PDA

View Full Version : Are Goo-Girls a legit fantasy archetype?



tbok1992
2013-05-28, 10:19 PM
If the axiom that all 4chan's /tg/ browsers also browse /d/ is true (No Shame! Cobra Kai!) then you've probably heard of the concept of Goo-Girls (Though they can be amel or female, Goo-Girls are just more common in the parlance), humanoid versions of the classic RPG slime monster made for the purposes of fetish fuel. But, I do wonder, do any of you think the concept is valid enough to exist in mainstream fantasy, not just the fetiish-y kind.

I mean, the idea of a humanoid made of malleable slime and based off of a relatively iconic/minor monster-type does seem like it has a lot of hooks for worldbuilding, and the idea does have precedent in D&D (The Slyths, Gahanadauans and, to a lesser extent, Magens), and it might be nice to add a new archetype to the "stable" of fantasy races.

So, do you think the concept could become a "thing" beyond the fetish fuel of lonely nerds (NO SHAME! COBRA KAI!)?

Mastikator
2013-05-28, 10:25 PM
Human shaped slime monsters, like that guy in Deep Space 9, the head of security guy who was actually a slime creature from the other side of the wormhole?
Other than that I've never heard of a "goo-girl", I only visit 4chan when I'm feeling macabre.

Grinner
2013-05-28, 10:39 PM
A sentient ooze? I don't know how much precedent there is, but sure, why not?

I imagine they would split to reproduce, so their society and culture might seem a bit alien. (No nuclear families, after all.)

JusticeZero
2013-05-28, 10:40 PM
I don't see why not. Be prepared to raise eyebrows when you pitch your campaign concept. Someone in my family added noble catlike people as a race, and closed his own game because of all the players meowing. This has similar potential to turn into a silly thing.

Axinian
2013-05-28, 10:52 PM
I don't see why not. Sure. There are other things that are easily turned into fetishes that can be taken seriously in D&D... not sure how many of those I want to name but they're there.

Jay R
2013-05-28, 10:55 PM
Before that question can be answered, we need some background material: What are they for? What kind of fun adventure do they allow?

You cannot evaluate an idea without knowing what the idea is for.

JusticeZero
2013-05-28, 11:03 PM
I can think of all sorts of interesting setting roles they might have that can create adventures. Most of those are exclusive. They aren't any less sensible than tieflings or aasimar or half-dragons.

Mando Knight
2013-05-28, 11:15 PM
Define "legitimate" and "fantasy" (particularly together) (and "goo girl") to get a clearer answer. If "legitimate fantasy" includes 10' cubes of acidic JELL-O lurking in catacombs and flying fire-breathing lizards the size of a house (and can successfully breed with any living corporeal creature) and "goo girl" means a race of sentient oozes that can take humanoid form, then probably. If it includes hyper-logical elves with odd polearms and bumpy-headed orcs with strange double swords and "goo girl" means a race that abhors "solids" but sends out scouts to "blend in" and watch and learn from them anyway, then you just have a medieval fantasy Star Trek, and the question becomes "do you like DS9?"

The concept as has been codified by fetish sites, however, is generally devoid of merit in a "legitimate fantasy," unless you define the terms to include sexual fantasies actually held by fetishists... wherein you begin to ask something akin to "does eČ + πi belong in a set that includes all irrational imaginary numbers?"

Kalirren
2013-05-28, 11:20 PM
I thought that's what elementals -were-. Goo-girl-like things are always what I picture when I flip through the SRD and see the stat blocks divorced of any art.

What do the elementals in the PHB look like anyhow? *goes to look*

CRtwenty
2013-05-28, 11:23 PM
Well first off I wouldn't call them "Goo Girls". But intelligent ooze type monsters would probably fit in most fantasy settings. The humanoid thing would probably just be a shape they take to interact with people.

I've never understood why people are attracted to slime girls. But I've seen it floating around enough places that it seems to be a pretty established thing.

JusticeZero
2013-05-29, 12:04 AM
*shrugs* I think they're cute. I wouldn't want to *do* anything with one, but they're visually interesting. Kind've like a sentient piece of abstract art. I also think furry art is visually appealing, again without actually having any sort of attraction to any of the characters or philosophies associated in it. I assume the fetishists like the art as well, and also have an association with the art that I lack. If they actually exist in great numbers, which I have my doubts about.

Most of the stuff people associate with fetishes in the art department is really just a type of exotic humanoid that people draw because the alien-ness lets them dodge the uncanny valley problems. Of course people draw naked figures a lot because clothes are hard, and female because males are shaped weirdly.

