tips for new dm: maintaining balance

[my13]

i participate in 2 campains with the same group of people. in one i am a player, the other i dm. this is my first time as a dm and my pcs are very experienced and most have been a dm in the past. while i appreciate thier guidance, i have had akward times where they will assume role and decide for themselves what numbers should be what... in some cases they are correct, but in some cases they are not. i need suggestions to try and maintain control?

[Azoth]

The first suggestion is to calmly and peaceably offer them your thanks for their assistance in the past, but to inform them that you are DMing at this time, and that unless you specifically ask for their assistance it would be greatly appreciated if they allowed you to do your job and run the campaign as you intend.

Barring that approach...a flying DMG to the head usually shuts someone up.

[ArcturusV]

Surprising players tends to work. When they start doing something like "I roll a ____ and my bonuses of ____ means I hit the AC of that Ogre because I know it's only ____ from the MM..." you just sit back, smile a bit and go "Nope". If you're generous (And not afraid of slowing down the game a bit) provide a clue for why they are wrong with some in game description of why it didn't hit (Natural armor? Oh, it barely penetrated the thick hide and doesn't seem to be hurt. Deflection bonus? Halfway through your swing the ogre's backhand comes around knocking your blade off target. Etc, etc, etc)

A few times getting "noped" like that tends to make people start asking if something succeeds rather than already dancing over their success. Don't do it all the time. Just do it when they actually are wrong.

[Miranius]

Group dynamics can be hard to handle sometimes, but normally you`ll just need to cut short a few "discussions" and remind them that , while you`re willing to double-check, unless they want to spend 2/3 of their game-time checking numbers, they should just let you DM.

[Gerrtt]

The passive-aggressive me wants you to do the same to them in their games. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, after :smallamused:all.

But what you really aught to do is just talk to them about it. My wife and I have this theory that like 90% of movies and TV shows simply wouldn't happen if people just talked to each other instead of all the running around they do trying to hide the truth.

All you have to do is say "I'm running this game, but thank you for your input. In the mean time, this ogre doesn't have the same AC as the ogre in the MM, so you miss." Of course, only do that if it's true; don't just be a jerk and say stuff doesn't work because you want to get back at them...as that is also passive aggressive. The goal is to communicate what you're thinking/feeling in a meaningful, polite way.

[Miranius]

On that point, i always had one effective point in my games as a DM to discourage metagamers: if you metagame, it gets bigger!
For example: oh, though your character has never seen an undead skeleton you`re so very sure your party can take it without plan or caution because YOU know it? let`s see how you fare with 5 more HD on it and, let`s say, 3 applicable templates. :smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

On that point, i always had one effective point in my games as a DM to discourage metagamers: if you metagame, it gets bigger!
For example: oh, though your character has never seen an undead skeleton you`re so very sure your party can take it without plan or caution because YOU know it? let`s see how you fare with 5 more HD on it and, let`s say, 3 applicable templates. :smallbiggrin:

Does this also apply if the players metagame to recognize a Doomsphere at level 2 and try to run away, fast?

[Fyermind]

I had a DM that kept a zippo next to his dice with a post it on it reading "For unruly player's sheets" If players didn't let him DM, he'd reach for the lighter. It worked like a charm.

More realistically, use custom monsters or monsters not directly pulled from sourcebooks. Let the players make knowledge checks. Never identify the monster by species or class unless the characters would already know.

Asking the players not to metagame also helps sometimes. They are experienced. They should know what that means.

[yougi]

Asking the players not to metagame also helps sometimes. They are experienced. They should know what that means.

That.

Or, modify the monsters' fluff: instead of describing the troll as full of warts, large nose and green, describe it as a red scaly giant; instead of describing a red dragon, describe a gigantic insect that breathes fire.

Of course, you have to stay consistent: if dragons are insects, all dragons should be, so that what the players learn from your world (representing their characters' learning) stays true.

And allows knowledge checks so the players know what their characters should know too. Sometimes it's hard to decide where to draw the line.

[Eldariel]

Just make it clear almost none of the monsters you run are straight from MM; they might have levels (combat training), extra HD or two (bigger/more physically developed than usual), some special breed (template) or whatever. And they might have different feats/skills. There are tools for figuring stuff out in-character, so this isn't even a problem or anything.

Adjusting such changes on the fly isn't really overtly difficult and the system works just fine either way. What this really accomplishes is makes every ogre/orc/goblin/human/halfling/gnome/whatevercommonrace you kill a bit more individualistic than "generic orc", "generic goblin", "generic human" or whatever.


But the matter itself, of course - players trying to DM for the new DM - is a matter of discussion, as has been repeatedly said. Just say you'll ask for numbers when you need 'em and that you'd like to run the game on your own and such and it should be fine. Oh, and yeah, the whole metagaming-bit; their character is less likely to know the element of a Green Dragon's breath weapon than the player (there are Knowledge-skills for that).

[my13]

thank you for your tips... when i started my game a while back, i decided to make my own monsters to go with my theme so that part has not been much of an issue once they realized they havent seen them before. things have been going smoother since i have mde my position more clear, mostly with sarcasm lol.