Up the Movie

[Hattish Thing]

:frown: My... Wha... Why?! This... I... This movie. I was watching it with my girlfriend and her sisters daughter. The daughter wanted to watch Up, and they had it. So I sat there, and started watching it. My girlfriend is a thin, pretty redhead, and I've been dating her for seven years now. I'm a blonde, short, kinda big guy with glasses. Kinda was a bit interesting to see characters that looked like us, they were even lovers! Made me feel wo nice, and warm, and fuzzy inside. :smallbiggrin:

Then... The scene where she passes away, my stomach dropped, and I just stared. Then we see the old man, alone... In the same church where he married the young woman, all dark blue and black shaded colors where it was pink, and green, and festive. :frown: Holy ****. I know this movie's been out for a while... But... That was the most moved I've ever, ever felt in an animated movie.

[Kitten Champion]

This and Where the Wild Things are took me by surprise too.

I couldn't believe films nominally intended for a younger audience were filled with such depressing feels. Oh sure, Disney has its share of tear-jerking and emotionally charged moments, but these were something else.

[Cikomyr]

I will just post this. (Image in spoiler, not a spoiler)

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/324/286/f68.jpg

[Axolotl]

Welcome to the genius that is was Pixar.

It's really hard to say much more about Up than to just that it is a hauntingly beautiful film.

[Dienekes]

Inspired by the topic, I went and youtubed the death of Ellie. And I was amused when I read the top 2 rated comments. The first said how much "feels" the movie made, and the second was the Twilight comparison.

[Hattish Thing]

Mhm, but... The scene where you see the man alone, in the same exact church where he was married to her, holding one black balloon. I blame that one damn balloon. I know Pixar makes good stuff, but Toy Story III was... meh. How to Train Your Dragon was... okay. So, I was caught waaaay off guard.

[Pink]

Mhm, but... The scene where you see the man alone, in the same exact church where he was married to her, holding one black balloon. I blame that one damn balloon. I know Pixar makes good stuff, but Toy Story III was... meh. How to Train Your Dragon was... okay. So, I was caught waaaay off guard.

How to train your dragon was dreamworks.

[Bulldog Psion]

Yes, it's a bit of a surprise. Overall, it's a pretty dark film, looked at from a certain perspective.

[Vaz]

This and 'Brave' number among my top 20 films. Possibly Tangled too.

[Hattish Thing]

Brave was... Stereotypical a bit for me. Girl is doubted by parents, proves them wrong. Girl power, whoo! Which is a good message, but kinda overdone. Up just seemed... Different. It was a movie about dealing with loss, really. The old man didn't take it well... So they show him, and a naive young kid together. Very interesting character interactions.


Oh, sorry Dreamworks.

[Jerthanis]

Brave was... Stereotypical a bit for me. Girl is doubted by parents, proves them wrong. Girl power, whoo! Which is a good message, but kinda overdone. Up just seemed... Different. It was a movie about dealing with loss, really. The old man didn't take it well... So they show him, and a naive young kid together. Very interesting character interactions.


Really? You think that movies depicting women defying cultural norms by rejecting romance and exploring complex personal relationships with other female characters is overdone?

Man, I'd like to visit your alternate dimension at some point.

I wouldn't sing Brave's praises to the sun or anything, but the very LAST thing I would call it is stereotypical.

[Arranis Thelmos]

Really? You think that movies depicting women defying cultural norms by rejecting romance and exploring complex personal relationships with other female characters is overdone?


Well, Mulan and The Little Mermaid are kinda like that (excepting the romance bit in the case of the latter).

[Kitten Champion]

Well, Mulan and The Little Mermaid are kinda like that (excepting the romance bit in the case of the latter).

Yeah, the "wanting something more" theme is ridiculously common among Disney Princesses since the 90's. Even if the conclusion is "they lived happily ever-after" in some hetero-normative relationship is the default, the idea of women acquiring agency through their own initiative is still integral to most of these stories.

Brave's focusing on a mother-daughter relationship is pretty unique though. Most characters, in and out of the Disney catalogue, use the absence or vilification of a mother to put them into a more convenient or sympathetic position. After all, "no one truly gets them" is rolled pretty heavily into these fantasies. The only two which Disney's done thus far which spring immediately to mind are the sequel to Little Mermaid, which was terrible but did put a maiden archetype into a motherly position which is an extremely rare decision. The other was the live-action re imagining of Cinderella, Ever After, where the step-mother is not completely unsympathetic -- but the movie was pretty mediocre over all and her character really needed more exploration.