I'm not sure how many "fetishists" there actually are so much as people who like to perv over shortcutted cartoon art instead of photographs of real and presumably inconvenienced and awkward real females in insufficiently-exotic scenes. A lot of racy photos make me think "posing for that stuff looks like a boring and awkward day job.." So I don't see any of the subjects of said art as being suddenly taboo just for being a popular art concept.

A goo that can take a humanoid shape to interact with humans isn't actually any odder than a transparent cubical goo. There may be some crunch issues with figuring out their normal mobility and equipment use - i mean, it's going to be harder for something amorphous to swing a sword without it slipping out of its hand, for instance. And how would a goo prefer to move around? is there something that locks it in a humanoid form, like the cubes? There's probably a story there. But it's probably going to vary by setting.

Hunter Noventa
2013-05-29, 12:41 PM
I actually thought of trying to make something like that once for a campaign, a goo-girl that is, but the only thing I could find was an Amorphous template in savage species, but all it did was severely reduce intelligence and change your type to Ooze.

Makes me want to take a crack at trying to homebrew something like that. The biggest problem would be equipment I think...unless you made it more like the DS9 changelings in that they look humanoid most of the time, and have to go to their 'natural' form after so long. likely during sleep. Possibilities exist, i guess.

Mordar
2013-05-29, 01:40 PM
Well, there have been amorphous sentient critters as player races in other games - Dralasites in Star Frontiers, SpellJammer and D20 Future - so there is at least some precedent. I suspect there have been others as well, and perhaps some in fantasy-themed games (as opposed to Sci-Fi themed games as above).

- M

Ravens_cry
2013-05-29, 02:37 PM
Eh, this might be a hard one to pitch in a serious game due to their association with certain forms of material of, shall we say, fantasy of different sort. A simple sentient ooze would probably easier to handle than something that forms into a female humanoid shaped mass, especially in a sci-fi game. But in typical fantasy? Not so much.

Terraoblivion
2013-05-29, 02:49 PM
A sentient ooze? I don't know how much precedent there is, but sure, why not?

I imagine they would split to reproduce, so their society and culture might seem a bit alien. (No nuclear families, after all.)

That is what you find alien about sentient slime creatures? Their family structure? I would have thought their metabolism, reproduction and general biological needs would come before family structures. A lack of ability to easily make tools seems pretty up there too.

tbok1992
2013-05-29, 03:31 PM
I actually thought of trying to make something like that once for a campaign, a goo-girl that is, but the only thing I could find was an Amorphous template in savage species, but all it did was severely reduce intelligence and change your type to Ooze.

Well, there's the Slyth from the 3e Underdark book, though it comes with a pretty nasty LA, and there's also Mystara's Magens, who are basically wizard-created servitors made out of gel. So D&D does have precedent for it.

Grinner
2013-05-29, 03:37 PM
That is what you find alien about sentient slime creatures? Their family structure? I would have thought their metabolism, reproduction and general biological needs would come before family structures. A lack of ability to easily make tools seems pretty up there too.

Why, yes. Allow me to elaborate...in (terrible) verse!

There once was a man
who sat on the can
thinking about sentient ooze.

He sat there rapt
and quickly tapped
the first thing that seemed true.

His heart full of irreverence,
he had thought only of relevance
to the games of me and you.

"What does it matter how they eat!"
he said, standing upon his feet,
"I think they can make do!"

Xefas
2013-05-29, 03:51 PM
From our very own homebrew forums, courtesy of Lix_Lorn: Estilkians, Sentient Goo-People (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232011).

So, at least you aren't the only one to have the idea.

Excession
2013-05-29, 05:42 PM
For mainstream examples, there's also Inque from Batman Beyond. Crazy powerful, but she had some serious weaknesses to go with it.

JusticeZero
2013-05-29, 07:26 PM
Also, there's the origin that i've used before for similar such species: the original template was created by magic for whatever pervy or ridiculous reason people expect, but that role is not actually inherent to their nature. As a result, the children of the originals do NOT follow that stereotype, and instead carve out a completely different culture for themselves. This can cause that culture to actually be reactionary against the stereotype - depict them as being completely counter to the stereotype, a bit like a number of minorities of a group stereotyped as being poor and slovenly who are insistent on always wearing more formal clothes than anyone else around them.

Vknight
2013-05-29, 08:18 PM
I have somewhere a wizard.
And the idea for him was, he loved art of any sort.

Stone or Iron Golems built into specific shapes.
And a slew of Goo Girls that were to take on abstract shapes, designs etc

Also they are adorable just so adorable.

Rhynn
2013-05-29, 08:23 PM
Ghaunadans are intelligent slime-things that take humanoid shape in the Forgotten Realms, and go back at least to AD&D 2E. Wouldn't quite call that an "archetype" yet, but hey.

The Call of Cthulhu RPG has Shoggoth Lords, intelligent shoggoths that are capable of taking human shape (although usually appearing corpulent and a bit "wrong"); one of the older editions of CoC, with the series of full-page color paintings in the middle, had a horrible image of a skinless-looking fat physician that I always associate with shoggoth lords. (That art was freaking horrifying when I was a little kid.) Shoggoths, meanwhile, are basically the original ooze monster (although in D&D, the gibbering mouther is a closer match).

Crasical
2013-05-29, 10:27 PM
Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

Rhynn
2013-05-29, 10:31 PM
Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

"Oh, sweetie. Sweetie honey. That was never, ever a hindrance." (http://www.shortpacked.com/2013/comic/book-15/01-about-face/hindrance/)

Incidentally, even the BoEF doesn't ponder this stuff. It just observes that slimes reproduce by splitting.

DigoDragon
2013-05-30, 06:33 AM
"Oh, sweetie. Sweetie honey. That was never, ever a hindrance." (http://www.shortpacked.com/2013/comic/book-15/01-about-face/hindrance/)

Um... yeah. Scary and true. :smalltongue:


Anyway, I just wanted to say that these kinds of ideas can become a more serious "thing" beyond a fetish, *IF* your players are willing to be mature and work with you on it.

For example,
My group was recently in a homebrew campaign I had been running for a few years and one of the races is essentially "catgirls". However, my players didn't stick on the usual cliches of a catgirl. We actually created a rich history for the race and took the idea seriously enough that now they are a society of builders (somewhat like dwarves).
Its one of the more popular race my players enjoy picking and they have a good variety of different character concepts using them.

GnomeFighter
2013-05-30, 07:33 AM
Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

No, the whole thing falls apart as soon as you look at the drawings of leather armour (especially female leather armour) in most source books.

Anyway, I see no problem with the concept, just the name and the pitching of it. Pitch it as a sentient ooze and go from there. Do not use the phrase Goo Girl as the first thing one of the group will do is get out there phone and search for "Goo Girl"... What you will find is most defiantly not PG13...

Jay R
2013-05-30, 08:25 AM
First, no, they are not a fantasy archetype.

But yes, you can use them if you want to. Flumphs, Gelatinous Cubes, Acid Sharks, and many other D&D monsters aren't fantasy archetypes either.

But before introducing goo girls into your game, ask yourself what they add.

Do they represent a serious threat? Are they valuable for some purpose? Do they have something the PCs need? Why is this encounter goo girls instead of humans?

Why are you using them?

Terraoblivion
2013-05-30, 08:37 AM
First, no, they are not a fantasy archetype.

Given how frequently they come up, it seems like, yes, they are. Even if the kind of fantasy they're an archetype in is mostly Japanese porn inspired by Dragon Quest. It's still fantasy and a rather common kind given how insanely productive Japan is and how dominant in shaping the view of fantasy that Dragon Quest is over there and it is by no means always porn they show up in either.

Mewtarthio
2013-05-30, 05:36 PM
I kind of feel like it defeats the whole point of goo when you give it human form (unless you're going all T-1000 with malleability and rapid shapeshifting).

Steward
2013-05-30, 05:43 PM
A creature that may fit this archetype may be the yochlols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yochlol) featured in Fiendish Codex 1. These creatures, which are portrayed as the handmaidens of the drow spider-goddess Lolth, are sentient lumps of foul slime that have the power to reconstitute themselves into alternate forms, including attractive women or spiders. They are demons and play a similar role for Lolth's faction that erinyes do for devils and succubi do for the tanar'ri (demonkind).

Morph Bark
2013-05-31, 06:49 AM
Chaos from the Sonic franchise is basically this, when it hasn't absorbed any emeralds.

Wardog
2013-06-14, 12:47 PM
A creature that may fit this archetype may be the yochlols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yochlol) featured in Fiendish Codex 1. These creatures, which are portrayed as the handmaidens of the drow spider-goddess Lolth, are sentient lumps of foul slime that have the power to reconstitute themselves into alternate forms, including attractive women or spiders.

Do you mean "attractive women, or spiders", or "attractive women, or attractive spiders"?

CRtwenty
2013-06-14, 12:52 PM
Do you mean "attractive women, or spiders", or "attractive women, or attractive spiders"?

It's Lolth so I'm going to go with "all of the above"

Rainbownaga
2013-06-14, 10:05 PM
I think slime-people are more of a Japanese rpg thing than a d&d thing.

Non-humanoid slimes are a staple of low level monsters in JRPG video games (unlike in d&d where slimes are basically designed to screw fighters).

The Jell from monster ranchers is a male "goo-girl".

Juvia from Fairytale (Anime/manga) is functionally a goo-girl.


Alex Mack is almost a slime girl.

And since most of these sources are aimed at kids, I'm guessing it's not just a fetish thing.

TheCrowing1432
2013-06-14, 11:53 PM
Fetish's aside, this has the potential to be a pretty broken monster type or PC.

depending on what powers you give them.

I mean look at Majin Buu from Dragon Ball Z, thats basically what he was, sentiant goo.

Goo-Girls could potentially

-be unkillable, either due to their regeneration abilities or the fact that weapons would just sink into their body without causing harm.

-shapeshift, if the goo is maliable, theres no reason why they would be unable to change their apperance, turn their hands into claws, axes, etc.

-be able to change sizes be inflating or deflating their bodies

-be able to break mechanics wide open by stretching. Need to jump to a place? nah ill just stretch myself over there. Enemy 30 feet away? Ill stretch attack him.

I could go on.

Rainbownaga
2013-06-15, 12:04 AM
Fetish's aside, this has the potential to be a pretty broken monster type or PC.

depending on what powers you give them.

I mean look at Majin Buu from Dragon Ball Z, thats basically what he was, sentiant goo.

Goo-Girls could potentially

-be unkillable, either due to their regeneration abilities or the fact that weapons would just sink into their body without causing harm.

-shapeshift, if the goo is maliable, theres no reason why they would be unable to change their apperance, turn their hands into claws, axes, etc.

-be able to change sizes be inflating or deflating their bodies

-be able to break mechanics wide open by stretching. Need to jump to a place? nah ill just stretch myself over there. Enemy 30 feet away? Ill stretch attack him.

I could go on.

This is one of the reasons I think they would be better suited as a class than a race. Being able to slip under doors, resist (but not totally negate) damage and attack enemies at a distance is less 'broken' and more 'potential tools to make a tier 3-4 class.

The other reason is that 'getting slimed' happens so much in d&d already (aboleths, green slime, etc) that occasionally having a creature get turned into a sentient slime instead of melting is bound to happen evenentually.

I've been meaning to make a slime class for a while now.

TheCrowing1432
2013-06-15, 12:07 AM
Do you mean "attractive women, or spiders", or "attractive women, or attractive spiders"?

...this is worth sigging

tbok1992
2013-06-15, 12:11 AM
Fetish's aside, this has the potential to be a pretty broken monster type or PC.

depending on what powers you give them.

I mean look at Majin Buu from Dragon Ball Z, thats basically what he was, sentiant goo.

Goo-Girls could potentially

-be unkillable, either due to their regeneration abilities or the fact that weapons would just sink into their body without causing harm.

-shapeshift, if the goo is maliable, theres no reason why they would be unable to change their apperance, turn their hands into claws, axes, etc.

-be able to change sizes be inflating or deflating their bodies

-be able to break mechanics wide open by stretching. Need to jump to a place? nah ill just stretch myself over there. Enemy 30 feet away? Ill stretch attack him.

I could go on.

Well, one could make a slightly more malleable version of D&D's Magens (Who are a seriously underrated monster IMHO) for as a race for that archetype, and use feats for the abilities.

TheCrowing1432
2013-06-15, 12:12 AM
This is one of the reasons I think they would be better suited as a class than a race. Being able to slip under doors, resist (but not totally negate) damage and attack enemies at a distance is less 'broken' and more 'potential tools to make a tier 3-4 class.

The other reason is that 'getting slimed' happens so much in d&d already (aboleths, green slime, etc) that occasionally having a creature get turned into a sentient slime instead of melting is bound to happen evenentually.

I've been meaning to make a slime class for a while now.

....Slime class?

People learned to become a slime?

That doesnt make any sense.

If anything it would be a template.

Rainbownaga
2013-06-15, 12:30 AM
....Slime class?

People learned to become a slime?

That doesnt make any sense.

If anything it would be a template.

I was thinking more of a monster-class, but I like the idea of someone needing to learn how to take full advantage of their slimy powers.

A template would be good for monsters, but for PCs the gradual escalation of powers from the low level slime-girl to the nigh immortal protean killing machines would be far more appropriate (and fun).

Morph Bark
2013-06-15, 04:13 AM
....Slime class?

People learned to become a slime?

That doesnt make any sense.

If anything it would be a template.

There are already a ton of classes that turn you into another creature type, or grant you another form, either slowly throughout your progress in the class, or right away.

Hyena
2013-06-15, 05:19 AM
Just refluff shardmind.

Starbuck_II
2013-06-15, 08:55 AM
No, the whole thing falls apart as soon as you look at the drawings of leather armour (especially female leather armour) in most source books.

Anyway, I see no problem with the concept, just the name and the pitching of it. Pitch it as a sentient ooze and go from there. Do not use the phrase Goo Girl as the first thing one of the group will do is get out there phone and search for "Goo Girl"... What you will find is most defiantly not PG13...

Actually it is PG 13, I get Jello looking girls, elemental girls, cute Asian babes, and Spice Girls (one of these aren't like the others). The Jello ones are mostly naked though I'll admit, but everyone else is clothed.

Mutazoia
2013-06-15, 08:56 AM
I imagine they would split to reproduce, so their society and culture might seem a bit alien. (No nuclear families, after all.)

Maybe more of an amorphous nuclei family?

Mutazoia
2013-06-15, 08:58 AM
....Slime class?

People learned to become a slime?

That doesnt make any sense.

If anything it would be a template.

Yeah...Slime class...I know a lot of people who are slime...the PRC would be Lounge Lizard.

Prime32
2013-06-15, 11:13 AM
Relevant (www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1776) .

MukkTB
2013-06-15, 11:56 AM
Odo from DS9 proves that the concept has traction outside of porn. Note that Odo is more a shapeshifter with a slime mold as his native form, rather than a human shaped slime mold. Its a subtle difference.

Goo girls is something I heard about as a porn thing. If you include one, and don't actually use the term, I imagine people unfamiliar with them will continue none the wiser, but people who are familiar with that will then know that you are as well.

I don't think sexually charged content is unallowable in D&D. The game includes a number of monsters and things from past times that were considered sexually charged. Many of them want to both screw you and eat you, sirens, succubus, ect. (I guess D&D nerds have the same kind of sexual issues experienced by New England Puritans?)

Things can become uncomfortable in D&D when sex gets involved, but the problem comes in more when it actually comes to the real thing. Dealing with peripheral events is fine, unless you're a 13 year old and girls give you cooties.

In general, in relation to pulling any of these out without previous discussion with the players:
Girls: Fine
Sensuality: Fine
Romance:Fine
Relationships: Fine
Monsters that prey on insecure male sexuality: Expected
Sex Acts: Not Fine

tbok1992
2013-06-15, 02:22 PM
In general, in relation to pulling any of these out without previous discussion with the players:
Girls: Fine
Sensuality: Fine
Romance:Fine
Relationships: Fine
Monsters that prey on insecure male sexuality: Expected
Sex Acts: Not Fine

Yeah, agreed. I have my own rules, which are "When in doubt; fade to black", "No one wants to see your wizard's #$%&" and; for DMs, "No one wants to enter your magical realm (http://gunshowcomic.com/471)."

I will never NOT find that Gunshow comic funny.

aura59
2013-06-23, 10:13 AM
Oi back say a year ago we slapped together a jelly lycanthropy class. in the end its just too overpowered. its fun - oooooh so fun but will piss off your companions when you can just slide under locked doors

hamiltond465
2013-06-24, 08:06 PM
There is a story by Larro over on TGchan that has a slime-person as it's main protagonist.
http://www.tgchan.org/wiki/Amorphia

TGchan is actually a bleeding treasure trove of non-standard fantasy stories. It's a shame so few of them actually reach an ending.

Kane0
2013-06-24, 10:21 PM
So, do you think the concept could become a "thing" beyond the fetish fuel of lonely nerds?


Seems legit to me. Go watch a bit of Adventure Time and tell me a goo-girl wouldn't fit in perfectly.

Most fantasy creatures run the possibility of being festishified (is that a word?), look at dragons and the fact that they can make viable offspring with virtually any mortal corporeal creature. So in most cases the reverse should work too, making something originally fetishist in origin more or less normal, like say vampires (see: the Twilight series).

And then you have arguments like Rule 42 and Bronies/Furries, but i'm not touching that.

Edit: Also, i find it amusing how many in this thread go to great lengths to make it clear they are not sexually attracted to Goo-girls, they just like the concept/artwork.

Togath
2013-06-25, 12:54 AM
If it counts, for another example of a humanoid ooze, there's Zac from LoL.
Zac's more of an "it", but it is a humanoid ooze none the less:smallsmile:

My avatar sort of counts as well, since I've always been a fan(in a "I like the concept" way, not in a perverted way) of the trope.