Forest Gnomes: Downside? What downside?

[Preaplanes]

I've been reading through my 3.5e monster manual and I came across the Forest Gnome, which I had overlooked before. And what I saw shocked me, especially since it was in a core book.

Forest Gnome

They are the smallest of all the gnomes, averaging 2 to 2½ feet in height, but look just like regular gnomes except with bark-colored or gray-green skin, and eyes that can be brown or green as well as blue. A very long-lived people, forest gnomes have an average life expectancy of 500 years.
Forest Gnome Traits (Ex)

These traits are in addition to the rock gnome traits, except where noted.

Pass without Trace (Su): A forest gnome has the innate ability to use pass without trace (self only, as a free action) as the spell cast by a druid of the forest gnome’s class levels.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds, goblinoids, orcs, and reptilian humanoids.
Automatic Languages: Gnome, Elven, Sylvan, and a simple language that enables them to communicate on a very basic level with forest animals (this replaces the rock gnome’s speak with animals ability). Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin, Orc. This trait replaces the rock gnome’s automatic and bonus languages.
+4 racial bonus on Hide checks, which improves to +8 in a wooded area.


No level adjustment.

So for all of that, they just lose speaking Common as an automatic language, and the ability to speak to non-woodland burrowing animals for a minute a day.

Is it just me, or are these borderline-tiny guys just better than their PHB Rock Gnome cousins? :smalltongue: Just what is the downside to choosing this subrace?

Anything else this plainly superior? Particularly in core books, but splatbooks deserve an honorary mention if their brokenness is subtle.

Also, out of curiosity: just how much would you say a 2-foot Gnome weighs, given that most are a little over 3 feet?

[Keld Denar]

While they are better than rock gnomes, they aren't THAT much better. Certainly not "broken". They are no dwarf, no human, no warforged, no kobold, no strongheart halfling, and no whisper gnome. All of those races are a full head and shoulders above any type of gnome, except a Shadowcraft Mage, and the abilities that forest gnomes get don't synergize that amazingly with ScM to the point where they are broken.

[Zombulian]

While they are better than rock gnomes, they aren't THAT much better. Certainly not "broken". They are no dwarf, no human, no warforged, no kobold, no strongheart halfling, and no whisper gnome. All of those races are a full head and shoulders above any type of gnome, except a Shadowcraft Mage, and the abilities that forest gnomes get don't synergize that amazingly with ScM to the point where they are broken.

Any type? What about Arcane Gnomes? +2 int +2 con -2 Wis -2 Str and UMD always as a class ability.

[ArcturusV]

It's one of the reasons I like Spiritfolk (From Oriental Adventures). It's a similarly subtle thing that most people don't really think of. Having the Spirit Subtype (As additional, not instead of Humanoid) comes with more benefits than drawbacks. Most of the drawbacks are little used, hinky spells effecting you negatively like Protection from Spirits or Invisibility to Spirits.

Sure, no bonus skills or bonus feat, but some solidly useful abilities gained. No drawbacks, other than fluffwise some potential Peasant Worship of you. They make for some decent characters. And if I was going on an aquatic adventure of some sort I'd rather have a River Spirit Folk than a Sea Elf or one of the other Aquatic Races, who all seem to have some fairly crippling drawbacks if you ever go back to land or unfavorable penalties to reward the bonus of being able to swim naturally, etc.

[Cruiser1]

It's one of the reasons I like Spiritfolk (From Oriental Adventures).
Note Spirit Folk were reprinted in the FR book Unapproachable East. Instead of Bamboo, River, and Sea types (OA), they've changed to River and Mountain types (UE). Spirit Folk "have no facial or body hair, but the hair on their heads is thick and luxurious". In addition to their other advantages, it's a great race for adventurers, since you don't ever have to shave or bikini wax! :smallsmile:

[ZamielVanWeber]

And losing the ability to speak common can be mote obnoxious then you think.

[prufock]

And losing the ability to speak common can be mote obnoxious then you think.

Yes but easily fixed by choosing it as a bonus language or spending a skill point or two on it.

[Worira]

How often have you worried about enemies tracking your footprints, really?

[Raineh Daze]

While they are better than rock gnomes, they aren't THAT much better. Certainly not "broken". They are no dwarf, no human, no warforged, no kobold, no strongheart halfling, and no whisper gnome. All of those races are a full head and shoulders above any type of gnome, except a Shadowcraft Mage, and the abilities that forest gnomes get don't synergize that amazingly with ScM to the point where they are broken.

'All of those races'

'Whisper gnome'

'Whisper gnomes are a full head and shoulders above any type of gnome'. I... what. @_@

[Coidzor]

How often have you worried about enemies tracking your footprints, really?

...I was mentally confusing it with Woodland Stride and thinking at least it could be used as a prereq sometimes. x.x

[StreamOfTheSky]

Forest Gnome is just plain better than regular gnome. But regular gnome is pretty subpar for anything other than illusionist anyway and the free benefits really aren't that amazing at all.

It'd be like if one feat gave you +20 hp over 20 levels and another gave you +21. You'd take the latter and indeed it obsoletes the former, but should you really care?