[PF] Seeking Sorcerer (Face/Enchanter) advice

[Vastly]

EDIT: Added build to main post. Suggestions and advice are still welcome!
So I received a boon to play a Kitsune in PFS, and considering I tend to play face characters and casters, I figure it a good opportunity to play an enchanter.

While trying to figure out what to make my kitsune, I looked up real world fox based myths, and found the Nguruvilu, which means Fox Snake. Its a mythical creature from south Chile that lived in rivers and would lure people into the river with calm waters, it would then drown them and have a tasty meal. I'm going to focus on the snake and lure/trickery portion of the myth.

The portion of the build I have figured out is as follows:

Bloodline: Serpentine
Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), Varisian Tattoo (Enchantment)
Priority Skills: Diplomacy, Bluff, Perception, and/or Sense Motive
Favored Class Bonus: +1/4 enchantment spell DC (too good to not pick)


Things I'm uncertain of or am considering:

Archetypes: I was thinking Tattooed Sorcerer and/or Crossblooded (Infernal, Fey, Groveborn, Maestro), not sure either is worth it
Feats: Eldritch Heritage (Aquatic) line of feats, (this would tie in with the fact that the Nguruvilu lived in water, without it being the focus of the character, and telepathy at lvl 11 would be a fantastic ability for an enchanter.) Other then that Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, and Metamagic feats (unsure of which ones).
Traits: No clue
Stats: Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 18. Would it be worth it in this case to go with a base 20 Charisma?
Skills: I generally like having UMB, Spellcraft and at least 1 knowledge skill, but I just don't see me having enough skill points.


I'm also unsure of what items to pursue, and which spells to pick beyond those of the enchantment school. Part of me almost wants to just go full enchantment and use wands/scrolls to full fill my needs in other schools.

Any thoughts are welcome, thanks!

EDIT: Added build to main post. Suggestions and advice are still welcome!
This is base stats, straight class features and abilities with no items calculated in.

Stats
Str 8
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 22

Fort: +4, Ref: +4, Will: +8

BAB: +5

Race
Kitsune
+2 Dex and Cha, -2 Str
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Change Shape (Su): A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.
Agile (Ex): +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/day—dancing lights.
Natural Weapons (Ex): In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Tian, Tengu

Traits
Suspicious: +1 Sense Motive, is a class skill
Mind over Matter (Lantern Lodge): +1 Will Saves

Skills
Bluff 11 (+23)
Diplomacy 11 (+20)
Sense Motive 11 (+19)
Spellcraft 11 (+16)

Feats
1. Spell Focus (Enchantment): +1 DC enchantment spells
3. Realistic Likeness: +10 Disguise checks to look like a specific person
5. Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment): +1 DC enchantment spells
7. Fox Shape: Turn into a fox at will
9. Still Spell: +1 spell level, spell no longer require somatic components
11. Spell Penetration: +2 caster level to overcome SR

Abilities
[11] Sorcerer (Serpentine)
1. Bloodline Arcana: Your powers of compulsion can affect even bestial creatures. Whenever you cast a mind-affecting or language-dependent spell, it affects animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids as if they were humanoids who understood your language.
Eschew Materials: Spells cast no longer require non-costly spell components.
Serpent’s Fang (Ex): Gain bite attack with poison.
3. Serpent Friend (Ex): Gain ability to speak with reptiles at will and a viper familiar with abilities at sorcerer lvl -2.
7. Bloodline Feat: Silent Spell: +1 spell level, spell cast no longer has verbal component
9. Snakeskin (Ex): Gain +1 natural armor, +2 on saves against poison, and +2 on Escape Artist checks.

Spells (DC of lvl 0 spells = 21)
1. Known: 5
Hypnotism (Bloodline)
Sleep (change out at 4th lvl for a spell below)
Magic Missile
Charm Person
Silent Image
Obscuring Mist
Grease

2. Known: 5
Delay Poison (Bloodline)
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Hideous Laughter
Alter Self
Invisibility

3. Known: 4
Summon Monster III (Bloodline - reptiles only)
Suggestion
Haste
Hold Person
Heroism

4. Known: 3
Poison (Bloodline)
Overwhelming Grief
Black Tentacles
Dimension Door

5. Known: 2
Hold Monster (Bloodline)
Dominate Person
Wall of Force

[Slipperychicken]

As a Sorcerer, you need to take some spells which are universally applicable (i.e. so you aren't totally boned when someone's immune to your Enchantment spells). Usually these are Grease, Glitterdust, Web, etc. Check out a PF Sorcerer guide, they list these in more detail.

Make sure the campaign isn't all about enchantment-immune enemies like undead and constructs. I've heard horror stories about this.

Hideous Laughter with all those DC boosters will annihilate low level bruiser bosses (after that, just watch your BSFs wipe his hp away). I hope your DM is prepared for that. Your DCs are through the roof already (your first level spells will be like DC 20), so you can expect most enemies to fail until your DM gets sick of it.

You're trying to hit people with save-or-lose, so going 20 Charisma is perfect unless you have to dump Con below 12 (also, good call on making it 14, much more survivable).

If you need more skillpoints, have you considered playing a Bard? Also, Knowledge isn't really your job, and UMD isn't necessary as long as you have a friendly arcane (you) and divine caster (someone else). Get your resident smarty-pants caster to put ranks in Knowledge. Spellcraft, however, is absolutely necessary on fullcasters like you. With those skillpoints, I would the 4 face skills and Spellcraft.

What level are you starting at?

Crossblooded looks awesome until you realize just how crippling the spells known thing is. Then it's just awful, so don't take it unless you want to suck.

[Vastly]

As a Sorcerer, you need to take some spells which are universally applicable (i.e. so you aren't totally boned when someone's immune to your Enchantment spells). Usually these are Grease, Glitterdust, Web, etc.

I figure as much, but my plan will be to still lean heavily on enchantments.


Make sure the campaign isn't all about enchantment-immune enemies like undead and constructs.

It's Pathfinder Society, which means, these types of monsters do show up from time to time, but in every scenario there will generally be at least 1 encounter where my enchantments would be valid and useful.


You're trying to hit people with save-or-lose, so going 20 Charisma is perfect unless you have to dump Con below 12 (also, good call on making it 14, much more survivable).

The main issue ends up being a lack of skill points and survivability with 20 Charisma. Granted, 90% of survivability is about making smart tactical decisions and not being in harms way. But sometimes, you'll get caught off guard or just have to risk it. Most of my characters, I strive to have 14 Con. Most of the time, getting 20 in a base stat just isnt worth the sacrifice it takes from your other stats, this is about the only type of character I would even consider it.


If you need more skillpoints, have you considered playing a Bard?

Unfortunately there is already a Kitsune bard around, and I wanted to be a distinctly different from him.


What level are you starting at?

It's PFS, so level 1.


Crossblooded looks awesome until you realize just how crippling the spells known thing is. Then it's just awful, so don't take it unless you want to suck.

Yea the archetype has so much potential, but its penalty is incredibly harsh and a bit heavy handed in it's approach to balance in my opinion. It doesn't need a -2 Will and 1 less spell known of every spell level, there had to be a better way to balance it.

[Spuddles]

Undead would probably be the better bloodline, imo. Charm Monster and a faerie dragon (for telepathy) or tongues works on everything else. Other than Serpentine's Bloodline Arcana, it's rather underwhelming. Especially because a charmed wolf at level 1 will still attack your allies and you can't talk to it. I made a serpentine bloodline for a game, and that was a common problem.

Alternatively, just nab Command Undead as 2nd level spell. Auto control vs mindless undead. Skip undead bloodline.

Nab a couple traits to get you perception/diplomacy/sense motive/whatever as class skills. Doing so gets you a +4 bonus (trait & trained skill).

Create Pit WILL be on your spells known. It may be the best low level spell in PF (metamagic nonsense not withstanding).

[Vastly]

Especially because a charmed wolf at level 1 will still attack your allies and you can't talk to it. I made a serpentine bloodline for a game, and that was a common problem.

Spuddles, I think you kind of got screwed over in that game, the serpentine arcana specifically states that not only are animals, magical beasts and monstrous humanoids treated as humanoids for those spells, but they are treated as humanoids that understand your language. So not only can you charm that wolf, but you can tell it what to do and it will understand. You simply wouldn't be able to understand it, and would likely have to rely on handle animal and/or sense motive checks to figure it out.

Here it is:
Bloodline Arcana: Your powers of compulsion can affect even bestial creatures. Whenever you cast a mind-affecting or language-dependent spell, it affects animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids as if they were humanoids who understood your language.

And I agree on the pit spells, they are quite handy and powerful to boot!

[Soras Teva Gee]

If you are still thinking of Tattooed Sorc be aware there's a potential conflict in that it and Serpentine grant familiars at level 1 and level 3 respectively.

The specific wording for both I recall doesn't match up as to how this resolves, however you said PFS which I seem to recall from somewhere has a specific rule about having only one secondary be it familiar or whatever. You can be loosing out on some powers basically and should have that checked.

Also the Aquaman bloodline, love the flavor you thought of with it but its a bit of a waste since its first level power kind sucks and you won't get the others until level 11. And (if I again recall my verrrry hazy knowledge of PFS) you won't hit level 17, thus won't get the ability to make everyone regret not knowing how to swim. Because unless you know its going to be an aquatic campaign your chances to swim are minimal.

[Vastly]

If you are still thinking of Tattooed Sorc be aware there's a potential conflict in that it and Serpentine grant familiars at level 1 and level 3 respectively.

Yea, its part of why I'm considering not doing it. I only get 1 familiar for PFS, but at least I'd get to choose it and it'd be full level. Potentially the 2 stack as per the standard rules for familiar, which leaves me with a familiar equal to character level + character level -2. It's rather confusing.


Because unless you know its going to be an aquatic campaign your chances to swim are minimal.

Coincidentally I just played a PFS game last night with a different character, and a druid in our party fell in a river, failed his swim check and got swept into a croc. Which ate him, he really wished he could swim!

[Soras Teva Gee]

Coincidentally I just played a PFS game last night with a different character, and a druid in our party fell in a river, failed his swim check and got swept into a croc. Which ate him, he really wished he could swim!

Silly druid, turn into a fish!

But if you really want a swim speed I'd suggest a Gillman. Then you get it naturally along with +2 Con +2 Cha -2 Wise and the +1 spell known Sorc favored class benefit. This only applies assuming you can be a Riverfolk variant.

[Vastly]

Silly druid, turn into a fish!

He was only lvl 1, so no wildshape yet, poor guy.

So I have my proposed build, taken to level 11. Any advice on it is welcome. (I'm also adding it to the original post above.)
This is base stats, straight class features and abilities with no items calculated in.

Stats
Str 8
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 22

Fort: +4, Ref: +4, Will: +8

BAB: +5

Race
Kitsune
+2 Dex and Cha, -2 Str
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Change Shape (Su): A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.
Agile (Ex): +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/day—dancing lights.
Natural Weapons (Ex): In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Tian, Tengu

Traits
Suspicious: +1 Sense Motive, is a class skill
Mind over Matter (Lantern Lodge): +1 Will Saves

Skills
Bluff 11 (+23)
Diplomacy 11 (+20)
Sense Motive 11 (+19)
Spellcraft 11 (+16)

Feats
1. Spell Focus (Enchantment): +1 DC enchantment spells
3. Realistic Likeness: +10 Disguise checks to look like a specific person
5. Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment): +1 DC enchantment spells
7. Fox Shape: Turn into a fox at will
9. Still Spell: +1 spell level, spell no longer require somatic components
11. Spell Penetration: +2 caster level to overcome SR

Abilities
[11] Sorcerer (Serpentine)
1. Bloodline Arcana: Your powers of compulsion can affect even bestial creatures. Whenever you cast a mind-affecting or language-dependent spell, it affects animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids as if they were humanoids who understood your language.
Eschew Materials: Spells cast no longer require non-costly spell components.
Serpent’s Fang (Ex): Gain bite attack with poison.
3. Serpent Friend (Ex): Gain ability to speak with reptiles at will and a viper familiar with abilities at sorcerer lvl -2.
7. Bloodline Feat: Silent Spell: +1 spell level, spell cast no longer has verbal component
9. Snakeskin (Ex): Gain +1 natural armor, +2 on saves against poison, and +2 on Escape Artist checks.

Spells (DC of lvl 0 spells = 21)
1. Known: 5
Hypnotism (Bloodline)
Sleep (change out at 4th lvl for a spell below)
Magic Missile
Charm Person
Silent Image
Obscuring Mist
Grease

2. Known: 5
Delay Poison (Bloodline)
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Hideous Laughter
Alter Self
Invisibility

3. Known: 4
Summon Monster III (Bloodline - reptiles only)
Suggestion
Haste
Hold Person
Heroism

4. Known: 3
Poison (Bloodline)
Overwhelming Grief
Black Tentacles
Dimension Door

5. Known: 2
Hold Monster (Bloodline)
Dominate Person
Wall of Force

[Soras Teva Gee]

Looks alright.

Personal preference I wouldn't worry about Sense Motive and either swap that 14 elsewhere or use the points to single dip a few other skills. A point into UMD for you would get you to the wand DC with reasonable reliability for example. Being able to use the ubiquitous cure light wounds wand is always useful.

Also I would swap out Hold Person for something once you have Hold Monster, redundancy is not something a Sorc should really do.

And I prefer Wall of Stone to Force.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I thought I might throw out another idea for you. Remember that with PFS you have the option of completely rebuilding between level 1 and level 2.

When you hit level 2 you might want to consider is only going for one level of Sorcerer with the Crossblooded archetype, allowing you to pick two bloodlines. With Serpentine and Undead you could target quite a few creatures with your Enchantment spells and won't have to worry quite as much about being negated by an encounter.

From level 2 and onward go Wizard. Your first level Sorcerer spells get replaced with pure utility spells and if you specialize in the Enchantment School you get bonuses to your face skills. You also get a lot more flexibility with spell preparation.