Personally I prefer Mulan, since marriage or the lack thereof was not the source of conflict. I suppose I lack sympathy for princesses in general.

[Hbgplayer]

*snip*I know Pixar makes good stuff, but Toy Story III was... meh.*snip*

WHAT??? :eek:
Toy Story III was just as good as the original! #2 was...meh, I'll agree, but 3?

[Kyberwulf]

For Brave, while its's not normally female on female action. It is stereotypical and kind of gimmicky. Usually its a son/father type dynamic. In this case they just swapped the gender of the characters.

[erikun]

While the whole "Prince runs away for adventure" is rather common in stories, the reasons behind it in Brave are pretty different. Most princes run off to avoid responsibility and to make their own excitement, while Merida in Brave wanted things to stay as they were at home but with her able to make her own decisions about her life.

I'm a big fan of Brave and Up. Pixar took some rather common story ideas and give them and interesting angle for the story. They also did a very good job and creating the atmosphere, and in putting together the character personalities - just take a look at Charles Muntz, the antagonist in Up. He comes off as a cruel sneaky jerk, but his reasons are quite clear for what he does. It doesn't really make him sympathetic, but giving him and understandable and realistic reason for his actions makes him far more interesting than your average Saturday morning cartoon villian.

[Kyberwulf]

You could also argue, that they run away because they want to live their life how they want. The same could be said about the Merida. She wanted the freedom to choose her own way.

[Soras Teva Gee]

The opening of Up once again proves that Pixar's true medium is non-verbal.


WHAT??? :eek:
Toy Story III was just as good as the original! #2 was...meh, I'll agree, but 3?

I agree... the original was never more then "alright" too

[Hattish Thing]

Really? You think that movies depicting women defying cultural norms by rejecting romance and exploring complex personal relationships with other female characters is overdone?

Man, I'd like to visit your alternate dimension at some point.

I wouldn't sing Brave's praises to the sun or anything, but the very LAST thing I would call it is stereotypical.

My alternate dimension is an odd, dark hole in the ground, somewhere between Bag End and Wonderland. :smalltongue: Well... Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that being done a lot lately. Very strong female heroes, rejecting the romance and such. But... I mean, meh. I didn't like it. The previews showed so little, but left so much to my imagination, I built it up to be some kind of amazing new movie! And... I found it... Lacking. Maybe it's just me. All I saw was a father/son fairy tale with different genders.

Well, yes. I liked Muntz. He was... Probably a bit insane, and mean-spirited. But, he had his reasons... And they were reasons most would find completely justified. He just.... Went a little too far.

Toy Story-wise... Well. I liked it, yes. The idea of my favorite childhood toys coming to life does make me smile now and again. Good, and as a child I loved it. Not sure what all the fuss for three was about. Admittedly, the furnace thing was... Disturbing to see in a children's food. But nothing more... Unnerving than the voodoo shadows in Friend's on the Other Side, from the Princess and the Frog. Or Hellfire from Hunchback of Notre Dame... Or The Oogie Boogie song from Nightmare Before Christmas, or the deaths of Scar.... And The Shadowman. Know what, actually... It really wasn't that unusual to have a scene like that.

[Jerthanis]

Yeah, the "wanting something more" theme is ridiculously common among Disney Princesses since the 90's. Even if the conclusion is "they lived happily ever-after" in some hetero-normative relationship is the default, the idea of women acquiring agency through their own initiative is still integral to most of these stories.

I agree with you, but if we're breaking down any story in which a character takes initiative to fulfil their desire for "something more", you're seriously grouping almost every story ever written together. At this level, calling it a stereotype means any story featuring a princess as the main character is a stereotypical story.

I'm not calling Brave some spectacular masterpiece of creativity and originality, but it just seems to me that you have to trim away all the details of the story, of her specific interests and relationships in order to get to the point where her story could be called stereotypical.

I mean, "A person with significant parentage wants a life they don't currently have, they make a mistake in the process of pursuing this goal and as a result one of their parents suffers a wound or in some way debilitating transformation before that person ultimately shoulders responsibility and then everything works out." is a story arc that can be applied with equal accuracy to Brave as well as the Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast with some stretching... but it can also apply to Star Wars, or to Jesus.

