quick and dirty lvl 1 undead character?

[Phaederkiel]

In a new campaign I want to play an undead character.
I either want to be a monk who meditated so long that he died without noticing or some kind of barbarian who fell into a bog.

So I need a suitable low-powered way to become undead at lvl1, preferably with a class lvl still attached.

necropolitan and starting at -1000xp is one solution, but surely the playground has some good ideas.

I'd like to be a skeleton, if possible.:smallredface:

[Urpriest]

There basically aren't any options at level 1. Being undead gives a huge list of immunities, so it takes some character resources. Necropolitan is basically the absolute minimum example of that (and you can't start as one at level one even with XP debt, owing to the fact that if you become one without enough XP you're destroyed). In order to make being undead balanced at level 1 you'd want something like a Warforged, with a subtype that tones down the immunities of the undead type.

The other option is to start with no class levels but as part of an undead progression. Vampire Spawn from Libris Mortis is probably the best such option.

Finally, there are ways to start out with a level adjustment even at level 1, if your DM is ok with them. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Player's Guide to Faerun both have variants that do this. With that in mind, Gravetouched Ghoul would be the best option, at LA +2.

[Just to Browse]

The undead classes in Libris Mortis have a special addendum that lets you multiclass out if it's your first class level, but that is your first level.

Awaken undead is a thing, but ideally the best way to represent it is to pay for the casting (a 7th-level sor/wiz spell and 200 XP) which is a bit out of bounds for a standard level 1 character.

The Tome of Necromancy has LA +0 undead templates (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_of_Necromancy_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/New_Rules#Becoming_Undead) but that's homebrew and comes with additional undead rules so you're not immune to everything.

You could also take Tomb Tainted Soul and pretend you're dead, but it doesn't lend to the concept of skeleton very well.

[Phaederkiel]

well, we expect the campaign to be about 3 lvls long, so la+2 is not very good.

My dm is ok with some shenanigans, as long as I play monk...

[Maginomicon]

From Savage Species, you can take Monster Levels and be a Ghast, a Ghoul, a Mummy, or a Shadow at ECL 1. However, since there's been changes to the monster entries since that book was published, your GM would probably have to rebuild the monster classes to fit the updated ability set for a given monster.

So far as being a monk, there's no reason you couldn't simply act like a monk within the mental capabilities of the undead you choose. This would be in the same way that you can be an assassin without taking the "assassin" prestige class. If you really must be a "monk", you could ask your GM to possibly allow you to gestalt monk levels with your monster class levels.

[Darrin]

Best I could come up with would be an Anthropomorphic Octopus (or really, any anthropomorphic animal with 2 monstrous humanoid HD and LA +0). Apply Necropolitan template to go down to 1 HD, then swap that 1 HD for a class level. And all this assumes that your DM handwaves racial HD as the equivalent of having XP.

Of course, if your DM is ok with that, you could try all of that on a Tauric template chassis:

Start with a Phynxkin (Dragon Magic) + Lesser Planetouched Aasimar (PGtF). Throw every template you can think of on the lower half that can be applied to animals and/or magical beasts. This gives you a monstrous humanoid with 2 racial HD and LA +3. Apply Effigy -> Incarnate Construct for 2 HD, LA +1. Throw on something with LA +1 (Mineral Warrior, Feral, or Lolth-Touched), then do Effigy -> Incarnate Construct again for 2 HD, LA +0. Now apply Necropolitcan for 1 HD, LA +0. Replace your remaining racial HD for a class level. If your DM actually allows this, walk away slowly and do not make any sudden movements.

[mabriss lethe]

If Tome of Battle is allowed, you could think about snagging Martial Study and martial stance with your feats. Use martial study for Crusader's strike. and Stance to pick up Martial spirit. Those two will allow you to heal yourself when you hurt your enemies and could easily be refluffed as some sort of weak undead/vampiric life draining attack.

Death Devotion is also a plausible choice for feats, allowing you to imbue your melee attacks with the ability to deal negative levels for 10 rounds 1/day.

Neither of these will be incredibly useful for higher level play, but for the low level of game you expect to play, they'll both shine rather well.

[Phaederkiel]

oh gosh, darrin...

I should have mentioned that my girlfriend is dm?
And that I search for a low-power-way to be an undead with class levels.
As in: the other guys play mostly core.

I tip my hat to your ability to horrify my inner dm in so few lines.:smallamused:

[Coidzor]

Refluff a Warforged?

[Phaederkiel]

That is probably the cleanest solution. That, or my Dm loaning me 1000 exp.

But how to refluff a warforged?
what do undeads have what warforgeds haven't?

Should we just remove the "no constitution score"-clause, and roll with it?

Because that warforged bonus looks really bland without a constitution score.

Undeads have some more immunities than warforgeds, who are only partly construct or something like that, isn't it?

[Urpriest]

That is probably the cleanest solution. That, or my Dm loaning me 1000 exp.

But how to refluff a warforged?
what do undeads have what warforgeds haven't?

Should we just remove the "no constitution score"-clause, and roll with it?

Because that warforged bonus looks really bland without a constitution score.

Undeads have some more immunities than warforgeds, who are only partly construct or something like that, isn't it?

That's the point. You use a Warforged, so you don't have the full undead set of immunities.

That said, I think there are two possibilities here. Either you want a RAW way to be an undead at first level, or you want to homebrew something and have an argument for your girlfriend about why it is balanced. Which are you looking for?

[zlefin]

You could use the pathfinder race creating point buy system to get something that should be a level 1 undead.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/arg-creating-new-races
I can make something suitable from that quite easily; as they say, due to the numerous bonuses of being undead, a no LA undead race would come with some penalties.

[Phaederkiel]

That's the point. You use a Warforged, so you don't have the full undead set of immunities.

That said, I think there are two possibilities here. Either you want a RAW way to be an undead at first level, or you want to homebrew something and have an argument for your girlfriend about why it is balanced. Which are you looking for?

I was obviously hoping for something raw and balanced, and am a bit flabbergasted to find that wizard never provided a simple skeleton player race.

But if Raw and balanced is not possible, i'd go with homebrew and balanced.
That makes it much less probable that i get to play the guy, though.

Warforged feels somewhat weird to me. I can easily refluff the plating as having no flesh and thus being harder to hit, or as a breastplate simply glued into my bones with rust, but having a constitution score feels wrong.

Can you help me, which immunities do undeads get which warforgeds do not get? I am severly lacking the books in that regard, it seems.

[Phaederkiel]

sorry for the double post. But i want to reply to Zlefin separatedly

is this for example something you deem as a la+0 race in 3.5 ?
-4 cha
-2 int
+2 dex

20 ft speed
Members of this race have darkvision 90 feet; however, they are automatically dazzled in bright light and take a –2 penalty on saving throws against effects with the light descriptor. A dazzled creature takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls and sight-based Perception checks

it comes out at exactly 10 creation points, which is upper limit for normal classes. (humans 9, half elves 11, dwarfes 11, elves 10, although i am not entirely sure the races are completely the same to 3.5)

[Urpriest]

I was obviously hoping for something raw and balanced, and am a bit flabbergasted to find that wizard never provided a simple skeleton player race.

But if Raw and balanced is not possible, i'd go with homebrew and balanced.
That makes it much less probable that i get to play the guy, though.

Warforged feels somewhat weird to me. I can easily refluff the plating as having no flesh and thus being harder to hit, or as a breastplate simply glued into my bones with rust, but having a constitution score feels wrong.

Can you help me, which immunities do undeads get which warforgeds do not get? I am severly lacking the books in that regard, it seems.

Again, the whole point is that you have a Con score. Not having a Con score is in general not appropriate without at least the cost inherent in Necropolitan. That's....why there's a cost in Necropolitan.

With Living Construct, you have the following traits different from normal living creatures: immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, sickened, energy drain, cannot heal naturally, half healing from healing spells (and full benefit from repair spells), some misc warforged material stuff that we'll probably change, disabled at zero rather than destroyed, no need to eat, sleep, or breathe

a full-fledged Construct would instead have the following: Con -- (with all that entails), low-light vision and darkvision, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects, cannot heal naturally, no healing from healing spells (and full benefit from repair spells), not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain, immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless), not at risk of death from massive damage, immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less, cannot be raised or resurrected, no need to eat, sleep, or breathe

a full-fledged Undead would have: Con -- (with all that entails), darkvision, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects, not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage (physical scores only), ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain, cannot heal naturally, no healing from healing spells (and full benefit from inflict spells), immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless), not at risk of death from massive damage, immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less, cannot be raised or resurrected, no need to eat, sleep, or breathe

What the existence of Warforged tells you is that in order to be balanced at LA +0 without a cost like Necropolitan, you need to make a Living Undead type that would be roughly like so:

Living Undead: immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, sickened, energy drain, cannot heal naturally, half healing from healing spells (and full benefit from inflict spells), disabled at zero rather than destroyed, no need to eat, sleep, or breathe

In particular, you don't want Con --. Con -- gives a whole mess of immunities, including immunity to most things that target two out of your three saves. It's really not sensible to just slap it on a LA +0 race.

