Ahoy thee Matey! (Yes [You know who you are], this is for our campaign :p)

[Gwazi Magnum]

This thread will only really be relevant for a few hours on account of me being a bit idea dead for past week and working on something to be used in a few hours.

Basically, in a recent campaign I played a Barbarian Water Orc who died trying fight a demon solo. In this campaign the theme seems to be they're all crew members on a ship so it seems to be a kind of ship/pirate like campaign.

With access to all of core, the spell compedium and all the completes what kind of ideas can you think of for a character that might work in this campaign?

Note, my previous character seem to fill the teams only tank/melee monster role with everyone else being a kind of spell caster or a flying archer. So for the sake of complementing the team this next character should probably also have some tanking capabilities.

I'd rather avoid Barbarian though for this one if I can since my last character for this campaign was also one.

For ability scores I can either use this array: 15, 13, 13, 13, 13, 7

or use the 28 point build.

[Fyermind]

Well if you are fighting on a ship, a trip and bullrush fighter is a lot of fun. fighting underwater is harder to be relevant as anything other than a damage dealer. If you can get Knight allowed from PHB2, you can play a very different style of melee tank.

[Kazyan]

What about a battlefield controller? Considering the circumstances of the end of the Barbarian...

Or maybe a Hexblade? They can whack stuff, have d10 hit dice, and their familiars are durable/strong enough to be helpful. It's better to lose a waterballoon full of XP than a party member, anyway. Consider Complete Warrior's improved familiars when we get to level 9, as well.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Well if you are fighting on a ship, a trip and bullrush fighter is a lot of fun. fighting underwater is harder to be relevant as anything other than a damage dealer. If you can get Knight allowed from PHB2, you can play a very different style of melee tank.

What special relevance would trips and bullrushs have when on a ship?

Also a Knight on a pirate like ship seems odd at the least.


What about a battlefield controller? Considering the circumstances of the end of the Barbarian...

Or maybe a Hexblade? They can whack stuff, have d10 hit dice, and their familiars are durable/strong enough to be helpful. It's better to lose a waterballoon full of XP than a party member, anyway. Consider Complete Warrior's improved familiars when we get to level 9, as well.

Looked at it, it's interested but curses aren't really my style :/

[Kazyan]

Hmm. I'm at a loss for high-HP classes available. Maybe Necropolitan whateveryouwant Stalwart Sorcerer? Stalwart trades one spell per level for some hitting ability and +2 HP per level, which works nicely with d12 hit dice. You'd need tons of bluff, though, and I'm not sure what spells to pick.

[Joe the Rat]

A Knight doesn't have to be all shining armor and horses, just gallant and true (very Admiralty there, eh wot?), and have the ability to make everyone want to kill him (keeping your caster buddies from getting melee'd). Alternatives to heavy metal might be worth looking into.

Bullrush on a Boat --> Man Overboard. We were doing a naval assault just last night. Our wizard got bullrushed off the side, and spent half the battle practicing his "not-drowning skills." Now imagine if that was someone in heavy armor...

[Gwazi Magnum]

Also, are there any good tank advice people can give?
Because looking at my last guy who was a total beast in terms of health there has to be something about tanking I was missing.


Hmm. I'm at a loss for high-HP classes available. Maybe Necropolitan whateveryouwant Stalwart Sorcerer? Stalwart trades one spell per level for some hitting ability and +2 HP per level, which works nicely with d12 hit dice. You'd need tons of bluff, though, and I'm not sure what spells to pick.

So basically become someone who doesn't need air (I can swim!) and has d12 HD but no con modifier for health?

It's an interesting idea, but I'm worried since Gregor was a Barbarian d12 with an effective con of 22 while in rage and an additional HP per level from improved toughness.


A Knight doesn't have to be all shining armor and horses, just gallant and true (very Admiralty there, eh wot?), and have the ability to make everyone want to kill him (keeping your caster buddies from getting melee'd). Alternatives to heavy metal might be worth looking into.

Bullrush on a Boat --> Man Overboard. We were doing a naval assault just last night. Our wizard got bullrushed off the side, and spent half the battle practicing his "not-drowning skills." Now imagine if that was someone in heavy armor...

True, but does this mean my whole function would be pushing people off a boat?

There will be a fair amount of times we aren't on a boat, I want to be good at boat combat but not to the point I'm lost if not on a boat.

[ArcturusV]

Well, I'd say Barbarian because it fits the naval campaign almost perfectly. Very robust. You don't want to use heavy armor anyway for the obligatory "Someone is going overboard" moments, and it's ALWAYS the guy in heavy armor. Without fail. It happens. Having Climb and Balance as class skills really helps with rolling decks, green water, and navigating rigging. Sure, Barbarian lacks Balance, but hell, Climb helps a lot.

But barring barbarian? Ug. Well, if you're fighting demons or undead (And they have a habit of trying to drag people underwater), something with Turn Undead becomes a lot more useful, so Cleric or Paladin. Stormwrack has the rule that allows you to burn a Turn Undead use to turn all water within (I believe it's 60 feet) of you into Holy/Unholy aligned water that deals damage over several rounds to vulnerable enemies. Not a bad deal, particularly if you roll up something that you wouldn't mind taking a swim with.

Since heavy armor is basically a no go anyway, you might want to consider a ranger chassis for your "Tank". Go Two-Weapon style. Get an appropriate avian or aquatic animal companion. The lack of heavy armor isn't really anything that will put you behind. Skill selection has a lot of useful skills for naval life, climb, survival, use rope, etc. Still need cross class ranks in Balance. If you're running into particular enemy types a lot, favored enemy is always nice to have.

[Kazyan]

So basically become someone who doesn't need air (I can swim!) and has d12 HD but no con modifier for health?

It's an interesting idea, but I'm worried since Gregor was a Barbarian d12 with an effective con of 22 while in rage and an additional HP per level from improved toughness.

It's effectively a +2 Con modifier with Stalwart, but yeah.

Maybe you'd prefer to summon monsters to be our meatshields? No one cares if those die.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Well, I'd say Barbarian because it fits the naval campaign almost perfectly. Very robust. You don't want to use heavy armor anyway for the obligatory "Someone is going overboard" moments, and it's ALWAYS the guy in heavy armor. Without fail. It happens. Having Climb and Balance as class skills really helps with rolling decks, green water, and navigating rigging. Sure, Barbarian lacks Balance, but hell, Climb helps a lot.

But barring barbarian? Ug. Well, if you're fighting demons or undead (And they have a habit of trying to drag people underwater), something with Turn Undead becomes a lot more useful, so Cleric or Paladin. Stormwrack has the rule that allows you to burn a Turn Undead use to turn all water within (I believe it's 60 feet) of you into Holy/Unholy aligned water that deals damage over several rounds to vulnerable enemies. Not a bad deal, particularly if you roll up something that you wouldn't mind taking a swim with.

Since heavy armor is basically a no go anyway, you might want to consider a ranger chassis for your "Tank". Go Two-Weapon style. Get an appropriate avian or aquatic animal companion. The lack of heavy armor isn't really anything that will put you behind. Skill selection has a lot of useful skills for naval life, climb, survival, use rope, etc. Still need cross class ranks in Balance. If you're running into particular enemy types a lot, favored enemy is always nice to have.

Good point with the armor thing, I almost forgot about that.

Ranger might be my best option.
Would it be a good idea to go two-weapon fighting with him but use it with the two handed sword + gauntlets routine?

Also I should note, I found the campaign takes a lot of use from the Profession(Sailor) skill and that melee characters tend to benefit a lot from swim.


It's effectively a +2 Con modifier with Stalwart, but yeah.

Maybe you'd prefer to summon monsters to be our meatshields? No one cares if those die.

Summons might work. But do we even have any summoners?

Also, you've been in the campaign longer than me, if I end up going ranger are there any favoured enemies you'd suggest?

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, Rangers having a generous heap of skill points should be helpful then. Yeah, a spear of some sort and gauntlets or armor spikes would probably be the way to go. I say a spear of some sort as, if you do end up in the drink remember that Piercing weapons like spears do full damage, other weapons get nerfed when attacking underwater.

Similarly other than a special bow, bows don't work, thrown weapons are terrible. I'd take up a crossbow as the emergency ranged weapon as it still works underwater and is fair enough for a target of opportunity type ranged attack when you're not in the water.

[Gwazi Magnum]

@Kazyan: Do you know if the book 'Stormwrack' is allowed?


Yeah, Rangers having a generous heap of skill points should be helpful then. Yeah, a spear of some sort and gauntlets or armor spikes would probably be the way to go. I say a spear of some sort as, if you do end up in the drink remember that Piercing weapons like spears do full damage, other weapons get nerfed when attacking underwater.

Similarly other than a special bow, bows don't work, thrown weapons are terrible. I'd take up a crossbow as the emergency ranged weapon as it still works underwater and is fair enough for a target of opportunity type ranged attack when you're not in the water.

Fair enough, can I make much use of the spear if still on the boat though?
Also I'm thinking I'll be ranger since it seems to also have a good amount of variants I can use for this.

[ArcturusV]

Well, the usual reason to use spears is less useful on a boat. Depending on how your DM lays it out, the reach might not really be effective. Similarly the bonus for setting against a charge isn't all that useful when you're on a boat thus charging is almost impossible to do. Though you could do that in the water against waterborne enemies. But a ship deck should always count as "difficult" terrain between clutter, rolling, water, etc.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Well, the usual reason to use spears is less useful on a boat. Depending on how your DM lays it out, the reach might not really be effective. Similarly the bonus for setting against a charge isn't all that useful when you're on a boat thus charging is almost impossible to do. Though you could do that in the water against waterborne enemies. But a ship deck should always count as "difficult" terrain between clutter, rolling, water, etc.

So would it be better to just use a different weapon on the boat then?

+ Does the spear work with two handed/two weapon fighting with the gauntlets when underwater?

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan: Do you know if the book 'Stormwrack' is allowed?



Fair enough, can I make much use of the spear if still on the boat though?
Also I'm thinking I'll be ranger since it seems to also have a good amount of variants I can use for this.

I'm not sure, but it almost certainly is, since we're doing a Stormwrack-themed campaign.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I'm not sure, but it almost certainly is, since we're doing a Stormwrack-themed campaign.

Sweet, I can track the lobster if it shows up! :P

[ArcturusV]

Well, it'd work. Just your gauntlets, as Bludgeoning weapons would be dealing... practically no damage? 1d3 + 1/2 str bonus? Rangers are just MAD enough that your 1/2 str is going to be a 1. Meaning you're maxing out on 2 damage with your gauntlet strikes under water. So not really worth considering or taking the penalties to hit on the attack routine. If you really wanted the two weapons for something like favored enemy strikes under water I'd go with something like a shortspear and a dagger to avoid the damage type penalties.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Well, it'd work. Just your gauntlets, as Bludgeoning weapons would be dealing... practically no damage? 1d3 + 1/2 str bonus? Rangers are just MAD enough that your 1/2 str is going to be a 1. Meaning you're maxing out on 2 damage with your gauntlet strikes under water. So not really worth considering or taking the penalties to hit on the attack routine. If you really wanted the two weapons for something like favored enemy strikes under water I'd go with something like a shortspear and a dagger to avoid the damage type penalties.

True, though I'm going non-spell casting so my abilities at level 6 are looking like this: STR 17, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 8

[Kazyan]

If you're ditching spellcasting, use the spell-less ranger variant from CW or the Champion of the Wild variant from CChamp (ew).

[Immabozo]

Fighter using power attack/leap attack/a 2 hander, knockback, shocktrooper and send them flying off the sides of the boat! Good battlefield control, tanking and just plain fun! Power attack (plus leap attack and a 2 hander, decent strength and knockback is a great combo! Even if you roll bad, you should still have huge bullrush numbers! Then Combat Brute will get you bonuses for every square you push them back, as well as a circumstantial bonus to power attack, which also ups your knockback bullrushes!

Refluff the fighter for pirate themed, maybe call the class the "Scalywag". Name him Inyego and he is traveling the seas in search of the man who killed his father.

[ArcturusV]

... Eh. Not so certain about going for the Spellless Ranger variant. Even if you never really plan to cast a spell at the moment, the bonuses it gives are kinda pathetic. I'd rather keep the spell casting potential. At the very least so if I need it someone can Owl's Wisdom me and I can use scrolls/wands if needed. Or find a stat boosting item of Wisdom to cover the gap.

Ranger spell casting is just... it's a lot of good kitchen sink utility.