If you break things down too far, and trim away details far enough, every story can be made to look like any other story. Brave's details were different in significant ways from Mulan and Little Mermaid, and those details form the backbone of the story of that movie. These stories can be compared, yes, but they can also be contrasted greatly.


My alternate dimension is an odd, dark hole in the ground, somewhere between Bag End and Wonderland. :smalltongue: Well... Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that being done a lot lately. Very strong female heroes, rejecting the romance and such. But... I mean, meh. I didn't like it. The previews showed so little, but left so much to my imagination, I built it up to be some kind of amazing new movie! And... I found it... Lacking. Maybe it's just me. All I saw was a father/son fairy tale with different genders.

I didn't particularly like Brave myself, but one of the strengths it had going for it I thought was the fact that it wasn't super stereotypical in my opinion.

If you've seen so much of this "Very strong female heroes rejecting romance" lately... can you give me some suggestions? I mean... I did mention wanting to visit your alternate dimension where such things ARE common. Can you name some stories like this?

[Avilan the Grey]

Pixar:
Up was brilliant. Especially the intro. The heavily hinted miscarriage is very sad, but also very well done.

Rattatoie (I know I spelled it wrong) was... Meh. Well done, but boring. Very very boring.

Cars 2? The first truly bad movie Pixar ever made.

Toy Story III? Better than II. Not brilliant, but very very good.

Brave was decent. I liked the characters more than the story and was one of those that raged when Disney got their hands on Meridia and tried to turn her into a "disney princess" (*gag sounds*). They already ruined Mulan in their merchandise.

Really looking forward to Monster University though.

Dreamworks on the other hand has been on a winning streak since Kung Fu Panda.

How to train your dragon is one of my top 5 animated movies of all time. Both Kung Fu Pandas are in my top 10. Megamind is just outside of the top 10.

Disney Proper has also shaped up again. Tangled was amazing. PLanes, on the other hand, will probably be skipped entirely.

And then we have the bit players. Sony's (it was Sony, wasn't it?) Despicable me was also very very good, for example.

Anyway, my 0,2 SEK.

[The_Snark]

II didn't particularly like Brave myself, but one of the strengths it had going for it I thought was the fact that it wasn't super stereotypical in my opinion.

If you've seen so much of this "Very strong female heroes rejecting romance" lately... can you give me some suggestions? I mean... I did mention wanting to visit your alternate dimension where such things ARE common. Can you name some stories like this?

The rebellious princess rejecting her arranged marriage is a trope that's so ingrained in the public consciousness that it's difficult to find a story that plays it straight these days*. I was somewhat surprised, watching Brave, that they did it.

It was nice that Brave focused on the mother-daughter relationship, because that's absent in a lot of mainstream media. But the execution felt... lacking. The plot was somewhat predictable; nothing after the first half of the movie surprised me at all. The characters were okay, but not compelling enough to compensate for that. It didn't have anything new to say about its themes or subject material, though the element of compromise makes the message palatable. I just don't feel it has any strengths as a movie, I guess. I didn't hate it, I had a decent time in the theater, but I have no desire to ever see it again.

*I'm sure I could name you some popcorn fantasy/romance books featuring this, but most of them included a non-arranged love interest, so I wouldn't say they qualify as 'rejecting romance'.

Um. Back on topic, yes, the opening section of Up was excellent.

[Kitten Champion]

I agree with you, but if we're breaking down any story in which a character takes initiative to fulfil their desire for "something more", you're seriously grouping almost every story ever written together. At this level, calling it a stereotype means any story featuring a princess as the main character is a stereotypical story.


It's not as if I'm working hard to make comparisons here. She's been inducted into Disney Princessdom not too long ago. This is a company which has a very... consistent vision as to what themes enter their animated feature-length movies. Of course people such as myself are going to see the similarities in what some of the the most significant works in popular culture. I will and do recognize a number of points consistent with those they're renowned for. Yes, most stories involve going from rags to riches as a reward for surmounting obstacles, but Disney Princesses clearly have their own related and relatively similar narratives - pre-90's they deal with traditional femininity tropes you'd find in stories, post-90's they've got a strong (if not successful or utterly confused) modern feminist bent. Although this has been critiqued the hell out of at this point.

A heroine who rejects unwanted love (Beauty and the Beast, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Enchanted, and aforementioned Ever After) an evil witch (too many to list), an endangered parent and a race to reverse a spell (yeah, this too). Brave wasn't going out on a limb here, they're gripping the trunk quite firmly. You can say I'm trimming it down but the plot isn't deeply complex, the fact that she's fourteen and in most respects a child to us makes her resistance all the less meaningful.

What would not be stereotypical of the Disney, is if she accepted her responsibilities, married who her parents wanted, and became a Queen and matriarch who wields authority over subjects. Not a good movie, but shocking certainly, plucky heroines and character building journeys are where it's at.

What makes this movie more than just another forgettable Disney movie is the technical achievement in the CG department and the significance of the Mother-Daughter relationship which is consistently absent from the vast majority of popular animated films. However, compared to UP!, The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, and WALL*E the level of imagination or novelty isn't here.

[Jerthanis]

What would not be stereotypical of the Disney, is if she accepted her responsibilities, married who her parents wanted, and became a Queen and matriarch who wields authority over subjects. Not a good movie, but shocking certainly, plucky heroines and character building journeys are where it's at.


D... did you forget how Medina totally did that? And by doing that proved to her mother that she was not simply being a willfully obstinate child and that act changed the mother's mind and encouraged her to do as she wanted. This is actually sort of the turning point of their relationship, and therefore the movie. Because while the movie contains a witch (not evil, you'll note), a curse, a race, a parent in peril, these aren't the crux of the movie compared to the mother-daughter relationship.

Heck, if you're saying that this movie is indistinguishable from Beauty and the Beast and Hunchback is essentially throwing the entire actual plot, themes, and characters of each of these movies and compare them only on their superfluous plot details, their possession of a supernatural element, and character archetypes... at which point you seriously may as well compare them to Star Wars if that's all you're looking at.

[Hattish Thing]

What The_Snark said. :smalltongue:

[Killer Angel]

Then... The scene where she passes away, my stomach dropped, and I just stared. Then we see the old man, alone... In the same church where he married the young woman, all dark blue and black shaded colors where it was pink, and green, and festive. :frown: Holy ****. I know this movie's been out for a while... But... That was the most moved I've ever, ever felt in an animated movie.

It took me a while, before wanting to see it again...

[Kato]

While those first few minutes of Up are just as amazing as about anyone points it out to me I have to say the rest of the movie was only... okay to me. Not bad or anything and maybe it is because the beginning is just so "wow" but it felt very average and I kind of had a hard time enjoying it for some reason.

[dehro]

it doesn't help the feels about this movie that my dad kind of looks like the old man...

[Joran]

While those first few minutes of Up are just as amazing as about anyone points it out to me I have to say the rest of the movie was only... okay to me. Not bad or anything and maybe it is because the beginning is just so "wow" but it felt very average and I kind of had a hard time enjoying it for some reason.

The first few minutes and the middle scene when he finds her old scrapbook were the best parts of the movie. Everything else was only okay, but those two scenes hit me the hardest because I'm married.

It's similar to how I didn't like Finding Nemo as much as others (I wasn't married and didn't have any kids), but I'm sure I'll bawl if I rewatch later when my kids are the same age as Nemo was in the movie.

[Killer Angel]

it doesn't help the feels about this movie that my dad kind of looks like the old man...

So... did your dad looks like Spencer Tracy? :smallwink:

[dehro]

So... did your dad looks like Spencer Tracy? :smallwink:

he's got the square-ish head/hairdo, the square glasses and a bit of a jaw.. so.. he looks somewhat like the character, albeit coming at it from a different direciton than Spencer Tracy..
since you're italian..think Romano Prodi.

[Killer Angel]

since you're italian..think Romano Prodi.

:smallbiggrin:
It never occured me, but yeah, they're pretty similar.
...and now I'll have the image of Prodi, surfing the skies on this zeppelin... :smalltongue:

[dehro]

:smallbiggrin:
It never occured me, but yeah, they're pretty similar.
...and now I'll have the image of Prodi, surfing the skies on this zeppelin... :smalltongue:

I should probasbly aspologize for that :smallbiggrin: