Suggestions for a new class?:) the Mystical Painter

[CinuzIta]

Hello everyone!

I'd like to have suggestions for a class that I'd like to create: I wanted to create a class that uses some sort of magic/divine Ink to draw animals, magical beasts and other monsters in order to conjure them. He could also use his brush to repair things or for other purposes. A la Sai (from Naruto) and Amaterasu (from Okami) style.

I'd like it to be a tier 2 or 3 class, so I guess it should be a useful class able to adapt from situation to situation.

Basically the class could draw nearly everything, but I don't know just what subsystem would be the best one (Invocations maybe? Some sort of Ink Strike in place of the Eldritch one of the Warlock with the possibility to use it to conjure said beasts and other things).

I was thinking, for the class' skeleton, medium bab, d8 HD, good reflex and will saves.

---

Mystical Painter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Painting Power Level

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Ink Arts, Ink Enchantment, Seal Paintings|1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Skill Focus (Craft (Painting))|1

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Evasion|2

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|The Pen is Mightier than the Sword|2

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Fast Draw|3

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Ink Stab|3

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Ink Blood|4

8th|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+6|Craft Marvelous Pigments|4

9th|
+6|
+3|
+6|
+6|Improved Evasion|5

10th|
+7|
+3|
+7|
+7|Improved Fast Draw|5

11th|
+8|
+3|
+7|
+7|Fabricate 1/Day|6

12th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Ink Serpent|6

13th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Superior Sketch 1/Day|7

14th|
+10|
+4|
+9|
+9|Fabricate 2/Day, Firm Hand|7

15th|
+11|
+5|
+9|
+9|Superior Fast Draw|8

16th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Superior Sketch 2/Day|8

17th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Fabricate 3/Day|8

18th|
+13|
+6|
+11|
+11|Improved Ink Stab|9

19th|
+14|
+6|
+11|
+11|Superior Sketch 3/Day|9

20th|
+15|
+6|
+12|
+12|Fabricate 4/Day|9[/table]
Hit Die: d8. Skill Points Per Level: 2+ Int Mod [x4 at 1st level]. Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Forgery (Int), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Architecture and ingeneering) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Spot (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: All Simple weapons and Light armor. Only proficient with the buckler. A Mystical Painter can cast Mystical Painter spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Mystical Painter wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield that is not a buckler incurs a chance of arcane spell failure dictated by the increased difficulty in painting freely. A multiclass Mystical Painter still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Ink Arts: WIP The Mystical Painter has access to "spells" that span from 1st to 9th level. When he reaches a new level that grants him a new level of spells, he automatically knows all of them. The Mystical Painter casts his spell by painting them on a scroll and infusing it with his mystical power.

Creating a drawing requires 1 minute during wich the character is considered flat-footed. In order to create a new drawing, the character must succeed on a Craft (Painting) check with a DC equal to 15+Painting Power Level. When the Painting is finished, the mystical power that the character has infused into it immediatly unleash, provoking the desired effect.

For the purposes of spells' duration and other variable, the Mystical Painter's level is considered to be the caster level of the class. The DC to resist a Painting's effect, if any exist, is equal to 10+1/2 Mystical Painter's class level+Painting level.

Even though the power of the Mystical Painter is considered to be both arcane and divine and his Paintings resemble spells sometimes used both by wizard and clerics, the Mystical Painter is neither considered an arcane spellcaster nor a divine one for the purposes of selecting feats or entering prestige classes. (And this could lead me to create some metadrawing feats, dedicated feats or things like that)

WIP - any suggestion on this is welcome

Ink Enchantment (Ex): Every drawer has a personal drawing style, different from all the others. You make no exception but, differently from other drawers, your spells are closely related to your drawings. Your spells seems to be animated drawings. Because of the unusual appearance of your spells, the DC of any Spellcraft check made to identify a spell you have cast increases by +4. In addition, you may designate one spell you know per spell level as a thematic spell and cast it at +1 caster level.

Seal Paintings (Su): Starting at 1st level, the Mystical Painter can put a special sigil on his paintings in order to prevent them to unleash their mystical energy just after they're finished, so that he can bring them with him and use them when he needs it. He can have sealed a number of paintings equal to 1/2 his class level at one time (minimum 1).

I hope this makes any sense. Is a kind of spell preparation mixed with the Scribe Scroll feat. A character could prepare some paintings at the beginning of the day and then use them without the need to produce them at the moment.

Skill Focus (Craft (Painting)) (Ex): At 2nd level, the Mystical Painter gains Skill Focus (Craft (Painting)) as a bonus feat.

Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level and higher, the Mystical Painter can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the character is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Mystical Painterdoes not gain the benefit of evasion.

The Pen Is Mighter Than The Sword (Ex): At 4th level, the Mystical Painter treats improvised weapons normally used for painting or drawing as a dagger, taking no penalties for using an improvised weapon.

Fast Draw (Ex):At 5th level the Mystical Painter can draw faster, and he only requires 5 round to create a Painting.

Ink Stab (Sp): From the point of the Painter's brush, a line of magically animated ink erupt and strike his foes with a vicious stab.

Starting at 6th level, the Mystical Painter can attack his foes with his mystical energy, using his ink to deal damage and sometimes impart other debilitating effects.

An Ink Stab is a ray with a range of 20 feet that originates from the Ink in the Mystical Painter's brush charged with his mystical energy. It is a ranged touch attack that affects a single target, allowing no saving throw. An Ink Stab deals 3d4 points of damage at 6th level and gain an additional d4 of damage for every two level thereafter, to a maximum of 10 dices at 20th level. An Ink Stab is the equivalent of a spell whose level is equal to one-half the Mystical Painter’s class level (round down), with a minimum spell level of 1st and a maximum of 9th when a Mystical Painter reaches 18th level or higher.

An Ink Stab is subject to spell resistance, although the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance also apply to Ink Stab. An Ink Stab deals half damage to objects. Metamagic feats cannot improve a Mystical Painter's Ink Blast (because it is a spell-like ability, not a spell). However, the feat Ability Focus (Ink Blast) increases the DC for all saving throws (if any) associated with a Mystical Painter’s Ink Blast by 2.

Ink Blood (Su): Starting at 7th level, the Mystical Painter is so attuned to the toxicity of inks he himself uses that he becomes immune to all kind of poisons.

Craft Marvelous Pigments (Ex): Starting at 8th level, the Mystical Painter is considered to be in posses of the Craft Wondrous Items feat in order to create the Marvelous Pigments. He can only have one of this at a time and he cannot create more until he finishes the current Pigments. The Mystical Painter, in order to create the Pigments, have to succeed on a Craft (Painting) check with a DC equal to 40 -1/class level.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the Mystical Painter still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Mystical Painter does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Improved Fast Draw (Ex): Starting at 10th level, the Mystical Painter is able to create a new painting with a Full-Round action instead of 5 turns.

Fabricate (Sp): Starting at 11th level, the Mystical Painter is able to use Fabricate as a spell like ability once per day at a caster level equal to his class level. He can use this ability 2/day at 14th level, 3/day at 17th level and 4/day at 20th level.

Ink Serpent (Sp): From the 12th level, the Ink Stab is no more just a blurred inky line. The ink that originates from the brush transforms into an ink serpent that can bite the Mystical Painter's opponent.

The Ink Stab deals his normal damages, but in addition the Mystical Painter can now choose to apply one of these two effects when he uses his Ink Stab. The effect must be choosen before the attack roll is resolved:


Bite: whenever an enemy is struck by the Ink Stab, he must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10+1/2 Mystical Painter's class levels+Mystical Painter's Int modifier) or suffer 1d3 point of damage to his Strenght score.
Constrict: whenever the Ink Stab strike an enemy, this one has to succeed on an opposed Grapple check with the Ink Serpent or be considered to be in a grapple with this one. The Ink Serpent has a Grapple modifier equal to the Mystical Painter's class levels + the Mystical Painter's Int modifier.


Superior Sketch (Ex): The Mystical Painter can sometimes give demonstration on incredible power by using a certain amount of his Mystical Power to animate an unfinished sketch. From the 13th level on, he can draw a new painting with a swift action. Animating paintings in this way however requires a lot of power and the Mystical Painter can use this ability just 1/day at 13th level, 2/day at 16th level and 3/day at 19th level.

Firm Hand (Ex): From 14th level, the Mystical Painter is so used at painting in stressing situations that he can choose to take 10 on Craft (Painting) checks even when stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

Improved Ink Stab (Sp): From 18th level the range of Ink Stab raises to 40 feet and the damage dices are converted from d4 to d6.

maybe this one is a bit lame as an 18th level ability, isn't it?

[Soliloquy]

I would recommend having various levels of drawings, and having a certain number of drawings known, maybe with repairing as a separate ability based on class level.

[CinuzIta]

so basically you're supporting my invocations idea, right?

Repair as a special ability is a good idea, would making it an at will ability be unbalancing? Maybe even Fabricate could be a good special ability? As a prerequisite for using them, having paper and brush should be necessary in my opinion!

[Soliloquy]

well, i'd say just brush, as you can write on the ground. anyway, invocations yes, eldrich blast no

[CinuzIta]

okay, thank you! So basically a light/support melee class with an invocation style ability based on ink, drawings and things like that!

Has anyone suggestions on class features and invocations? Suggestions on invocations would be very much appreciated!

[Soliloquy]

I recommend making a table with some basic abilities first. That way it will be easier to fill in.

After that? Just things like "bird", "dog", or "helicopter".

[CinuzIta]

eh helicopter would be nice but I think that, at first at least, I'll just stick with summon animal and summon monsters for semplicity sake. Maybe I'll even create an "Ink Creature" template to be applied to the conjured creatures. Something minor like immunity to poison, disease, minor poisonous attacks and things like that!

At the moment I can't create a class table because I'm writing from my cellphone but tomorrow, if I get a new computer mouse (the current one is broken), I'll write one down!

For the moment, if anyone has ideas and suggestions please post them!

[Xaotiq1]

You could spend a feat on a Conjurer and get the Spell Thematics Feat.

OR Use the artificer as a base! Instead of getting the Craft X feats for free, they gain access to the Summon X line of spells?

[CinuzIta]

a conjurer wizard would not be okay since it lacks both the HD and the bab to stand in a fight when needed..

