[PF]Ring of Sustenance and vampirism

[PlusSixPelican]

What happens to a vampire if they are wearing a Ring of Sustenance? Does it remove the need to feed?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Is there a rule that specifically says Vampires have the need to feed? I don't remember it being so explicit about that. With that in mind, a ring of sustenance wouldn't have any effect.


Yes, I have been privy to a player and DM arguing against me that vampires don't actually have to drink blood/absorb essence/whatever by RAW, as their are no penalties associated with not drinking blood.

[elonin]

Libris Mortis says they do. Though it doesn't state what happens if they don't.

[PlusSixPelican]

Oh, found it, Ring of Sust doesn't help. Good to know. ^^

[Raven777]

Libris Mortis says they do. Though it doesn't state what happens if they don't.

Libris Mortis is not relevant to Pathfinder's RAW, though. Blood of the Night, the companion book for vampires and vampire hunters, however, is (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire#TOC-Creatures-And-Their-Hunger). Note that though it says that vampires do need to stave off their hunger with blood every few days, it also says it can be an animal's blood. The only drawback from feeding from cattle is entirely fluff, it tasting "dull" and not being as "satisfying" as feeding on intelligent beings.

You might also be interrested to know that RAW allows you to craft a Wondrous Item of Protective Penumbra (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protective-penumbra) for... *napkin math*... 9,000 gp.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I love how protective penumbra makes vampires immune to the effects of bright sunlight, and allows vampires to see just fine when they are in it, but only gives normal people a +2 bonus to not be sunburned, and against "glare."

Rant on how stupidly good being a vampire is for spellcasters in Pathfinder
But yeah, most sorcerers should pretty much have the goal "I want to become a vampire" at this point. There are almost no drawbacks of any serious matter, and you get huge bonuses.

Downsides:
- Only form of sustenance is human blood (Or you can live of livestock, like everyone else)
- You can't go in the sun (Oh wait, there is a spell for that)
- Can't be within 5ft of a holy symbol or a mirror (DC 25 will save to ignore)
- Can't be immersed in running water (Oh wait, there's a spell for that, too (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/lifeBubble.html#_life-bubble-))
- CR +2

Upsides:
- Boosts to every ability score (except con which you don't have anymore)
- 6 bonus feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightening Reflexes, Toughness
- +8 Racial bonus to Stealth, Sense Motive, Perception, and Bluff
- Gain DR , Fast Healing 2, Energy Resistance Cold and Electricity 10, Undead Immunities, Channel Resistance, +6 Natural Armor to AC
- There is basically one 1 way to kill you, and it's a stake to the heart + decapitation, while you are helpless
- Energy Drain, temporary hp (Blood Drain), and leadership (create spawn) as attacks.
- Fun roleplaying "quirks"

Honestly, unless your DM is an *******, in which case he probably won't allow it in the first place, there is no downside to wanting to be a vampire.

[zlefin]

that sounds like a terrible deal; CR+2 = LA+2 in pathfinder;
and the number one rule for casting classes is NEVER lose casting progression; well, almost never at any rate.
Also that sun vulnerability is still there, if it gets dispelled you can wind up very dead very fast.
Having finished playing devil's advocated, that is some pretty sweet bonuses in PF version; it should probably be CR+3, as clerics aren't as good against you as in 3.5
In 3.5 a hunter would just walk up and instagib you.

[Squirrel_Dude]

that sounds like a terrible deal; CR+2 = LA+2 in pathfinder; and the number one rule for casting classes is NEVER lose casting progression; well, almost never at any rate.

Also that sun vulnerability is still there, if it gets dispelled you can wind up very dead very fast.If it is dispelled you gain the staggered condition. That means you can take a standard or a move, and a swift and free actions.

You're a sorcerer, and you'll know the spell. Just cast penumbra on yourself again. You're a sorcerer with a now unnaturally high charisma, you'll outlast the guy dispelling you. >.>

[Keneth]

Even though OP has already found the answer, here's the relevant quote from Blood of the Night:


Feats and abilities that affect mortal hunger (such as Endurance or a ring of sustenance) do not apply to vampire hunger.


that sounds like a terrible deal; CR+2 = LA+2 in pathfinder;

There is no LA in Pathfinder. There are variant rules for emulating LA, but by default, you're free to play a drow noble vampire with no LA whatsoever.

[Raven777]

Oh, and after you are done with your Amulet of Protective Penumbra, I suggest you keep trucking onward and hijack a Paladin to make an Item of Grace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-grace) for.. *more napkin math*... 16,000 gp. Fool it through UMD to pretend being Good, get Charisma to all your saves, never worry about Control Undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/control-undead). Ever. Again. Or about anything that involves a saving throw, actually.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Let's see, a Drow Vampires Saving throws, with an item of grace, at level 20 would be...

Let's start with 16 (14+2 racial) dex, 20 cha (18+2 racial) cha, 10 Wis.
Dex: +6 belt, +4 Racial, +2 Tome = 28
Wis: +6 Headband, +2 Racial, +2 Tome = 20
Cha: +6 headband, +4 Racial, +5 Level, +5 Tome = 40 (remember undead apply charisma to fort saves)

{table] Bonus Source | Fort | Ref | Will
Base Save | 6 | 6 | 12
Ability Scores | 15 | 9 | 5
Cloak of Resistance | 5 | 5 | 5
Item of Grace | ?15? | 15 | 15
Lightening Reflexes | 0 | 2 | 0
Total | +41 | +37 | +37[/table]

[SSGoW]

Libris Mortis is not relevant to Pathfinder's RAW, though. Blood of the Night, the companion book for vampires and vampire hunters, however, is (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire#TOC-Creatures-And-Their-Hunger). Note that though it says that vampires do need to stave off their hunger with blood every few days, it also says it can be an animal's blood. The only drawback from feeding from cattle is entirely fluff, it tasting "dull" and not being as "satisfying" as feeding on intelligent beings.

You might also be interrested to know that RAW allows you to craft a Wondrous Item of Protective Penumbra (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/protective-penumbra) for... *napkin math*... 9,000 gp.

Well if you go by the thought that Pathfinder is 3rd party material for 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons (which technically it is or atleast a lot of homebrew rules tacked on) then yeah Libris Mortis all the way.

It really wouldn't hurt to use Libris Mortis for the fluff and some mechanics since they seem to be lacking in Pathfinder as of yet. BoVD and BoED too.

:smallbiggrin:

[PlusSixPelican]

Well if you go by the thought that Pathfinder is 3rd party material for 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons (which technically it is or atleast a lot of homebrew rules tacked on) then yeah Libris Mortis all the way.

It really wouldn't hurt to use Libris Mortis for the fluff and some mechanics since they seem to be lacking in Pathfinder as of yet. BoVD and BoED too.

:smallbiggrin:

PF has a book about vampires, though. It's called Blood of the Night.


Oh, and after you are done with your Amulet of Protective Penumbra, I suggest you keep trucking onward and hijack a Paladin to make an Item of Grace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-grace) for.. *more napkin math*... 16,000 gp. Fool it through UMD to pretend being Good, get Charisma to all your saves, never worry about Control Undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/control-undead). Ever. Again. Or about anything that involves a saving throw, actually.

I can't find one, but an Antipaladin spell of that nature existing is entirely plausible, no problems with the alignment-defying. Not that forcing a Paladin to do things isn't ever so fun, it's just that the item would be challenging to use. Here's a version of such a spell, as made up by me.

