Sneaky Wizard optimisation help

[Waitingnomad]

I’m fairly new to optimisation, and I know that sneak-attacking spellcasters aren’t completely optimal (especially for a wizard), but I like the flavour of the character more than say an über-powered Wizard/ Incantrix/ IoTSfV. This is what I have at the moment, with the Necropolitan template fitting into a necromancer theme I have planned out for the character and some of the odder equipment being a carry over from my last (now deceased) bard character:

Male Necropolitan

Spellthief 1/ Wizard 6/ Unseen Seer 2/ Fatespinner 3
Str 8; Dex 17; Con N/A; Int 24 (Base 22, +2 for Circlet of Intellect); Wis 11; Cha 14
Fort N/A; Ref +9; Will +19; AC 23
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Master Spellthief, Chain Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Smiting Spell, Silent Spell, Arcane Thesis: Enervate, Shadow Weave Magic, Split Ray, Craft Contingent Spell
Skills include: Bluff +16, Concentration +18, Disguise +16, Hide +22, Intimidate +14, Spellcraft +25, UMD +12
Equipment includes: Vest of Resistance +4, Circlet of Intellect +2, Belt of Healing, x2 Rings of Spell Storing, Gloves of Fortunate Striking, Githcraft Mithral Buckler +1, Custom Muffled Shadow-enhanced Githcraft Thistledown-padded Mithral Chain Shirt +1 (Gives +7 to Hide checks!), Eager/Spell Storing Darkwood Quarterstaff +1, Returning Mithral Dagger of Outsider Bane +1 in Shield Sheath.

There is already a sorcerer in the party who is going down the blasty route, so I won’t be serving as the party’s only arcanist, but still want to retain spellcasting versatility as much as possible, and want to keep the prepared spellcaster model over a spontaneous one. The party includes a Paladin, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Fighter aside from myself.

I’m looking for any advice on how to best optimise this character, e.g. if there’s any feats I should have taken, which schools to ban for this build, if there are any class choices that might better suit the build, what spells I really need to be choosing etc. This character hasn’t come into play yet (and won’t for a few more weeks) so I still have plenty of time to tweak him. I would like to avoid cheesy tactics like candle of invocation loops etc. as I wan’t him to be as playable as possible- thanks in advance.

[gorfnab]

Sneak Attacking Spellcasters: Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)
For the Wizard levels consider only taking 5 levels and then going into Unseen Seer since the 6th level of Wizard is kind of a dead level. For the first level of Wizard swap out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative (UA, Simple Wizard ACF). Also consider looking into finding an ACF to trade for your familiar since you won't get much out of it because of having few Wizard class levels (PHB II has some nice ones, especially the Conjuration one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7908)). Consider looking into the Spontaneous Divination ACF (CC) instead of the 5th level Wizard bonus feat.

Schools to ban: Evocation and Enchantment.

[Story]

If you're getting sneak attack anyway, you might want to look at Spellwarp Sniper. Normally the lost wizard levels aren't worth it, but you aren't going for that anyway.

[buttcyst]

One pretty basic way to go is wizard+rogue=arcane trickster, its a pretty neat class with good flavor and offers a way to get away with pulling off roguely sneaky things under the paladins nose without having to do much explaining of yourself. arcane trickster PrC is in the DMG

Another idea for a more sneaky/combat based build is the spellwarp sniper from the complete scoundrel. it offers sneak attack dammage for ray spells as well as the ability to convert the area/cone spells you know into ray spells (making the" reflex for half" turn into "what's his touch AC?")


For both, you will need a diversion away from spellcasting for several levels, but there is a feat called practised spellcaster (PHB2 I think) that allows you to add 4 to your caster level but not to exceed your ECL.

[buttcyst]

If you're getting sneak attack anyway, you might want to look at Spellwarp Sniper. Normally the lost wizard levels aren't worth it, but you aren't going for that anyway.

yep... I took too long typing....

[Waitingnomad]

Would you say its better to specialise or go generalist? If I specialise it will be in Necromancy, and the Necromancy specialist alt. feature isn't fantastic- the skeleton minion isn't as good as the Hummingbird familiar (+4 to Initiative, uses Thrush familiar stats for everything else) that I was looking at, and the ability to deliver touch spells is too tasty to ignore. I'll have a look at some of the class variants though, as I agree Scribe Scroll could be swapped for something better.

Spellwarp Sniper looks pretty good- how many levels in it would you recommend? It seems like something worth taking all 5 levels in. As for rogue, I'm trying not to lose any caster levels if at all possible, hence Spellthief + Master Spellthief, but practiced spellcaster seems like a good way of avoiding that issue. Would you say that going down the rogue -> arcane trickster route would be better than just taking more levels in spellthief? The prereq's for AT look pretty nasty.
Thanks for all replies!

[buttcyst]

AT looks like a lot of prereqs, but, if you do the 3 levels in rogue for the sneak attack damage, gaining the needed skills should be straight forward, most are roguely skills anyways. With both spellwarp sniper and arcane trickster being full casting PrCs, with only the 3 lvl dip, you would still gain access to 9th lvl spell if you went wizard for casting power, only 8th if you did sorcerer. you can talk to your DM about house ruling your practiced spellcaster feat to make 9th lvl spell slots available for metamagic purposes, you caster level will be 20th after all. as far as specializing, I wouldn't if you went wizard, but not a bad idea for a sorcerer, necromancy would be a poor choice, evocation deals with most energy types which are most useful when you you can turn all energy damage dealing spell into a ray

[Spuddles]

Optimizing the Hide skill as a caster:
Be a kobold using the web enhancement version to get the slight build racial ability. For the purpose of opposed rolls, you count as one size category smaller if you want. That nets you +8 to hide. With Shrink Person, that gets you +12. Shrink Person is incompatible with Dragonwrought and Necropolitan, unfortunately, due to type conflicts. But being small generally nets you a total of +5 to hide (+4 size, +1 dex bonus).