In the same way, neither an artificer would be okay because his imbuing system requires too much time to be viable in combat (he require 1 minute to imbue something or 1 action point, wich I don't know how they works, so I don't want to start playing with them)..also, the point about the class would not be just to conjure beasts, but to also being able to use the supernatural drawing ability of the class to change reality (even thoug in a limited way..at least at the beginning)! Thank you for the suggestions anyway:)

[Zweisteine]

i don't see how the drawing and arcane/divine link are related, but if you want to draw stuff into being, I suggest looking into Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments as a basis for the ability. Actually, it seems that if you want to draw stuff into being, you could just reflavor your creation and summoning spells to have components (and a focus) of "ink, pen, and paper, which are used to draw the summoned/created object."
It seems to me, though, that such an action would be more similar to an Artificer's infusing than spellcasting, because of the time involved. I'd think drawing like that would take at least a full-round action.

If you want to be a summoner, and capable of holding your own in melee, you could be a cleric, focusing on the conjurations you get. While not arcane, it would fill your needs pretty solidly.

Another possibility would be to modify the Warmage (Complete Arcane) to be conjuration-based. The Duskblade might work as well, but that class is more of a secondary caster.


Another point: by any logic, a spell being cast by drawing could not be cast in melee without both making you flat-footed and provoking an attack, and it could never be quickened, if it could take less than a full round in the first place.


My attempt to throw something together in five minutes:
•d8 HD, moderate BAB, good Reflex and Will, bad Fortitude
•gets light and medium armor proficiency, and light armored casting. Gets medium armored casting at level 10
•proficient with simple weapons
•Casting is based on intelligence (if you want divine ties, have bonuses spells come from int, and DCs from Wis)
•spell list would contain conjuration (creation, summoning) spells, some evocation, some illusion. no necromancy, transmutation (except some like fly, where you draw wings), or enchantment)
•Advanced learning (any new spell at 5/10/15/20th level)
•I'd add some abilities about drawing stuff, but I'm not sure what... perhaps the ability to cast a conjuration or creation spell in a full rouns to get some bonus
•gets free scribe scroll at level one
•skills: Concentration, craft, decipher script, knowledge (arcana, architecture+engineering, dungeoneering, nature), profession, spellcraft. Add all other knowledge skills if divine. 2+int skills/level

If you don't mind non-traditional class features, I'd use a moderate Fortitude saves and 3_int skills/level.

Sorry for the bad formatting/order.

[inuyasha]

Im sure I could come up with a good version that doesnt use invocations (aah I dont have that book :smallfrown:) and could still fight, want to PM me some more exact details and ideas you have?

[CinuzIta]

@zweisteine: the artist is able to create objects, summon creatures and change reality by infusing some sort of raw arcane power into his drawings..

Pigments could be a very nice base from wich develop his special ability!

The artist anyway doesn't have to draw a very detailed version of what he wants to create..he may draw just a stilized version of what he wants to create and let his power do the rest! This wouldn't take too much time..obviously drawing more complex things would require more details, so more even more time. With levels the artist may be able to quicken the way he draws via class abilities anyway.

Even a normal spellcaster provokes AoO when he casts spell..

Also please note this: I know that a Conjurer Wizard or a Cleric would do the job as well, but the point about this thread is to give suggestions to create a base class, not a PC build.

@inuyasha: I'm glad you want to help..please post any suggestion or class idea you have here. For the moment nothing is set in stone, so invocations are not sure. Maybe a normal spellcasting progression (with limited numbers, like the bard, but up to spell levels in order to have at least Summon Monsters IX) with the necessity to have a brush and ink (like a Cleric needs his holy symbol) would do the job better.

I've never played spellcasting classes so extensively to consider myself an expert in this area, so I'm waiting for suggestions and ideas!:)

[Zweisteine]

What I mean about AoOs is that you couldn't Draw defensively to avoid it. The process of drawing anything well enough to bring into reality would require enough focus, if it was to be done in a full round, would prevent you from defending yourself (especially because you'd probably be using your leg as a drawing surface...).
You'd also need to put down your weapon, as you'd need to draw with your primary hand...

[CinuzIta]

come on now, is just another way of casting a spell..the class can obviously cast defensively etc to avoid AoO..if you read the material components, and link them with the vocals, somatic and all of the other components needed by a wizard to cast a spell, you'll see that sometimes he has to do things that are much more weirder than drawing a stylized wolf just to conjure one..and any solid flat surface that can be hold with one hand can be used as a drawing surface (ever used a block notes? Much the same thing) :)

The weapon is a problem anyway, and that's why I wanted to use an Ink blast at first..so that the class was never really to be considered without a weapon as long as it has its brush in its hands..even a scaling d4s damage could do the job..like, the character draw a rapid sketch of a line on a scroll and that takes life in an eldritch blast made of ink..at later levels this could also deal poisonous damages..

[Trodon]

Well, it does have a summoning-like effect (Life Imitates Art (Ink-Heart) at level 6), but that may not be quite what you're looking for. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125864) is the class, I haven't been able to play it though.

[Waker]

Idea kinda reminds me of Madara's Scribblenaut.