Profane Finesse

School evocation [evil]; Level antipaladin 2
---
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
---
Range touch
Targets onevil creature touched
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

With this spell you can bestow your profane finesse on another evil creature for a short amount of time, infusing that creature with a portion of your unholy vice. When you touch the subject, you grant that creature a profane bonus to its saving throws equal to its Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
While it also felt like an abjuration spell, since it uses the power of virtue (or vice, in this case), it feels more like it's evoking the alignment, personally. Does Pathfinder have combined-school spells?

An item of the spell, in order to last all the time (and thus be helpful), would be mathed in at...

(2*4*2000)*2 gp
(Continuous min/level wondrous item.)

Total: 32,000 gp.

Related, the constant Protective Penumbra costs in at;

(2*4*2000)*1.5 gp
(Continuous 10 min/level wondrous item.)

Total: 24,000 gp

I can craft this one, though, so it's rather inexpensive.


There is no LA in Pathfinder. There are variant rules for emulating LA, but by default, you're free to play a drow noble vampire with no LA whatsoever.

This...this takes the doubt out of it. Powerful? Probably, but it comes with weaknesses, which are partially (but not completely) handle-able. Running water doesn't hurt you if your form has a swim speed; I don't need Life Bubble if I have Alter Self.

I should probably put my coffin in a demiplane. Getting to it would be as simple as Plane Shift-ing (with Silent Spell if I'm gas-derped) and hiding in there for an hour.

If I'm adventuring, if I reach 0 hit points, I imagine I can heal myself with negative energy on the fly if I have to. I should probably keep a wand of Inflict Light Wounds around for emergencies, although I do have fast healing 5.

[Raven777]

While you are at it, try to nab the Swarm Form Variant Ability (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire#TOC-Swarm-Form-Su-CR-0-). Because turning into a Dire Bat is cool, but turning into a swarm of bats is cooler.

[Keneth]

I can't find one, but an Antipaladin spell of that nature existing is entirely plausible, no problems with the alignment-defying.

Indeed, I've researched a similar Antipaladin 2, Sorcerer/Wizard 3 spell. I also enjoy singing Anything You Can Do (I Can Do Better) every time I come across a good-aligned caster.


This...this takes the doubt out of it. Powerful? Probably, but it comes with weaknesses, which are partially (but not completely) handle-able.

My mythic vampire sorcerer has been able to shed all the weaknesses, but the coffin (still working on that one). It's a significant boost in power, so the GM has to bump encounters accordingly, but it's definitely a great option for many classes, especially sorcerers.

[PlusSixPelican]

My mythic vampire sorcerer has been able to shed all the weaknesses, but the coffin (still working on that one). It's a significant boost in power, so the GM has to bump encounters accordingly, but it's definitely a great option for many classes, especially sorcerers.

How'd you handle getting into private homes? I assume you can Dominate the homeowner if they're home, or otherwise send in a summoned monster or familiar.

[Raven777]

How'd you handle getting into private homes? I assume you can Dominate the homeowner if they're home, or otherwise send in a summoned monster or familiar.

You can always do it the Artemis Fowl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/ArtemisFowl?from=Main.ArtemisFowl) way : set the house on fire. The residents calling for help should count as an invitation.

Or you just get any of your co-adventurers to step in, then invite you. Do the rules specify that you have to be a resident of the home to hand invitations?

[Keneth]

How'd you handle getting into private homes? I assume you can Dominate the homeowner if they're home, or otherwise send in a summoned monster or familiar.

Like I said, the character is a Mythic Vampire. At rank 8, you no longer require an invitation to enter homes.

[Felandria]

I love how protective penumbra makes vampires immune to the effects of bright sunlight, and allows vampires to see just fine when they are in it, but only gives normal people a +2 bonus to not be sunburned, and against "glare."

Rant on how stupidly good being a vampire is for spellcasters in Pathfinder
But yeah, most sorcerers should pretty much have the goal "I want to become a vampire" at this point. There are almost no drawbacks of any serious matter, and you get huge bonuses.

Downsides:
- Only form of sustenance is human blood (Or you can live of livestock, like everyone else)
- You can't go in the sun (Oh wait, there is a spell for that)
- Can't be within 5ft of a holy symbol or a mirror (DC 25 will save to ignore)
- Can't be immersed in running water (Oh wait, there's a spell for that, too (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/lifeBubble.html#_life-bubble-))
- CR +2

Upsides:
- Boosts to every ability score (except con which you don't have anymore)
- 6 bonus feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightening Reflexes, Toughness
- +8 Racial bonus to Stealth, Sense Motive, Perception, and Bluff
- Gain DR , Fast Healing 2, Energy Resistance Cold and Electricity 10, Undead Immunities, Channel Resistance, +6 Natural Armor to AC
- There is basically one 1 way to kill you, and it's a stake to the heart + decapitation, while you are helpless
- Energy Drain, temporary hp (Blood Drain), and leadership (create spawn) as attacks.
- Fun roleplaying "quirks"

Honestly, unless your DM is an *******, in which case he probably won't allow it in the first place, there is no downside to wanting to be a vampire.

Except for when the other players resent you for getting to be a vampire, even when it was totally the DM's idea.

I mean, I already got to be a giant, it really wasn't fair for me to get both the upgrades.

[Raven777]

Except for when the other players resent you for getting to be a vampire, even when it was totally the DM's idea.

I mean, I already got to be a giant, it really wasn't fair for me to get both the upgrades.

Weren't you also a demi-god or such?

[Felandria]

Weren't you also a demi-god or such?

Well, the DM made her Zeus's daughter, so maybe technically, but that wasn't a part of that campaign.

I'm running my own campaign now, set twenty years later.

I made her the NPC who hires the party, the vampirism long removed but she now lives on Olympus, learning at her father's side.

When the party gets up to epic level (lv 25) then we start the epic level campaign where she joins them.

The first campaign ended at level 15, and when I found the Godling prestige class, I knew I had to use it, and have recommended it to the other players.

Incidentally, next session I plan to send the party to an alternate timeline where they will fight the old party, converted to vampires.

[Raven777]

You know, that's the one single thing I would worry about a player becoming a vampire : that player offering vampirism to the whole party. Now that would turn the whole campaign around real fast...

[Lord Vukodlak]

I would say that a ring of sustenance only provides life sustaining nourishment not unlife sustaining nourishment. Vampires are not moody outcasts that sparkle and play in the forest.



If I'm adventuring, if I reach 0 hit points, I imagine I can heal myself with negative energy on the fly if I have to. I should probably keep a wand of Inflict Light Wounds around for emergencies, although I do have fast healing 5.
Doesn't work when a vampire is reduced to 0 hit points they revert to gaseous form and must reach there coffin within 2 hours or they die. There is no other option, no mention the vampire can heal himself or be healed by other means.

[Keneth]

You know, that's the one single thing I would worry about a player becoming a vampire : that player offering vampirism to the whole party.

I don't see anything wrong with that. If you're gonna offer one player the option of becoming a vampire, then every player should have equal options. It's the same with lycanthropy and other similar situations.


I would say that a ring of sustenance only provides life sustaining nourishment not unlife sustaining nourishment

You don't have to speculate on anything, the rules in Blood of the Night cover this, as mentioned earlier.


There is no other option, no mention the vampire can heal himself or be healed by other means.

That's up for debate. Just because a different method isn't listed, doesn't mean no other methods are viable.

[Raven777]

That's up for debate. Just because a different method isn't listed, doesn't mean no other methods are viable.

Like Silent Still Infernal Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/infernal-healing).

[Crasical]

Can I have my Protective Penumbra take the form of a glowing yellow aura over my body? :smallbiggrin:

http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/5/54/Darkstalkers_Demitri.png
Demitri Maximoff, Darkstalkers series.

[Raven777]

Only if you also use Battering Blast (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/battering-blast) to falcon punch sassy clerics.