Distracting Shadows (wizard 1), from Magic of Eberron makes it so anyone in or looking into the area (10 ft) takes a -5 penalty to spot & search checks. This spell is cast on an object, and lasts 24 hours. So you cast it on a dagger or a glove or some other easily concealable item when you yourself need to make a search check. Unfortunately, if you have to roll a spot check, you probably won't have the chance to put the item away.

Camouflage (ranger 1) and Chameleon (psy warrior 1) each net you +10 to hide checks, the former circumstance, I believe, and the latter enhancement.

Those are of course a little more difficult to get ahold of as a wizard, though you can pick up the former via a Fiendish Familiar (Fiend Folio), using it as a source of spell knowledge.

[Flickerdart]

One of the Illusionist ACFs in UA lets you add your Int bonus to Hide, so you can have a truly prodigious modifier even before you start going invisible and all that.

[Feint's End]

For the Wizard levels consider only taking 5 levels and then going into Unseen Seer since the 6th level of Wizard is kind of a dead level. For the first level of Wizard swap out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative (UA, Simple Wizard ACF).

Consider looking into the Spontaneous Divination ACF (CC) instead of the 5th level Wizard bonus feat.

Schools to ban: Evocation and Enchantment.

Remember though that Simple Wizard changes all your bonus feats to Fighter feats (not just Scribe Scroll) and therefor a Dm might rule that you can't swap out a Fighter Feat for an ACF (most should allow it though)

As for OP ... Have you considered going Changeling and taking the Changeling Substitution Levels for Wizard? Also Able Learner would make you a great Skillmonkey with the Skills from Spellthief.

[Arc_knight25]

I do believe there is a feat in Hero's of battle called Guerrila warrior

Guerrila Warrior

When you are wearing light or medium armor, reduce the armor check penalty of the armor by 1 (minimum 0). Hide and Move Silently ranks cost 1 skill point, even if these skills are cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same.

If you have the skill points it may be useful to keep those skills up while you are taking those caster levels.

[Waitingnomad]

I'll have a look into some of those classes and ACFs- thank you all for your advice. As a general note, how optimised of a character would you say this is (for a sneak-attacking caster, anyway) if I were to go Spellthief 1/Wiz 5/ US 2/ FS 4? (as it was mentioned that Wiz 6 is something of a dead level). I'd like to get a feel for how powerful this build would be for me to use it in a campaign.

Tactics wise, my approach would be to apply buffs to my party using chain spells before moving to debuff and damage foes with metamagic'd sneak attack spells. If things get tricky I will be using the one-trick pony of doom that is Arcane Thesis: Enervate as well as potentially resorting to a secondary battlefield control role if the situation calls for it, although I will not be building to this function.

[Jigokuro]

EDIT: All of this is wrong, the sidebar is misleading. I leave this post so no one else makes this mistake.

As per the sidebar on page 86 of Races of the Dragon, sneak attack damage from weaponlike spells is the same type as the spell, even if that damage is ability damage:

A weaponlike spell, simply put, is any spell that requires an attack roll to affect a target and that deals damage (lethal, nonlethal, ability damage, or ability drain) if the attack roll succeeds. [...]
If a sneak attack with a weaponlike spell succeeds, the extra damage dealt is of the same type as the damage normally dealt by the spell.
So afaict it doesn't really take a whole lot to make a powerful sneak attack based caster, and full casting is definitely not necessary. Just consider the second level spell Ray of Stupidity; obviously it is a close range touch attack (ray) that does a flat 1d4+1 int damage, which is then xd6+1d4+1 int damage as a sneak attack.
Heck, an unoptimized rogue19/wiz1 with wands of RoS would be instagibing most things with an average hit of 38.5 int damage.
All this talk of Spellwarp Sniper changing junk like Cone of Cold into a ray seems to be missing the point.

[Urpriest]

As per the sidebar on page 86 of Races of the Dragon, sneak attack damage from weaponlike spells is the same type as the spell, even if that damage is ability damage:

So afaict it doesn't really take a whole lot to make a powerful sneak attack based caster, and full casting is definitely not necessary. Just consider the second level spell Ray of Stupidity; obviously it is a close range touch attack (ray) that does a flat 1d4+1 int damage, which is then xd6+1d4+1 int damage as a sneak attack.
Heck, an unoptimized rogue19/wiz1 with wands of RoS would be instagibing most things with an average hit of 38.5 int damage.
All this talk of Spellwarp Sniper changing junk like Cone of Cold into a ray seems to be missing the point.

I feel like that doesn't retroactively change the ruling from Complete Arcane, since it doesn't explicitly mention doing so.

[Jigokuro]

I feel like that doesn't retroactively change the ruling from Complete Arcane, since it doesn't explicitly mention doing so.

Ah, it definitely wouldn't. It didn't mention that there was a different case for those in CA, and I hadn't read that part of CA before.
The side bar is very misleading without CA access...:smallsigh: