The Flank

[GutterFace]

If you are flying directly above someone (if they know you are there or not)...
does that count as flanking them? Or since the opposite side of them is (presumably) the ground can you never be flanking them?

also does the same apply to those that are burrowing underfoot?

[Ashtagon]

You can't flank anyone if you are all on your own against that enemy. It takes two to flank (exception for obscure feats and class abilities).

[GutterFace]

You can't flank anyone if you are all on your own against that enemy. It takes two to flank (exception for obscure feats and class abilities).

this is exactly the point, you need someone (second person) to occupy the opposite location from you to gain the flanking bonus

but how does that work if you are above/below the intended target, is it by RAW null and void of flanking?

[Lightlawbliss]

that depends: can the 2nd person get to the other side of them? there are ways to get there.

[Fouredged Sword]

A flanker with earth glide can flank from the bottom.

Or a flanker with Iles of Blades can flank from any angle.

[Matticussama]

You don't count as flanking just by flying over them. However, if you get an Earth Elemental (or any other creature with Earth Glide or Burrowing) you could get them to attack from underneath the target so that you could count as flanking.

[Slipperychicken]

Well, the flying creature could flank if it had a burrowing (or incorporeal) ally under the flanked enemy.

EDIT: Ninja'd many times. I am a disgrace to the clan.

[Daftendirekt]

Why on earth would you get flanking bonuses just for being above them? You'd get the +1 for higher ground, sure, but the idea behind the flanking bonus (and rogues getting SA when flanking) is that it's much harder to defend against two people on opposite sides of you than it is to defend against just a single person. The person dividing their attention is what grants you the bonus. The ground is not a flanking partner with you. The target doesn't have to divide their attention between your ass flying above them and the ground they're standing on. Thus, no flanking bonus.

[Fouredged Sword]

Now I want to run an encounter that has a narrow tunnel with earth elementals laying in wait. The first person to walk past has the elementals hiding in the floor/walls take a 5ft step into position and flank him from all directions.

ALL DIRECTIONS! There are elementals in the ceiling!

[GutterFace]

Why on earth would you get flanking bonuses just for being above them? You'd get the +1 for higher ground, sure, but the idea behind the flanking bonus (and rogues getting SA when flanking) is that it's much harder to defend against two people on opposite sides of you than it is to defend against just a single person. The person dividing their attention is what grants you the bonus. The ground is not a flanking partner with you. The target doesn't have to divide their attention between your ass flying above them and the ground they're standing on. Thus, no flanking bonus.

My question was mostly to cover the fact we have a Warblade tank and a Rogue that can fly. we were going to address the issue of Flank because while the Warblade was fighting the Orc the Rogue was above the Orc and was claiming flanking. by rights the Rogue was engaging an enemy that had its attention drawn, but at the same time was not opposite the Warblade.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, get the rogue a pair of gloves of the shadow hand to give him Iles of Blades as a shadow hand stance.

Now he flanks anytime he and an ally threaten a foe, regardless of spacing.

[Slipperychicken]

Well, get the rogue a pair of gloves of the shadow hand to give him Iles of Blades as a shadow hand stance.

Now he flanks anytime he and an ally threaten a foe, regardless of spacing.

Or he could just land (oh no! Another five feet of movement??) if he wants to flank so badly.

[Illarion]

you could get your flanking buddy to get confound the big folk(?) and then he could move under your target thus you both get flanking.

[Slipperychicken]

you could get your flanking buddy to get confound the big folk(?) and then he could move under your target thus you both get flanking.

No, he would occupy the same square, and wouldn't provide flanking IIRC.

[Coidzor]

this is exactly the point, you need someone (second person) to occupy the opposite location from you to gain the flanking bonus

but how does that work if you are above/below the intended target, is it by RAW null and void of flanking?

If they're on opposite sides they're flanking. So if you got a burrower beneath that can attack from the "square" beneath them, then yes.