) for another +1d6 skirmish if you like.
Strongheart Halfling is Forgotten Realms and therefore out, unless there is another sourcebook where they were reprinted perhaps? Azurin has potential, in particular this would open up the Azure Enmity and/or Indigo Strike feats, although it would require balancing Ranger/Scout levels. While Frostblood Orc would get a nice bonus feat in place of Endurance at Ranger 3, they don't have a great deal more going for them that would work for this build. As for Silverbrow Humans, Dragonfire Strike is certainly nice as would be other benefits such as getting the improved bonus on Draconic Aura (Senses), but it seems most of the benefits would require me to find room for additional feats in an already feat-starved build.

[TypoNinja]

Undead and Constructs might not be required types to pick up, the Weapon Augment Crystals from the MIC will let you crit and sneak attack them, get a ruling from your DM on precision damage for if that also means Skirmish.

[BowStreetRunner]

Undead and Constructs might not be required types to pick up, the Weapon Augment Crystals from the MIC will let you crit and sneak attack them, get a ruling from your DM on precision damage for if that also means Skirmish.
I've already received a ruling on this one. The DM will allow things like Greater Demolition Crystal and Greater Truedeath Crystal to overcome immunity to skirmish damage as well. So these are certainly options to consider.

[Daftendirekt]

The best swift hunter is generally scout 4/ranger 16 (or scout 5/ranger 15, as it nets you Evasion a good deal sooner and ranger's 16th level doesn't really give you anything). As people have pointed out, you'll get plenty of FEs to cover the skirmish-immune types. Check out the Swift Hunter handbook in my sig for more good advice on how to build.

[Phelix-Mu]

My DM has ruled the name of the feature (camouflage) is irrelvant here, it is written as the description for Hide in Plain Sight (even while being observed) and does not mention not needing cover/concealment. So in our campaign Forest Reeve 4 effectively gives HiPS in natural terrain and nothing else. Honestly, I am very tempted to go with the Dark creature template unless my final build is already looking like going Scout 14 or Ranger 17 for some reason.

There is an item in Tome of Magic that confers the dark template when worn. Pretty useful, and more affordable than the LA. I believe it's collar of umbral metamorphosis or something like that. It will let you pick up HiPS earlier in your build, and keep it until you earn it from some other source.