[zlefin]

That's close, but it has to be a bit weaker; races in 3.5 come out around 1-2 points lower than they do in pathfinder by the point system. I think the undead immunities are a bit better in 3.5 than they are in pathfinder, but generally comparable, so I'd say try to get 2 points lower.
The most expensive weakness on the list says to stay in mental or physical abilities; so i'd change the +2 from dex to wis perhaps; having the dump stat be cha, the most common dump stat in the game, feels a bit gamey, i'd switch it to -4 int with -2 cha. Or perhaps remove the +2 entirely, pathfinder races have +2 stat bonus total, while 3.5 generally has them even on stats; so when adjusting for the differences in standards, removing the +2 would be reasonable.
Remember that light blindness also blinds you for one round if you suddenly enter an area of bright light from an area of less light.

While it's not covered by the rules there directly, if you don't like any of the other disadvantages for lowering point cost, or your dm balks, lowering another stat by 2 may help.

[Waitingnomad]

Necropolitan reduces you by a level and -1000XP as if you had died (which flavour-wise, you do as a part of the ritual). This means the earliest you can actually become a necropolitan is at 2nd level with over 1000XP. Unless you can convince your DM to allow you to change that into LA+1, or fudge the rules to allow you to begin at -1000XP you're going to have to look at other options. In a 3 level campaign, this probably means you wont be getting higher than 2nd level, but in return your HD change to d12 and you get all the undead immunities + fast healing and claws as a natural attack (which I believe increases your unarmed damage as a monk). Read the necropolitan fluff and come up with a convincing backstory to convince your DM with- if as you said she's willing to bend things a little so long as you stay a Monk, you may be alright. Her being your gf doesn't hurt either. Otherwise, you're stuck with Tomb Tainted Soul (which doesn't really make you undead anyway), or the other options mentioned here.

[Phaederkiel]

Living Undead: immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, sickened, energy drain, cannot heal naturally, half healing from healing spells (and full benefit from inflict spells), disabled at zero rather than destroyed, no need to eat, sleep, or breathe

In particular, you don't want Con --. Con -- gives a whole mess of immunities, including immunity to most things that target two out of your three saves. It's really not sensible to just slap it on a LA +0 race.

I thank you alot for compiling this list.
But do not warforgeds get a hit to 2 dump stats and a bonus to con, which is a really nice stat to have indeed, as well as this armor bonus (which is admittedly not that good, except for a monk, where it seems to really shine) ?

This should perhaps be reflected in the stats of the skeleton. For example:
Cut the con bonus, cut the armor. Keep the -2 int, -2 cha.
Gain darkvision, gain dmg reduction 5 / bludgeoning.

@zlefin:
I think that -4 charisma fits a lot better fluffwise. and yes, it is a bit gamey.
But if i go that way, I will simply build the human my skeleton was made of with a 12 or 14 constitution instead of the assumed 10. He was a fighter while living.

@Waiting:
My dm would probably loan me 1000 xp to get rid of the problem, but beeing a skeleton seems so much funnier than being a withered white man.
As a monk i could hit people with a nunchuck which is my other arm...good times.

[Waitingnomad]

If you can spare the gold, make sure to spellstitch yourself for bonus SR, DR and TR as well as +2 to all saves. Also be sure that if your transformation into an undead involves a ritual of any kind (e.g. becoming a necropolitan) you have it performed within a desecrated area for +1 HP per HD (+2 if there's a shrine or other relevant and appropriately fancy permanent fixture present!)


My dm would probably loan me 1000 xp to get rid of the problem, but beeing a skeleton seems so much funnier than being a withered white man.If its any consolation, you get glowing eyes :smallcool: That said, an arm-chuck is pretty hilarious. If you ever lose your nunchucks you can always grab a femur and start whacking.

[Spuddles]

Level 3 character + necropolitan = level 1 char with 500xp.

Now find a way to spend that 500xp and you are good to go. Note that with actual level loss, your WBL will also decrease.

This fits nicely with a char who has been in a bog or meditating for so long he died and lost all his stuff and most of skills.