[Xaotiq1]

Okay,

Hit Die: d8
Base Attack: As Rogue
Good Saves: Reflex and Will
Poor Saves: Fortitude

Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Forgery (Int), Knowledge All (taken individually) (Int), Spot (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points Per Level: 2+ Int Mod [x4 at 1st level] (I know, but most of your skills are Int based. You're GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH POINTS!)

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: All Simple weapons, Light armor, all shields.

There's a decent chassis to start from. You could honestly use the Incarnate chassis from Magic of Incarnum, yeah 1/2 BAB, but most of your stuff will either be fighting on its own, or you'll be making some kind of AoE or touch attack. Ergo, BAB really isn't an issue for you.

I used the Artificer as a base for abilities because they START slow. By level 7 or so, you're tearing down castles solo with the correct level of optimization. If you're not satisfied with that, give the class an ability that allows them to prepare a certain number of images per level, or make a rushed craft check (ala the Binder (ToM) and their rushed binding check).

Again, if you want the class to summon objects and creatures and be able to fight, yeah, you ARE better off with a wizard. Look at plolymorph/shapechange and tell me wizards can't mix it up in melee, pfft.

If you want something that trades a small iota of power for a ass-ton of flavor, maybe take a second look at not only my, but others' suggestions.

Peace and chicken grease!

[CinuzIta]

@Trodon and Waker: many thanks for pointing me out those classes, I found some inspiration and good ideas in there! Pen Stronger Than Sword for example is a nice way to have the class always armed, even when using the brush...considering the brush like a short sword is way too much in my opinion, but using the brush like a dagger would do!

@Xaotiq: thanks for the class chassis, but I'm not sure about the skill points. Is not said that Int will be one of his main abilities (maybe Wisdom would be better for a drawer? With all that "catching details" and "spirit of observation" thingies?). I can't recall how the Binder works anyway, so I'll have to take a look at it again!

[Soliloquy]

Well, I think that drawing is a craft check, so int would make sense.

[CinuzIta]

right, fair point! Didn't thought about that!:)

[Hanuman]

You should read the fluff and mechanics for this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15228375

Seems pretty close to what you're working on, if not then a sorcerer to your wizard if you catch my drift.

A wizardy version might be a mushishi-esque painter, and if you haven't seen Mushishi then you def. should go watch that now. It's anime so it's easy to google streaming.

[Soliloquy]

Hanuman, That's a really good idea, but he won't have tag tricks or anything, so sorcerer wizard might be a bit close. Warlock or bard maybe?

[Hanuman]

Hanuman, That's a really good idea, but he won't have tag tricks or anything, so sorcerer wizard might be a bit close. Warlock or bard maybe?

Well the fluff mainly revolves around psychoreactive paint via processed shapesand + fluzzy-logic alchemical + psi-field (even regular shapesand relies on an ambient psionic field for it's 100' range). Tag tricks are simply a way of utilizing the paint.

I was just saying that if you pump enough psychoreactive substance into something and put enough emotion in it that it can become anything and do anything, and with sit-down wizardy pondering you can get some really interesting effects (Tagger is meant to be near ADHD level attention span, it's not meant to be a long-term planner.).

Marvelous pigments are an interesting mechanic and are more to your liking.

Chaos flask is also along these lines (something I'll be introducing to the tagger with the dungeonjammer's Tools of the Trade fix to Tagger), but Chaos Flask perfectly fits what you want:
-Paint things into reality
-Form permanent creatures, objects or mendings.

[CinuzIta]

In these days I was thinking about a good magic subsystem for these class and I came up with this. Would it be balanced?

The class have access to "spells" that span from 1st to 9th level. When he reaches a new level that grants him a new level of spells (this levels are roughly the same of the class you pointed me, Anhuman), he automatically knows all of them (I don't see why an accomplished artist would be able to draw a dog but not, say, a wolf).

Creating a drawing requires 1 minute during wich the character is considered flat-footed. At 5th level the character can draw faster, and he only requires 5 round to create a drawing. At 10th level he can create one with a standard action. At 15th level the character drawing speed becomes insane and he can create one drawing as a swift action. Theorically, the character could have readied at one time an infinite number of drawings that he can bring with him; the only limit to the number of drawing he can carry with him, are those dictated by common logic (so he is unlikely to bring with him a million sketches without some magical support. I was considering inserting some kind of magical paper adapt at drawing this magic that comes in 20 scrolls a block costing 500gc, so that the character has to spend a little bit before creating his scrolls. At first level however he would get 20 scrolls for free).

The class then can use his innate arcane power and his bond with the ink used in his works to give life to his sketches. To do so, he must spend a standard action during wich he must have access to both the drawing and the brush that he used to create it as a focus that replaces all of the other material components usually needed to cast a spell. Infusing this energy to conjure a drawing effect provokes an attack of opportunity.

The character's arcane power, however, is not infinite. He can animate his paintings only a certain number of times per encounter (I was thinking the same number of spells/day that are available to the bard). If he exceed this number by animating another painting, he becomes fatigued for 1 hour. If he animates 2, he is exhausted for one hour. If he animates 3 paintings after the limit has been reached, he falls unconscious and must succeed on a Fortitude Saving throw (DC 15 + Painting level) or drop to -1 HP.

For the purposes of spells' duration and other variable, the drawer level is considered to be the caster level of the class. The dc to resist a drawing's effect, if any exist, is equal to 10+1/2 drawer level+drawing level.

Even though the power of the drawer is considered to be arcane and his drawings resemble some wizards' spells, the drawer is not considered an arcane spellcaster for the purposes of selecting feats or entering prestige classes. (And this could lead me to create some metadrawing feats, dedicated feats or things like that)

What do you think?

Edit: I think I'll give the class the special ability to create the marvelous pigments at some point between level 6 and 9. Earlier than this would give the class a chance to make too much money too early, later would prove useless in my humble opinion.

Anyway, I have a computer mouse again, so I hope I'll be writing a sketch (meh) of the class progression soon enough!

[Hanuman]

Balance is a complicated term, but I'll try.

Tagger will address painting creatures by using psionic ruleset, astral construct to be precise.

Astral construct allows you to cater to your exact needs without being specific, by having a class feature which allows for subtle visual changes such as appearing to need to be on 4 legs, to appear to be a dog, or a wolf, you basically have what you want.

A wolf for instance would function mechanically different by having the trip feature from menu A.

That's basically how I'm plannning it anyway.

If you're looking for a sit-down class I'd suggest having limitations, limitations means more freedom on how powerful you want it to be, the Tagger has a lot of limitations on it's actual power and it's ability to impact a solution directly most of the time, it trades this with being spontaneous and having huge utility.

I'd suggest having anything over a minute be based on Craft check, you may also want to peek at the gramarie ruleset if you want to go the full hour route http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252794

In terms of "draw anything" I'd suggest flavoring it partially like a factotum and partially like a blue mage, just copy and inspire, fill utility and creativity.

[CinuzIta]

Pardon me for my ignorance, but could you define "sit-down class"?

Astral constructs are interesting indeed but, being this class able to conjure both animals and monsters, I don't see them as a necessary add on, since it would be able to conjure whatever he needs in a specific moment anyway.

As a "limitation" would requiring a craft check (dc 15+spell level) in order to create any drawing be okay?

I don't know neither the factotum nor the blue mage, I shall take a look at them!

---

Edit:

My attempt to throw something together in five minutes:
•d8 HD, moderate BAB, good Reflex and Will, bad Fortitude
•gets light and medium armor proficiency, and light armored casting. Gets medium armored casting at level 10
•proficient with simple weapons
•Casting is based on intelligence (if you want divine ties, have bonuses spells come from int, and DCs from Wis)
•spell list would contain conjuration (creation, summoning) spells, some evocation, some illusion. no necromancy, transmutation (except some like fly, where you draw wings), or enchantment)
•Advanced learning (any new spell at 5/10/15/20th level)
•I'd add some abilities about drawing stuff, but I'm not sure what... perhaps the ability to cast a conjuration or creation spell in a full rouns to get some bonus
•gets free scribe scroll at level one
•skills: Concentration, craft, decipher script, knowledge (arcana, architecture+engineering, dungeoneering, nature), profession, spellcraft. Add all other knowledge skills if divine. 2+int skills/level

If you don't mind non-traditional class features, I'd use a moderate Fortitude saves and 3_int skills/level.

Sorry for the bad formatting/order.

sorry Zweisteine, from the cellphone I didn't noticed these spoilered part on your message! There are some good ideas, but I generally tend to not like moderate Fortitude and 3+Int! Don't worry about the formatting:)

[Zweisteine]

I always wonder why they don't use odd-numbered skills and moderate saves, but I guess that's just personal preference.



Creating a drawing requires 1 minute during wich the character is considered flat-footed. At 5th level the character can draw faster, and he only requires 5 round to create a drawing. At 10th level he can create one with a standard action. At 15th level the character drawing speed becomes insane and he can create one drawing as a swift action. Theorically, the character could have readied at one time an infinite number of drawings that he can bring with him; the only limit to the number of drawing he can carry with him, are those dictated by common logic (so he is unlikely to bring with him a million sketches without some magical support. I was considering inserting some kind of magical paper adapt at drawing this magic that comes in 20 scrolls a block costing 500gc, so that the character has to spend a little bit before creating his scrolls. At first level however he would get 20 scrolls for free).

I'd say it makes more sense that you'd have to infuse the drawing with magic when you make it, and the drawing activates immediately. As it is now, you have specialized scrolls, that are much cheaper to make, and take far less time. Also, spellcasters do carry around absurd amounts of scrolls, if they can get their hands on them. One of my players' wizard//artificer has at least 100 scrolls on him.

Also, drawing as a swift action is a bit much... Perhaps you should limit that to a certain number of times per day, perhaps with a version of the feat Sudden Quicken Spell.
I'd say at first level, you take one minute to draw, at fourth you need 5 rounds, and at eighth you need one round. Then at twelfth you can draw as a standard action, and at sixteenth you get the ability to draw as a sift action a limited number of times per day.

Also, drawings could have different complexities (casting time), so some drawings always take more or less time. Designing such a system would be tough, but it would make for interesting play. Each complexity level would have its own set of casting times, and the one used is determined by your drawing speed. The system I described above could be for a moderately high complexity.

Because of the slow drawing speeds, perhaps you would be able to carry partially completed drawings, which you can finish as a full-round, standard, or swift action, depending on the drawing's complexity.

I'd say far more, but I'm rather pressed for time at the moment, so that's all I'll say.

[Hanuman]

Oh are you talking about creating life?
Astral construct creates anything, you just sculpt it, but it will still be a construct type once you cut into it.

So here's the question, do you want it biologically replicated or cellular biologically replicated?

Like, do you want to be playing with puppies, or do you want to be playing with a bucket of puppy organs that are assembled into a puppy.


Sit down class being any class which primarily focuses on non-immediate effects, a sorcerer would be a spontenous class where as a http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/cryptic cryptic will do a lot of scribing and trapping and such so they're very plan-oriented but with some combat blasting mixed in.

The gramarie, great example because it's a 1hour/principle class so you basically cannot do anything but plan with it, otherwise you'll just be using a weak eld blast.

[CinuzIta]

I'd say it makes more sense that you'd have to infuse the drawing with magic when you make it, and the drawing activates immediately. As it is now, you have specialized scrolls, that are much cheaper to make, and take far less time. Also, spellcasters do carry around absurd amounts of scrolls, if they can get their hands on them. One of my players' wizard//artificer has at least 100 scrolls on him.

Also, drawing as a swift action is a bit much... Perhaps you should limit that to a certain number of times per day, perhaps with a version of the feat Sudden Quicken Spell.
I'd say at first level, you take one minute to draw, at fourth you need 5 rounds, and at eighth you need one round. Then at twelfth you can draw as a standard action, and at sixteenth you get the ability to draw as a sift action a limited number of times per day.


Fair points, I changed the class accordingly to these.



Also, drawings could have different complexities (casting time), so some drawings always take more or less time. Designing such a system would be tough, but it would make for interesting play. Each complexity level would have its own set of casting times, and the one used is determined by your drawing speed. The system I described above could be for a moderately high complexity.

Because of the slow drawing speeds, perhaps you would be able to carry partially completed drawings, which you can finish as a full-round, standard, or swift action, depending on the drawing's complexity.

I'd say far more, but I'm rather pressed for time at the moment, so that's all I'll say.

As you said, this is quite complicated. It would at least require to already know all of the class' paintings, wich we don't.

Maybe at a later time, I like the idea! :smallwink:


Oh are you talking about creating life?
Astral construct creates anything, you just sculpt it, but it will still be a construct type once you cut into it.

So here's the question, do you want it biologically replicated or cellular biologically replicated?

Like, do you want to be playing with puppies, or do you want to be playing with a bucket of puppy organs that are assembled into a puppy.


Sit down class being any class which primarily focuses on non-immediate effects, a sorcerer would be a spontenous class where as a http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/cryptic cryptic will do a lot of scribing and trapping and such so they're very plan-oriented but with some combat blasting mixed in.

The gramarie, great example because it's a 1hour/principle class so you basically cannot do anything but plan with it, otherwise you'll just be using a weak eld blast.

I'm talking about conjuring normal creatures just like with a normal Summon Natural Ally or Summon Monster spell; the only different thing would be having creatures made of ink (I'm thinking at a template for these Ink creatures). So a construct would not fit very much in my opinion!:)

Okay, now I got what you intended. Well this class will quite be a sit-down class, at the beginning at least. As you can see, at higher levels creating paintings will be faster so even the in-game action would accelerate.



I made some changes to the class. Comments? Suggestions? Also, any idea on how to fill those dead levels would be much appreciated! :)

[Hanuman]

http://www.animehere.com/mushishi-episode-1.html
Episode 1 is about living ink, there you go, no possible reason not to watch :smalltongue:

Mushi are essentially mindless outsiders which act as native to any plane they are currently in, they could exist in multiple planes at once and can freely travel between them.

Honestly type is up to you, my system allows paint to make all sorts of crap, it can make aberrations by forming biological matter, it can make constructs by making them out of material, it can make astral constructs by making them out of ectoplasm, it can summon outsiders by weakening dimensional layers or by making gates, it can form oozes, but that's basically where I draw the line.

As far as I'm concerned, Aberrations, Constructs, Outsiders and Oozes can be shaped into anything else that needs making, and stays more true to the fact that the base material simply isn't anything that could directly become life, only imitate it. Aberrations also dissolve when you remove the paint component, and because the paint isn't held together by anything logically functioning it's about "alive" as undead, as undead are only alive due to a deficit of life, it's a link to the plane of negative energy so they are vacuum powered as if they were a water-wheel overtop a river leading to a great cliff, if that link is severed they die... they are empty.

You could however create true-life, but that in itself is a very, very difficult accomplishment in DnD.

Summon Monster isn't a problem, it's all outsiders anyway.

Summon Natures Ally is actually sort of puzzling, and I don't quite understand how it works actually as it uses actual creatures as if they were outsiders.
I also don't quite understand how they just disappear afterwords or what happens to them when they do. I think they intended to simplify this one in exchange for plotholes... a wizard did it.

----

@Marvelous Pigments
This is a fairly limited ability, and is totally fair.
It needs major creation to qualify for making it, which, you should already have by the time you reach that class feature.
Give the class all the Creation spells as if they were a wizard, as that's essentially the whole theme of the class anyway.

@Seal
D: Seals D:
Anyway, just leaving the painting unfinished does this effect already, you should turn this into Laminate which could put a physical or magical barrier around it, this ability could help you block doors, reinforce walls, and generally fill more terrain utility. Then, figure out a way to remove the barrier to trigger it, you could do this with a swift action, with a command word, with a small symbolic motion with another material or whatever.

@Pen is mightier than the sword
You could draw in mid-air, slash with ribons made of paint strokes, ect.
This opens up a lot of cool things.
If you want to stab someone with a paintbrush, sure, go ahead lol.
Ooo thinking about this reminded me both of:
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Goldenweek
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT7a9qAnpPU
I'm going to go watch those as inspiration.

[CinuzIta]

Thanks Anhuman, your post gave me some inspiration (that's where Ink Stab comes from). But what is that "Laminate" you were talking about? Anyway I was considering about adding in the fluff that leaving a painting incomplete without being sealed would just let all the mystical power in it flow away. So that a player would not start spamming incomplete paintings!

Also, I've updated the op: new special abilities! Next step: filling that dead level, add some new special abilities (if needed or if someone suggest a good one) and then paints (spells) list!

[Hanuman]

@Anhuman
No worries for the typos :smallsmile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swC1kOHQGu8

@Laminate
Well if you can magically seal a painting in, why not seal things out? You could protect your art, and hey, you could apply that barrier to other things too, maybe even dipping into Kaleidomantics and Imachination for way way more inspiration than I can put in a short response. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252794

[CinuzIta]

aye, sorry for the typo:p

Anyway I get now what you intended. I wanted to give the class that wizard's spell (how is it called? Arcane sigil?) anyway! I was thinking at making it works only if the character directly paint it on the interested location or if he affix the paint with that spell infused on the interested door (or whatever he wish to lock) :)

Does this idea seems any good? I wanted to apply the same system also to other spells!

Also, any thoughts about the new special abilities? Ink Serpent for example worries myself a little bit (might it be a bit too strong?)

Edit - Gah....can't believe it! As I was editing the op my cellphone somehow managed to cancel half of the special abilities description..will have to wait until I get back home in order to rewrite everything..-.-

ALWAYS. DO. BACKUP.
*smashes head to the wall*

[Hanuman]

aye, sorry for the typo:p

Anyway I get now what you intended. I wanted to give the class that wizard's spell (how is it called? Arcane sigil?) anyway! I was thinking at making it works only if the character directly paint it on the interested location or if he affix the paint with that spell infused on the interested door (or whatever he wish to lock) :)

Does this idea seems any good? I wanted to apply the same system also to other spells!

Also, any thoughts about the new special abilities? Ink Serpent for example worries myself a little bit (might it be a bit too strong?)

Edit - Gah....can't believe it! As I was editing the op my cellphone somehow managed to cancel half of the special abilities description..will have to wait until I get back home in order to rewrite everything..-.-

ALWAYS. DO. BACKUP.
*smashes head to the wall*
Arcane lock is fine, hold portal is a cheaper alternative, and I'd add a scaling dc bonus to it's STR break based on level. 1/3 level should work if it's on lock and 1/2 if it's replacing the +5 on hold portal, otherwise (1/5)+5 on hold portal.

Let me know when you re-post the abilities.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Ooooo, this reminds me of a class I'm working on, where he draws and or paints, and is mostly a summoning caster too. Subbed.

When I get mine up, lets compare notes!

[CinuzIta]

Arcane lock is fine, hold portal is a cheaper alternative, and I'd add a scaling dc bonus to it's STR break based on level. 1/3 level should work if it's on lock and 1/2 if it's replacing the +5 on hold portal, otherwise (1/5)+5 on hold portal.

Let me know when you re-post the abilities.

I'll take your suggestions in consideration obviously! :)

Abilities re-posted!


Ooooo, this reminds me of a class I'm working on, where he draws and or paints, and is mostly a summoning caster too. Subbed.

When I get mine up, lets compare notes!

This is a nice surprise! I Can't wait to see your work and steal nice abilities from it take some inspiration from your work! :smalltongue:



As said, abilities are up again! What I need now is some new good abilities for the higher levels and especially one as a cap ability! :)

[Hanuman]

@Ink Art
This is the core of the class, this is why people play it.
The DC is fine.
The core mechanic of this class is that you're spending 10 rounds to create an effect, now while you can utilize these effects instantly the interesting thing is that you have a bit of time to make them up, even out of combat you will still have time to think.
This means you can create intricate effects, and write your own.
So really, what you should be doing is creating a system of guidelines which keeps players balanced mechanically, then letting the painter make their own effects on a case-by-case basis.

This requires researching the core rules on spell creation which I am a little foggy on, but that's essentially what this class ability is. Create a spell for every painting.

When I think mystic painter I think perceptive, artistic and intelligent.
I think of great painters seeing minute details in the world and representing them in ways that no one else has thought of, people who create new paradigms for art, I think of great artistic talent and I think of the intelligence to design and create new things, davinchi watching how a bird flaps its wings, inspiration.

When you adapt that to magic I think clairvoyance, I think Synesthete, and most importantly I think of different types of ways the paintings can interact.

You could have the painting come alive, things come out of the painting, or you could have the painting represent change which happens to what is represented in it.

For change that happens because of representation (think voodoo dolls and the like) your effect would be based on intimacy of the subject, which could be a place, an object or a creature. Clairvoyance would help you secure knowledge over places so you don't need a direct line of sight, and you could secure a lock of hair, a name, a sentimental object, a sketch, ect.
Think death note voodoo but the accuracy of the painting determines it's effect so being in a place while making the painting would allow you to make more surreal effects where as just guessing would be kinda sketchy and you could do simple things. Same with just winging a portrait, you could get a close one.

This kind of gives the painter the ability to be more of a macabre figure if she chooses.

The way this works is that you could have abilities which require roleplay, interaction and planning where as others could just be paintings of explosions you could just throw out like blast disks, lol.

[eftexar]

Honestly I would make ink stab deal d6s in damage and raise skill points to 4.
If you plan to have 9th level spells you should probably drop the BaB down to 10, especially since I assume there will be what basically amounts to summoning.

Anyways, cool concept.

[LordErebus12]

Gama approves. :biggrin:
http://images.wikia.com/yuyuhakusho/images/6/67/Kurama_vs._Gama.jpg

nice start to a neat class. hope to see more of it.

[CinuzIta]

@Hanuman: that was what I had in mind when I first thought of the class and it would be a fantastic subsystem, but how can someone create a balanced subsystem that basically states "if you can draw it, you can do it"?

I'd like to have a subsystem like that, and I'd be willing to create it, but there would be many problems with it: the unpredictable fantasy of a player (how can you rule something if you can't think at all of the applications that said thing would have), game mechanics (tough in a limited way) and a not indifferent amount of work to be done.

Again, I'd like to create it (and most probably I'll try to do it and I'll open a thread about it here in the forum) but that seems to be something that would take a lot time, thus not being viable on short terms

On a completely unrelated sidenote, the correct spelling is Da Vinci:)

@eftexar: I was thinking at lowering the bab and raising the skill points as well, but I don't think I'll be powering up the Ink stab since I don't want it to be just a copy/paste of the warlock's eldritch blast and I also want to leave the warlock with his unique class ability

@LordErebus: thank you, but I'm afraid I don't know that anime you posted..might it be yu yu?:)

[LordErebus12]

@LordErebus: thank you, but I'm afraid I don't know that anime you posted..might it be yu yu?:)

Yu Yu Hakusho, yes. During the Dark Tournament one ninja clan member used magical paints mixed with his own blood against Yoko Kurama. It sealed away the demonic powers of Yoko and nearly got him killed.

[Hanuman]

@Hanuman: that was what I had in mind when I first thought of the class and it would be a fantastic subsystem, but how can someone create a balanced subsystem that basically states "if you can draw it, you can do it"?

I'd like to have a subsystem like that, and I'd be willing to create it, but there would be many problems with it: the unpredictable fantasy of a player (how can you rule something if you can't think at all of the applications that said thing would have), game mechanics (tough in a limited way) and a not indifferent amount of work to be done.

Again, I'd like to create it (and most probably I'll try to do it and I'll open a thread about it here in the forum) but that seems to be something that would take a lot time, thus not being viable on short terms

What my class does is use a lot of flavor text to explain specific guidelines on what the appearance can be, then has finite mechanical effects.
I'd start with using the spell creation rules and then possibly install a pointbuy, then allow the class to disguise the effect slightly.

So I was thinking, marvelous pigments is basically just a trade of raw gold to needed resource, if this is on something mundane and only the creator can use it then it's fine for it to be 1:1, so it might be a good idea for it to go:
1:1 Mundane 1:2 Magic 1:5 Wondrous 1:10 Relic

However, an alternate comes to mind, Fate Pigments.
Fate Pigments are something that would allow "dm fuzzy logic" to accomplish, essentially you could bend previous circumstance as long as it's understandable that it could happen on the basis of: "If it COULD happen then it CAN happen so it DID happen."

What this would allow is not the creation of things but the creation of events which opens up another level of time and probability.

Let's say your fighter loses his club while falling into a swiftrunning stream and it's just gone. You could employ fate pigmets to draw the club and let's say you use... 1.5x ratio of gold on the pigments since it's both mundane and a specific item. This could mean it washed up a little bit down stream or got caught floating against some rocks, you guys then travel down and find it, even though "behind the black curtain" it had not been there before and the DM had just considered it "lost".

The same situation could make key events happen, let's say you spot a guard's key ring as he trades shifts, you paint the key ring and the security of the key ring could become compromised in some way, from being left on an outdoor table he's sitting at while eating supper, which would allow an easier distraction and snatch, or being flat out dropped in a drunken stupor.
Fate would conspire to allow your wishes.

This could also effect events involving creatures, lets say instead of the cost of creating a scroll you could employ a similar effect as the spell would employ as if you had cast it, this opens up a whole lot of options, you could summon creatures who don't count as summoned (by paying the cost of both the scroll and buying the creature), and countless other things. :smallwink: