Best wards for a Mythal

[Nettlekid]

I never really paid too much attention to the Mythal Seed from Lost Empires of Faerun, because I thought it was just another Epic Spell Seed and with a starting DC of 25, it didn't seem worth it. But I've now just read it over, and I realize that the new mechanic of the large warded area of a Mythal is incredibly powerful! To be able to make any spell effect permanent through the area of the ward, prevent certain spells or whole schools from being cast, and choosing spells to make usable at will within the warded area? If you were to build an impregnable castle warded by a Mythal which smote any enemy who crossed its borders, allowed you to pick which spells you never had to fear, and let you use whatever spell you wanted in its range (I think that's the strongest power), you would be unbeatable. If a Lich's phylactery's fortress was guarded by a Mythal like this, I don't think any adventurer would be able to get by it.

So, for maximum effect per cost, what are the best effects that you think a Mythal should have? What eternal buffs or repeated debuffs are worth sticking in, what are the chief spells to be forbidden, and what are the most useful at-will spells to have at your fingertips? I was thinking that a permanent Time Stop on all allies of the castle would be an excellent defense, and a permanent Favor of the Martyr combined with at-will Greater Celerity gave limitless versatility. Mordenkainen's Disjunction is easy for a forbidden spell, but what others are worth it?

[Morcleon]

...one does not simply give Morcleon access to Mythals. :smallamused:

This is a mythal I made for a Lv 30 game. You may pick and choose whatever you wish. :smallcool:

Basic necessities are:
Death Ward
Favor of the Martyr
Sheltered Vitality
Moment of Prescience
Starmantle
Ray Deflection
True Seeing
Invulnerability to Elements
Personal Mind Blank
Indomitability

Arointed: EVERYTHING (but only for those you don't give clearance to :smallwink:)

Wish
Miracle
Reality Revision
True Resurrection
Time Stop, Persist
Metafaculty
Astral Projection

Prevalent Spells: 45+2,544700
Death Ward (SL 2, CL 7): 11200
Immunity to death effects, energy drain, negative energy effects.

Favor of the Martyr (SL 2, CL 7): 22800
Immunity to nonlethal damage, charm and compulsion effects, pain effects, dazed, exhaustion, fatigue, nauseated, sickened, staggered, stunned. Remains conscious at -1 to -9.

Sheltered Vitality (SL 2, CL 5): 3000
Immunity to ability damage/drain, fatigue, exhaustion.

Wraithstrike (SL 2, CL 3): 4800
All attacks target touch AC.

Moment of Prescience (SL 2, CL 25): 40000
+25 insight bonus on all attacks, saves, ability checks and skill checks.

Inertial Armor (SL 2, ML 82): 16400
+44 armor bonus to AC, effective against incorporeal touch attacks.

Mental Barrier (SL 2, ML 82): 196800
+22 deflection bonus to AC.

Resistance, Psionic (SL 2, ML 82): 32800
+42 resistance bonus to all saves.

Metaphysical Weapon (SL 2, ML 82): 32800
All manufactured weapons gain +20 enhancement bonus.

Greater Concealing Amorpha (SL 2, ML 5): 12000
Total concealment (50% miss chance)

Starmantle (SL 2, CL 11): 26400
Immunity to nonmagical weapons, Reflex DC 15 for half damage from magic weapons.

Ray Deflection (SL 2, CL 7): 11200
Immunity to all ray spells and similar effects.

Biofeedback (SL 2, ML 82): 32800
DR 28/-

True Seeing, Enlarge (SL 2, CL 11): 26400
Sees through darkness, illusions, magically hidden objects, sees invisible and ethereal for 240 ft.

True Metabolism (SL 2, ML 15): 48000
Heal 10 HP per round, can forego healing to regenerate body part.

Vigor (SL 2, ML 82): 25600
Grants 410 temporary HP.

Stormrage, Intensify (SL 2, CL 26): 156000
Grants fly speed 120 ft (good manuverability), immunity to wind effects, thrown or projectile ranged weapons, fire up to 240 electricity damage per round.

Invulnerability to Elements (SL 2, CL 17): 45900
Grants immunity to fire, cold, electricity, acid and sonic damage, including damage to equipment.

Foresight (SL 2, CL 17): 45900
Never surprised or flat-footed, +2 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves, gives general idea of impending danger.

Dimensional Obstruction (SL 1, ML 9): 13500
Prevents extradimensional travel into, out of, or within nexus.

Touchsight, Burrowing Enlarge Transdimensional (SL 2, ML 82): 98400
Feel surroundings telekinetically in 840 ft radius (including Ethereal and Shadow Planes), make Psicraft check to see past barriers with DC equal to 10+hardness of barrier+1 per foot of thickness.

Freedom of Movement (SL 2, ML 7): 8400
Move and attack normally, immune to grappling.

Damp Power (SL 2, ML 3): 4800
Minimize all damage done by spells, powers, spell- or psi-like abilities.

Reddopsi (SL 2, ML 13): 27300
Reverses all targeted powers to affect original manifester (excluding area and touch powers).

Spell Turning, Twin Intensify (SL 2, CL 29): 156600
Turns 40 targeted spell levels per round back on original caster(s).

Effulgent Epuration (SL 2, CL 30): 216000
Creates 30 spheres that absorb a targeted spell or spell-like ability each.

Spell Resistance (SL 2, CL 82): 164000
Grants SR 94.

Power Resistance (SL 2, ML 82): 164000
Grants PR 94.

Adapt Body (SL 2, ML 9): 9000
Automatically adapt to hostile environments, survive in any environment, half damage from environment.

Personal Mind Blank (SL 2, ML 13): 18200
Protects against all mind-affecting effects, information gathering via divination, scrying, all effects that detect, influence, or read emotions/thoughts.

Second Chance (SL 2, ML 9): 36000
Reroll one attack roll, saving throw, ability check or skill check 1/round.

Detect Hostile Intent, Widen (SL 2, ML 7): 4200


Metaphysical Claw (SL 2, ML 82): 32800


Force Screen (SL 2, ML 82): 24600


Affinity Field, Pain (SL 2, ML 17): 122400


Intellect Fortress (SL 2, ML 7): 22400


Analyze Dweomer (SL 2, CL 11): 52800


Arcane Sight, Greater (SL 2, CL 13): 36400


Indomitability (SL 2, CL 9): 36000


Ironguard (SL 2, CL 13): 72800


Shield of the Archons (SL 2, CL 13): 72800


Divine Power (SL 2, CL 7): 22400


Mastery of the Sky (SL 2, CL 15): 48000


Choose Destiny (SL 2, CL 17): 122400


Sublime Revelry (SL 2, CL 17): 61200


Divert Teleport (SL 2, ML 13): 27300


Arointed Spells: 16+584400
Abjuration (SL 1): 40000
Conjuration (SL 1): 40000
Divination (SL 1): 40000
Enchantment (SL 1): 40000
Evocation (SL 1): 40000
Illusion (SL 1): 40000
Necromancy (SL 1): 40000
Transmutation (SL 1): 40000
Clairsentience (SL 1): 40000
Metacreativity (SL 1): 40000
Psychokinesis (SL 1): 40000
Psychometabolism (SL 1): 40000
Psychoportation (SL 1): 40000
Telepathy (SL 1): 40000
Wish (SL 1): 15300
Limited Wish (SL 1): 9100

Vanguard Spells: 18+1,482400
Wish (SL 3, CL 82): 147600
Duplicate any Sorc/Wiz spell of 8th level or lower, duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, undo harmful effects, create nonmagical item up to 25000 gp in value, grant inherent boni, transport travelers, undo misfortune.

Miracle (SL 3, CL 64): 147600
Duplicate any cleric spell of 8th level or lower, duplicate any other spell of 7th level or lower, create an actual “miracle”.

Reality Revision (SL 3, ML 64): 147600
Duplicate any psionic power of 8th level or lower, duplicate any other power of 6th level or lower, undo harmful effects, create nonmagical item up to 25000 gp in value, grant inherent boni, transport travelers, undo misfortune.

Temporal Acceleration, Persistent (SL 3, ML 19): 22800
Stop time for 24 hours.

Metafaculty (SL 3, ML 82): 147600
Learn of an entity’s name, race, alignment, character class, general estimate of HD, location, significant items currently in possession, significant activities in the past 8 hours, current mental view (for 82 minutes).

Tornado Blast, Transdimensional Enlarge Widen Twin Intensify: (SL 3, ML 82): 147600
Creates a vortex of air within 7380 ft, dealing 96 damage (ranged touch attack, optional), and creating an 80 ft radius vortex dealing 576 damage (Reflex DC 73 half) and moving creatures 4d4x10 ft away from its original space, in a random direction.

Psychic Chirurgery (SL 2, ML 20): 18000
Heals all afflictions caused by psychic powers, all negative levels.

Stygian Conflagration, Transdimensional Twin Enlarge Widen Intensify (SL 3, ML 82): 147600
Creates an 80 ft tall pillar of black flame 30 ft in radius within 1840 ft, dealing 150 negative levels.

Greater Metamorphosis (SL 3, ML 25): 45000
Assume form of any nonunique creature (up to 25 HD), gaining any and all (Ex) or (Su) abilities. Can change form 1/round as a free action.

Astral Projection (SL 3, CL 17): 30600
Project astral body onto Astral Plane, form physical body on any other plane.

True Resurrection (SL 3, CL 17): 30600
Returns a creature (excluding undead and contructs) from the dead without level loss at full health and vitality

Time Regression (SL 3, CL 17): 30600
Travel back in time 1 round.

Mindrape (SL 3, CL 17): 30600
Learn everything target knows, can modify memory, emotions, and/or alignment.

Dweomerdoom (SL 3, CL 82): 147600
Counterspells a spell that has not yet been cast, by removing it as if cast, with a successful dispel check.

Timeless Body (SL 3, CL 17): 30600
Immunity to all effects for 1 round.

Genesis (SL 3, ML 17): 30600
Create a demiplane of radius 180 ft from the Astral Plane, grows at a rate of 1 ft/week.

Chain Contingency (SL 3, ML 18): 32400
Create up to three separate contingencies at once.

Prevalent Powers: 1+20000
Correspond (notifying caster of any entrance or exit of entities or attacks): 20000

Other Factors:
+100 to dispel DC: +200
Area increase (+900%, 1000 ft radius): +36

Security Level 1: These are deactivated for those with this clearance.
SL 2: These are activated for those with this clearance.
SL 3: These are activated for those with this clearance.

[Nettlekid]

@_@

I love how on these forums, there's one person who's an expert on a certain topic. Psyren is the resident Psionics expert. Urpriest does Monsters and Monstrous PCs. You seem to have Mythals covered.

That's an excellent list of defensive buffs. And I realize, looking at the mechanics of the permanent buffs (not actually permanent, but indefinitely recast) that spells like Moment of Prescience or Surge of Fortune would be idea, to use their "once per casting of the spell" effects whenever.

I was wondering, for either the at-will spells or the Prevalent Powers, how do costs come into play? I was thinking that for my Mythal I liked the look of having a Constricting Chains spell affect any non-ally who first steps in the boundary of the Mythal. Since that spell costs 1d2 Str drain, would I take that every time it activates, would I take 100d2 Str drain when casting the Mythal, or what?

Also, how in the world would you suggest mitigating the huge costs of that Mythal?

[Seffbasilisk]

Leadership. Ruler. All of those chains. Have each one be a mage, burn every spell slot they have for a year.

[Morcleon]

I was wondering, for either the at-will spells or the Prevalent Powers, how do costs come into play? I was thinking that for my Mythal I liked the look of having a Constricting Chains spell affect any non-ally who first steps in the boundary of the Mythal. Since that spell costs 1d2 Str drain, would I take that every time it activates, would I take 100d2 Str drain when casting the Mythal, or what?

Prevalent spells have a "cost" of (spell level) * (caster level) * 100, with a multiplier depending on the duration of 0.5 (24 hr), x1.5 (10 min), x2 (minutes) or x4 (rounds).

Vanguard spells have the same "cost", but without the multiplier.

Each 1000 gp in cost gives a +1 to the Spellcraft DC.

You would not be hurt by the spell at all. The spells placed in the mythal don't affect you unless you want them to.


Also, how in the world would you suggest mitigating the huge costs of that Mythal?

Several thousand 1st level casters. Pay them 10 gp each for the cost of a 1st level spell. Then recoup your costs by using Wish for 25kgp per standard action. :smallbiggrin:

Or you could take Leadership.

[Spuddles]

You can also mitigate with bound/gated/allied outsiders and/or simulacra of casters/monsters with casting.

[Raineh Daze]

If you can work out how to do it, cut off the top of a mountain, invert it, and have a flying city. :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

Haha, my plan is to affix the Mythal to an airship, and have a super fortress.

I still don't get it, for the spells like Wish or Forcecage at-will, when do you sacrifice XP or GP in the creation of the Mythal? I'm not willing to believe that it never comes up.

Edit: And wow, all those little +1s sure add up! If you take Epic Leadership, assuming a starting Charisma of 18 (ending up with 34) and no extra boosts to your leadership score, then at level 21 (the earliest you could do a Mythal), with a Leadership score of 33, you end up being able to mitigate 677 points of the Spellcraft DC with just the contributed 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell slots alone! And that's not even assuming you have Extra Followers, which would double that! (Now imagine if, at level 27, you picked up Legendary Commander and could mitigate thousands of points of DC....)

[Morcleon]

Haha, my plan is to affix the Mythal to an airship, and have a super fortress.

I still don't get it, for the spells like Wish or Forcecage at-will, when do you sacrifice XP or GP in the creation of the Mythal? I'm not willing to believe that it never comes up.

Each spell must be cast into the Mythal. So you should just buy a scroll or something of Wish and use that. Yes, you have to do this for every spell.

[Nettlekid]

Hmm, I see. Is there a time limit for the spells to be cast in? For example, if I'm taking 100 days to cast the Mythal, can I cast in a single spell each day? If I have access to Miracle, it would make the casting process a lot easier.

[Morcleon]

Hmm, I see. Is there a time limit for the spells to be cast in? For example, if I'm taking 100 days to cast the Mythal, can I cast in a single spell each day? If I have access to Miracle, it would make the casting process a lot easier.

*shrug* Not that I know of... Could just have them all cast in at once.:smallsmile:

[Nettlekid]

Oh, what I meant was that if I had Miracle that I could cast even once a day, it would make it much easier to cast in all the many spells over a long period, since Miracle can become most spells.

This isn't related at all, but what would be an awesome weapon for the ruler of the flying ship that this Mythal is warding to wield? Naturally, he wouldn't have too much use for it on or off the ship (the at-will spells make battling easy on the ship, and he's primarily a spellcaster off-ship) but as the captain of a massively renowned ship (prestigious enough to draw hundreds of followers with Leadership) he needs a good weapon to show off. What enchantments would suit it? The base has gotta be a cutlass, certainly.

[Morcleon]

Oh, what I meant was that if I had Miracle that I could cast even once a day, it would make it much easier to cast in all the many spells over a long period, since Miracle can become most spells.

This isn't related at all, but what would be an awesome weapon for the ruler of the flying ship that this Mythal is warding to wield? Naturally, he wouldn't have too much use for it on or off the ship (the at-will spells make battling easy on the ship, and he's primarily a spellcaster off-ship) but as the captain of a massively renowned ship (prestigious enough to draw hundreds of followers with Leadership) he needs a good weapon to show off. What enchantments would suit it? The base has gotta be a cutlass, certainly.

Oh. I'd just have a bunch of other people cast the spells in the Mythal, then pay them with Wish-made gold/items. :smalltongue:

A +1 Warning Initiative/+1 Defending Eager Crystal Quarterstaff. Costs 36600 gp, gives +9 to initiative, and (if you put in Metaphysical Weapon as I did) +20 untyped to AC. :smallbiggrin:

[Nettlekid]

I don't want to be TOO cheesy with the Mythal (well, cheesy is certainly relative, since already everyone warded is basically immune to everything), so I don't plan to have at-will Wish included and as such, infinite free gold. But I am able to cast Miracle anyway, so that takes care of all spells level 7 and lower, level 8 for Cleric spells, which leaves me with only a few scrolls to buy. Certainly worth it. I'm also a little unsure about adding Psionic powers into the Mythal, so I'm leaving those out.

Hm, that's quite good, but it doesn't strike me as very "captainy". I found the Masterslaying enhancement from Book of Vile Darkness, which is really cool. It bonds the weapon to a scabbard, and when you're holding the scabbard and someone else has the weapon, you can command the weapon to strike its wielder. They're flatfooted, and if you hit then it's an auto-crit, which opens up potential for a lot of those interesting "If you crit then-" weapon abilities. And I love the flavor of it. Someone tries to invade, and grabs your weapon. "That is my sword." It slashes them up, and they're dropped to their knees. The Crystal of Return brings it to your hand. "And this is my ship."
What makes a good combo with an auto-crit? Coup de Grace is good, with a pretty high DC, but expensive. I think I want to combine it with Fleshgriding, so I stab them, they pull it out, and it attacks. Although that might be a little too evil-looking. What other good acts-on-a-crit enhancements are there?

[Morcleon]

I don't want to be TOO cheesy with the Mythal (well, cheesy is certainly relative, since already everyone warded is basically immune to everything), so I don't plan to have at-will Wish included and as such, infinite free gold. But I am able to cast Miracle anyway, so that takes care of all spells level 7 and lower, level 8 for Cleric spells, which leaves me with only a few scrolls to buy. Certainly worth it. I'm also a little unsure about adding Psionic powers into the Mythal, so I'm leaving those out.

...you have a Mythal. At-will Wish is the least of your concerns.

As for psionics, psi-magic transparency should cover it. Also, spells tend to have caps that don't scale well into epic levels. Psionics lets you get +20 weapons and +44 armor bonus to AC. :smallbiggrin:


Hm, that's quite good, but it doesn't strike me as very "captainy". I found the Masterslaying enhancement from Book of Vile Darkness, which is really cool. It bonds the weapon to a scabbard, and when you're holding the scabbard and someone else has the weapon, you can command the weapon to strike its wielder. They're flatfooted, and if you hit then it's an auto-crit, which opens up potential for a lot of those interesting "If you crit then-" weapon abilities. And I love the flavor of it. Someone tries to invade, and grabs your weapon. "That is my sword." It slashes them up, and they're dropped to their knees. The Crystal of Return brings it to your hand. "And this is my ship."
What makes a good combo with an auto-crit? Coup de Grace is good, with a pretty high DC, but expensive. I think I want to combine it with Fleshgriding, so I stab them, they pull it out, and it attacks. Although that might be a little too evil-looking. What other good acts-on-a-crit enhancements are there?

You're a spellcaster, not a captain. :smalltongue:

Hm... I sorta like Prismatic. When you critical someone, it triggers a prismatic spray effect on them only.

[Douglas]

...you have a Mythal. At-will Wish is the least of your concerns.
Indeed. The Mythal seed is a strong contender for second* most broken aspect of epic spellcasting, and considering all the other things epic spells can do that is seriously impressive.

* First place goes to the mitigation factors.

[Morcleon]

Indeed. The Mythal seed is a strong contender for second* most broken aspect of epic spellcasting, and considering all the other things epic spells can do that is seriously impressive.

* First place goes to the mitigation factors.

I'd put it at third, actually. The Shadow seed is second. It basically lets you make a replica of a creature with as high a CR as you have mitigation for. This includes giving it class levels. Also, it's utterly loyal to you. :smallwink:

[Chambers]

Also, how in the world would you suggest mitigating the huge costs of that Mythal?

The Mythal in Myth Drannor had the mitigating factor: death of primary spellcaster. So that's one way to do it. :smallwink:

[Morcleon]

The Mythal in Myth Drannor had the mitigating factor: death of primary spellcaster. So that's one way to do it. :smallwink:

Yeah, but that's kinda silly if you intend on using our own Mythal. Besides, 1) that death is permanent. No resurrection at all, and 2) only gives something like -50. Which is really small, when you look at the fact that most of my mythals have pre-mitigation costs in the thousands. :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

And I've realized that with Leadership, it's easy to get at least 1000 point mitigated just with your little helpers adding in 1st through 4th level spells during the casting.