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Ursus the Grim
2013-06-01, 08:14 PM
They said I was crazy. A battletitan couldn't be done, they said, not without extreme cheese! I'll show them! I'll show them all!

Long post ahead.

Hey, Playgrounders, its Ursus again.

As suggested by my signature, I've always been a fan of the battletitan dinosaur, and look for ways incorporate it into games. Unfortunately, the players really haven't had a chance to do it themselves (aside from throwing a few hundred thousand gold pieces at the DM). Until now.

This class feels like an arcane ranger with refined focus. I'll spare you the fluff at this point (unless you really want it), but essentially the class gets a battletitan companion that grows as the character takes levels. Its starts as a small, 2 HD lizard and picks up more (many more) hit die and a half-dozen abilities that can be ferocious, magical, or just plain strange.

In terms of flexibility, I expect the class to fall under tier two or three. I see it being useful for wilderness survival, some spellcasting, and of course, various combat purposes. In terms of raw combat potential, I expect it to end up squarely in two. The thought of a mutated gargantuan dinosaur may sound horrifying, but compared to full spellcasters, martial adepts, and certain builds at the level it occurs, I don't think its really that overpowered. I don't expect it to be 'fair' alongside, say, a core fighter or archery ranger, but really, what is?

I'm going to be developing this in stages, even though I think I'm mostly done on paper. Right now, I have a pile of abilities for the main class. I'd like your help determining where these abilities should fall in terms of the advancement from 1-20, and I'd appreciate any feedback you may have. Each ability will have a short, crunch-only description and a spoiler block with my thoughts on the subject. Abilities are posted in no particular order.

The Class so Far
Caller of the Titan
Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 4+Int Modifier
Sample Class Skills: Ride, Handle Animal, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Nature), Survival, Concentration, Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Geography)
Good Saves: Reflex, Will
Poor Saves: Fortitude
Base Attack Bonus: Moderate (as Cleric)
Important Abilities: Wisdom for spells and Bloodletter abilities. Intelligence for wild empathy, handle animal, and skill points. Dexterity for Armor class, reflex saves, and Bloodletter abilities. Constitution for fortitude saves, Concentration, and general survivability.
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple.
Armor Proficiencies: Light to Medium, no shields.

The class itself, at this point, resembles a ranger, but where the ranger channels diving magic drawn from the wilderness and slogs alongside his companion into combat, the Caller uses his intelligence to guide and train the Titan as he advances, dancing about his protector while harrying the enemy with spells. The class will only end up with 6th level spells (ala Bard and Ranger) and so I didn't want to make it useless in combat. At the same time, I wanted to avoid full BaB and d12 HD. The Titan is the brawler, after all. I feel like its a mediocre, but not useless, chassis.

Wild Empathy (ex):
As the druid ability, but the Caller adds his Intelligence modifier instead of Charisma.

The class was originally quite MAD, honestly, and this is where I felt I could fix that. The Caller has read and studied enough of animal habits to justify him using his knowledge to read their behavior. I considered a dino-only clause, but didn't see enough justification to. I'd probably assign this at a low level.


Living Cover (ex):
A Caller who is no larger than his titan is treated as having partial cover when immediately adjacent to it.

I wanted to provide a reason for the partial caster to enter combat instead of just sitting back and watching. To do this, I crafted some abilities that encourage him to get in there and support the titan. This is the first, probably assigned at a low level. The titan hits medium size at five, so somewhere in that area would make the most sense. Its short, simple, and not horribly broken, I think.

Instinctive Counterspell (sp):
A Caller who observes a spell being cast that targets his titan may attempt to counter that spell as an immediate action. No knowledge (other than the target) of the spell is revealed to the Caller, though he may make a Spellcraft check as usual to identify the spell. If the Caller chooses to counter the spell, they immediately expend a spell slot of the highest level they can cast. If all such spell slots have already been expended, the Caller instead takes one point of Constitution damage per level of the countered spell.

Now, there is only one ability that the Battletitan has the chance to get that provides any protection against spells, and the class as envisioned doesn't load down the titan with Spell Resistant Full Plate (not that I ever thought that was effective). This helps the Caller potentially save his main class feature from being destroyed by a Save or Die. At the same time, I feel I balanced the risk versus the reward enough. The costs (either a limited spell slot or even more limited Con points) should cause the player to think hard about whether or not its worth it to try and counter that spell, about the likelihood that the Titan can make that save or tank the damage, and a thinking player is a good player*.It also encourages development in Spellcraft. The costs also prevent the countered spell from being entirely ineffective. Sure, the Titan may have escaped Imprisonment, but the Caller is now down 9 points of Con. This would likely be a higher level (10-15) ability, so that the Caller doesn't get to trade Longstrider as a counterspell.

*unless they play a wizard.

Secret of Bloodletting
Once per round, when your titan makes a successful melee attack against an enemy with thirty feet of you, you may make an attack of opportunity (if you threaten it), cast a spell of up to two levels lower than the highest castable, or use any ability with the keyword bloodletter.

This started off with just being an AoO, but I realized that would be mostly useless for most Callers, and nobody likes a useless ability. Then I added the spell clause. I may actually drop the spell clause, because most of the spells on the Caller's class list wouldn't qualify. The Bloodletter abilities are incoming, and are essentially their 'blasty' spells. This has the potential to be pretty powerful, but I don't see it being broken by the average Caller. 8-12th level.

Lashing Claws (sp, Bloodletter)
Ranged or melee touch attack, Usable 3/day, deals 1d6 damage per class level+Wisdom modifier. Medium range.

Gnashing Maw (sp, Bloodletter)
Ranged or melee touch attack. Usable 1/day. Deals 2d6 damage per class level+Wisdom modifier and stuns the target for 1 round. Close range.

Thrashing Tail (sp, Bloodletter)
Ranged or melee touch attack. Usable 3/day. Deals 1d4 damage per class level + Wisdom modifier. Free trip attempt and opponent takes 1 damage per level for Wis Mod turns. Long Range.

These are the core Bloodletter abilities, the blasty 'spells' that the Caller gets. Each will probably be assigned at a different level and is meant to support the titan and other party members in combat while still evoking the fluff of the class. They could use some rephrasing and such, of course. I'm thinking Claws 3ish, Tail 7ish, Maw 10ish?

Channel the Titan (su)
As a full-round action, the Caller may put his titan into a trance and draw power directly from it. While channeling the titan, the Caller gains +4 Str, +4 Con, and +2 Natural Armor. This effect ends if the titan takes damage (which stuns the caller) or when the caller dismisses it (as a free action).

You know what would suck for someone who picked this class to play with a dinosaur? Tiny hallways. This gives the player the feeling that they haven't been completely crippled by admittedly realistic situations, while not negating the DM's efforts to change things up a bit. I think this should be reasonably early, such as 4th level.

Unleash the Titan (ex)
Usable 3/day. Sends the Titan into a barbarian's Greater Rage. Titan is fatigued for 1 minute after combat ends.

Nothing special here. +6 to Str and Con are a little much for lower levels but not much when they get to high levels, so I'd probably be looking between 8 and 12 I think.

Borrow the Blood (su)
The Caller may leech hit points from his titan. The Caller gains 1 hp for every 5 hp the titan loses.

I wanted this to be a steep exchange. The Titan will have twice the HD the Caller has, and a much higher Constitution, so I didn't want it to be an effectively endless pool. 5 to 1 seems to hit that sweet spot between steep and not arbitrary and easy to math.

Fitting Rebirth (su)
24 hours after death the Caller's corpse may give birth to a young, 2 HD battletitan. If the Caller chooses to "respawn", it cannot be resurrected short of Wish shenanigans.

I think this is all fluff and my desire to give every player a chance to recover (theoretically) from a TPK. . . and because everyone secretly wants to play a Battletitan that is awakened by their old comrades. This isn't a capstone, because its functionally useless, but I think it should be pretty high nonetheless.

Mage of Motion (ex)
The Caller does not need to make Concentration checks to cast or maintain a spell due to vigorous motion while mounted on their Titan. In addition, they receive a +4 bonus to Concentration rolls when adjacent to the titan.

This was originally going to be a flat, circumstantial buff to Concentration checks for casting while mounted, but the DC is only 10+level anyway. Figured this would be simpler while effectively identical. I see no harm in giving this at low to mid levels. 5-11?

Gullet of the Titan (sp, bloodletting)
Once per day, target makes a will save (10+half level+Wis) or is instantly transported to the stomach of your titan. Spell fails if the target is too large.

This is, for many enemies, a potential save or die spell. It would have to come at at MINIMUM level 10, as that's when the Titan first gets Swallow Whole. I'm thinking 15ish, as that's when the Titan gets to Huge and can swallow medium creatures.

Secrets of the Brood (ex)
With one month of work and an investment costing 50,000 gp and 4,000 xp, the Caller can produce a young battletitan (which must still be domesticated). Assumes there is some terrible lizard stock nearby.

Well, this IS what the class is all about, isn't it? For most players, this provides a way to replace their titan if it gets killed without relying on DM fiat. It also gives them the chance to play the Kingmaker, so to speak, especially with the excellent fluff that the MMIII gives to the importance of battletitans for the military. I'm thinking capstone here.

Frequently Asked Potential Questions

Woah, woah, woah. A battletitan? Seriously?
Actually, yes, I think so. I don't think its as powerful as it appears on first glance. First, look at its damage output. Staggeringly low for its CR. . . and that's AFTER taking Improved Natural Attack twice. When was the last time anyone felt threatened by 3d6+16 damage at level 16? The titan, as presented, is a pile of Hit Points and little else, in my opinion.

But this is easily breakable with XYZ class!
Possible, but if there's a class out there, someone can break it. I think this class is also resistant to most cheesiness, as it REQUIRES advancement in order to keep the Titan and its spells up to date.

Where are the Titan's abilities?
They're coming. I have them all planned out, but this post's lengths would probably triple. Essentially, there's a menu of mutations/infusions they pick from as the caller advances, allowing the caller to specialize or broaden their options as desired. Things range from increasing damage with an acidic bite, gobbling things up quickly, to developing a chamelon-like tongue and more. This won't be another bland monster, promise. Unless you want it to be. I also want to get the main class ironed out before I bring the titan in, as I think people would want to see them side-by-side to make a decision.

Where are the Caller's Spells?
You know what? Let's assume he uses the Ranger's spell lists. He probably really shouldn't get Animal Growth before 14th level.

Ursus the Grim
2013-06-17, 03:16 AM
Two weeks and no response. Anyone? Is it really bad or just overwhelming?

LOTRfan
2013-06-17, 07:51 AM
I just saw this. I don't have much to say right now, as I have to log off in three minutes, but I'm very interested in seeing how this turns out. I'll be back later and read it all more carefully then. Just wanted to let you know that it isn't bad at all; I'd say the opposite, in fact.

Km0nk3y
2013-06-17, 02:26 PM
It all looks very similar to a class on the Pathfinder SRD:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/mammoth-rider

Its a prestige class (druid/barbarian based) that gains a few base combat abilities with a mount/companion that grows in size and strength with class levels. Enjoy!

Ursus the Grim
2013-06-24, 03:24 PM
It all looks very similar to a class on the Pathfinder SRD:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/mammoth-rider

Its a prestige class (druid/barbarian based) that gains a few base combat abilities with a mount/companion that grows in size and strength with class levels. Enjoy!

I don't agree with your assessment, with respect. They're only as similiar as a druid is to a paladin, really. The Mammoth Rider is a prestige class that mostly just stacks static bonuses onto the mount. The caller is a base class that provides a myriad of combat options and much more versatility than the Rider presents. The fluff is also wildly different.

Thank you for the insight, however.

Rabidmuskrat
2013-06-24, 06:16 PM
I rather like this. The abilities and how they function are quite original and interesting. Here is what I suggest with regard to the abilities. Take note that I have not looked at the battletitan's stats and am working solely on logic and the desire to make it provide something at every level. Comments included in the spoilers.

On second throught, don't take the levels too seriously. Rather consider the comments.

Level 1:
Wild Empathy w/ Int

The dino is a lynchpin for the entire class. Might as well be able to use it properly from the very start.

Level 2:
Spirit Link or whatever you want to call it.

New proposed ability, and as such is probably completely unbalanced (especially since I haven't looked at the battletitan's stats). If so, ignore it. I mostly wanted something to fill level 2.
One problem with such reliance on a big minion that there are now two links in the chain and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. That means that if either you or your minion has a weak save that can be exploited, both parties will probably end up dead. As such, I propose this ability.
Spirit Link (Su): As long as the Caller is within 5ft of his Titan, if either of them is required to make a save of any kind, they may use the highest appropriate save between the two of them. This means that if the Caller has a +5 fort save and the Titan has +10 and they must both save against poison, they both roll fortitude saves at +10.

Level 3:
Lashing Claws

I don't quite understand these bloodletter abilities. Are they only usable when the titan makes a successful attack? Regardless of the answer to that question, you are giving the Caller the ability to effectively cast 2 spells per round every round as long as he still has bloodletter abilities available. And then he still has access to some normal spellcasting for a bit of battlefield control...
Also, the damage on this ability is perhaps a bit on the high side. It is the same as an Orb of X spell, which is a level 4 spell, however its damage is untyped (physical) and therefore cannot be resisted. And you say you can cast this whenever your giant pet dino hits with an attack, without using an action?
Remember, at level 3 a wizard is only just getting spells like Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray and has a worse attack bonus for these touch attacks. May I suggest dropping the damage to 1d4 per level instead? I would also change the uses per day to something like 1/day per 3 levels. This would then provide a nice, staple blasting ability.
Wait a sec, do you ADD the wisdom mod to your level to determine the number of d6's? That is a metric assload of damage. Drop the wisdom modifier there and use it somewhere else, perhaps as a bonus to your attack roll instead (instead of dex)?

Level 4:
Lesser Unleash the Titan

Like Unleash the Titan but sends it into a normal rage instead. Just figured it was strange that the Caller could cause Greater Rage but not normal Rage. Usable 1/day per 4 levels, one less than a barbarian?

Level 5:
Channel the Titan

This ability is in a bit of an awkward place. At low levels, where the bonuses it gives are actually useful, your battletitan can still fit through every hallway you can. At higher level, the tiny bonuses aren't worth the risk that someone could come along and coup de grace your main class feature.
I do like what you are attempting to do with the ability, though. What I would suggest is a bonus that somehow scales with your battletitan instead and a limited number of uses per day. Something like a str, con and nat armour bonus equal 2 + 2 for every size category the battletitan is above medium and a few other bonuses based on level. Maybe a few natural attacks.

Level 6:
Living Cover

This ability is fine except for one tiny detail. You neglect to mention that it is the titan providing the cover! In theory, the titan can hide behind the caller to give both of them partial cover at once.
Just modify the ability so it is clear that any attack that misses due to the partial cover hits the titan instead.
Also, you should note that as soon as the titan becomes even just large, it becomes quite easy to fully hide behind it normally for full cover. Even a medium creature can naturally provide cover to another. The only thing this ability does is allow the titan to shield the caller even if it is on the wrong side of him.
I moved this ability up a level because you will only really start using it once your titan is tough enough to really take a hit or two and keep going.

Level 7:
Thrashing Tail

The damage seems reasonable, but I would put more scaling into the uses per day. 1/day per 6 levels sound reasonable?
If you want the damage dice to be more unique, consider perhaps something like 1d8/2 levels or something. Drop the damage over time, it is a pain in the ass to keep track of.
As for the trip attack, at what bonus are you tripping? What are the consequences of failing? What size class can you trip? Who does the tripping, if anyone? Do feats such as improved trip have any effect?

Level 8:
Borrow the Blood

Might as well give it here. At this point the titan should start having enough hp to make this usable while the caller is going to start needing that hp to stay alive in emergencies. No scaling necessary, the HD increase of the titan should handle that.

Level 9:
Mage of Motion

This only really becomes useful when the titan becomes large, which I assume is at level 10. But I suppose the bit of concentration should help.

Level 10:
Gnashing Maw

HOLY MOTHER OF DAMAGE BATMAN! This thing is, to put it bluntly, completely and ridiculously overpowered. Consider that at level 10 with a wisdom score of 18 (+4) you are doing 28d6 damage. That is an average damage of almost 100 (98), enough to pretty much instagib most CR 10 monsters. Oh, and it stuns.
Drop the damage to d6+1 per level or something, that should still make up for the fact that it can only be used 1/day. You can keep the stun if you want, but at that level most things are going to be immune anyway. Remember, anything with an attack roll (even a touch attack roll) has the potential to crit, so perhaps give it an increased crit range instead of the stun? At 19-20/x2 you still have the potential to really deal out the damage, but your dm will probably hate you for 1shotting his BBEG.

I'm going to stop here, getting tired. I will critique the rest of the abilities tomorrow.

Ursus the Grim
2013-06-24, 06:42 PM
Thank you so much for your feedback. I just wanted to clarify. The wisdom is added after the damage is dealt. So level ten maw would deal 20d6 damage, then added damage equal to the wisdom.

Gnorman
2013-06-24, 07:03 PM
For the record, most CR 10 enemies have more than 98 HP. The bebilith, the fire giant, the noble salamander, and the 11-headed hydra would all survive.

The rakshasa and the couatl would be instagibbed even on the 20d6 version, on average - they have 52 and 58 HP, respectively.

The difference between 20d6 and 28d6 here really only affects the clay golem, which would not survive the latter on average but would survive the former.

It's not a "ridiculously overpowered" ability (direct damage rarely is), but I would say that it is not properly scaled to the level at which it is available. And the addition of the damage based on wisdom modifier is, according to designer intention, basically an afterthought - you're adding on at most five damage to an ability that regularly deals seventy. Rather than having an extremely limited one-shot one-kill ability, why not have a less damaging one with more frequent use? I'd be more interested in the stunning portion of the ability than the damage - it seems it would be more tactically useful if it scaled with HD on a 1:1 ratio, but was usable 3/day. This would seem to put it in conflicting space with Lashing Claws, though. Perhaps, and I'm spitballing here, it deals a lesser amount of damage (perhaps even 1:2 with HD, so only 5d6 damage) but persists for multiple rounds. Say: 5d6 damage per round, for a number of rounds equal to Wisdom modifier. Each round, the creature must make a save or be stunned/immobilized. The battletitan's basically chewing on it.

A table would also help garner some feedback, and I'm worried that the class is significantly MAD.

Rabidmuskrat
2013-06-25, 03:41 AM
Eh, true. I didn't go check up on the actual hp totals. Still, it seems to me that 150 hp is approximately the high side of averages for CR 10 and if you can take out 1/2 of a CR 10 encounter with a single ability, that is a bit much. Remember, since it relies on an attack roll, it can still crit.

To put it in another way, a party of 4 callers at level 20 rolling average can take out half of an average Tarrasque as a free action (if their beasties hit). After damage reduction.

Or another way. Almost every creature this ability is used on (that is vulnerable to it) will have to save against massive damage or die, from the moment you get it. So yes, it is a save or die as well that ignores spell resistance. At least, nothing about spell resistance is mentioned.

I really like Gnorman's suggestion, you can focus on the stun and damage over time aspects. Alternatively, keep the high damage but make the conditions of use more stringent. It can only be used if the battletitan has succeeded on using a bite attack in a grapple or something.

Another idea is to allow the Caller to regain uses of these abilities in some way. Perhaps
Lashing Claws - Every time the battletitan lands a killing blow with an attack.
Thrashing Tail - Every time the battletitan confirms a critical hit.
Gnashing Jaws - Every time an enemy dies inside the stomache of the titan (due to swallow whole).

I would actually put this in instead of Secrets of Bloodletting and give it on level 3 or 4.

Ursus the Grim
2013-06-25, 09:22 AM
Level 2:
Spirit Link or whatever you want to call it.

New proposed ability, and as such is probably completely unbalanced (especially since I haven't looked at the battletitan's stats). If so, ignore it. I mostly wanted something to fill level 2.
One problem with such reliance on a big minion that there are now two links in the chain and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. That means that if either you or your minion has a weak save that can be exploited, both parties will probably end up dead. As such, I propose this ability.
Spirit Link (Su): As long as the Caller is within 5ft of his Titan, if either of them is required to make a save of any kind, they may use the highest appropriate save between the two of them. This means that if the Caller has a +5 fort save and the Titan has +10 and they must both save against poison, they both roll fortitude saves at +10.

I hesitate here. The Titan is going to have tremendous saves as a result of its HD. Fortitude in particular is going to end up obscene. I consider this fair for the Titan, as he's going to be a huge target and has few ways to boost them otherwise. For instance, the vanilla titan is cr 16 with 36 HD and saves of 29/22/15. I agree with the intention, however. Perhaps a circumstantial bonus instead of just using the higher bonus?


Level 3:
Lashing Claws

I don't quite understand these bloodletter abilities. Are they only usable when the titan makes a successful attack? Regardless of the answer to that question, you are giving the Caller the ability to effectively cast 2 spells per round every round as long as he still has bloodletter abilities available. And then he still has access to some normal spellcasting for a bit of battlefield control...

They can be used as a standard action, or tacked onto one of the titan's attacks. Spell limits still apply, though, and a Caller is going to go through his quite limited spell pool rather quickly if he casts them every time Secrets of Bloodletting triggers.

Also, the damage on this ability is perhaps a bit on the high side. It is the same as an Orb of X spell, which is a level 4 spell, however its damage is untyped (physical) and therefore cannot be resisted. And you say you can cast this whenever your giant pet dino hits with an attack, without using an action?

Tch, sorry. I was going to say that it deals damage as the corresponding natural weapon and is therefore subject to the common DR, but as a Spell-like ability, DR wouldn't apply by RAW. It warrants reinspection of damage.

The Bloodletter abilities are supposed to be along the lines of a more varied Eldritch Blast.

Also, as a note to myself, I'm probably going to drop Wisdom and replace it with Int somewhere.


Remember, at level 3 a wizard is only just getting spells like Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray and has a worse attack bonus for these touch attacks. May I suggest dropping the damage to 1d4 per level instead? I would also change the uses per day to something like 1/day per 3 levels. This would then provide a nice, staple blasting ability.

I'm trying to avoid comparisons to the core base classes, as that works under the assumption that core is balanced. With that said, I would argue that the Wizard at low levels is disproportionately weak. Some would argue that its to pay for them to be monsters at higher levels, but the point remains that low level spellcasters are little more than Xd4 HD with a crossbow and 1/day damage that matches the fighter for a round.

I'll see about scaling the usages, but I'd like to preserve the frequency to power ratio I've put there. Gnashing Maw is supposed to be a nova ability while the claws and tails are the workhorses. Disintegrate and Magic Missile, so to compare.


Level 7:
Thrashing Tail

The damage seems reasonable, but I would put more scaling into the uses per day. 1/day per 6 levels sound reasonable?
If you want the damage dice to be more unique, consider perhaps something like 1d8/2 levels or something. Drop the damage over time, it is a pain in the ass to keep track of.
As for the trip attack, at what bonus are you tripping? What are the consequences of failing? What size class can you trip? Who does the tripping, if anyone? Do feats such as improved trip have any effect?

Originally the bloodletter abilities were executed by the Titan until I changed them to be Eldritch Blasts. I'll make a note to clarify the trip bonuses.


Level 9:
Mage of Motion

This only really becomes useful when the titan becomes large, which I assume is at level 10. But I suppose the bit of concentration should help.


Assuming a medium-sized caller, though. Halfling and gnome, for instance, could use it earlier, to say nothing of more exotic race choices.


Level 10:
Gnashing Maw

HOLY MOTHER OF DAMAGE BATMAN! This thing is, to put it bluntly, completely and ridiculously overpowered. Consider that at level 10 with a wisdom score of 18 (+4) you are doing 28d6 damage. That is an average damage of almost 100 (98), enough to pretty much instagib most CR 10 monsters. Oh, and it stuns.
Drop the damage to d6+1 per level or something, that should still make up for the fact that it can only be used 1/day. You can keep the stun if you want, but at that level most things are going to be immune anyway. Remember, anything with an attack roll (even a touch attack roll) has the potential to crit, so perhaps give it an increased crit range instead of the stun? At 19-20/x2 you still have the potential to really deal out the damage, but your dm will probably hate you for 1shotting his BBEG.

This seems to be the hot-button Bloodletter, so be assured I'm giving it considerable review.


It's not a "ridiculously overpowered" ability (direct damage rarely is), but I would say that it is not properly scaled to the level at which it is available. And the addition of the damage based on wisdom modifier is, according to designer intention, basically an afterthought - you're adding on at most five damage to an ability that regularly deals seventy.

Entirely true.


Perhaps, and I'm spitballing here, it deals a lesser amount of damage (perhaps even 1:2 with HD, so only 5d6 damage) but persists for multiple rounds. Say: 5d6 damage per round, for a number of rounds equal to Wisdom modifier. Each round, the creature must make a save or be stunned/immobilized. The battletitan's basically chewing on it.

Hm. Interesting. The DoT was supposed to be the tail's schtick, of course, but its different enough. Being a technically magical ability, I wouldn't have to worry as much about relative sizes for immobilization either, I think.


A table would also help garner some feedback, and I'm worried that the class is significantly MAD.

I hesitated to table it up because it puts a 'finished' stamp on things, and I'm far from it. After figuring out the Caller's abilities, I'll put up the Titan's progression and abilities for review and probably assemble the table after that.


Eh, true. I didn't go check up on the actual hp totals. Still, it seems to me that 150 hp is approximately the high side of averages for CR 10 and if you can take out 1/2 of a CR 10 encounter with a single ability, that is a bit much. Remember, since it relies on an attack roll, it can still crit.

Or another way. Almost every creature this ability is used on (that is vulnerable to it) will have to save against massive damage or die, from the moment you get it. So yes, it is a save or die as well that ignores spell resistance. At least, nothing about spell resistance is mentioned.

I really like Gnorman's suggestion, you can focus on the stun and damage over time aspects. Alternatively, keep the high damage but make the conditions of use more stringent. It can only be used if the battletitan has succeeded on using a bite attack in a grapple or something.

Another idea is to allow the Caller to regain uses of these abilities in some way. Perhaps
Lashing Claws - Every time the battletitan lands a killing blow with an attack.
Thrashing Tail - Every time the battletitan confirms a critical hit.
Gnashing Jaws - Every time an enemy dies inside the stomache of the titan (due to swallow whole).

I would actually put this in instead of Secrets of Bloodletting and give it on level 3 or 4.

Considering all the changes listed here. Changing Secrets also nulls one of your complaints as such.

Also, while I can't post the Titan in its entirety, I'm going to list a few vague piles of numbers from which you can extrapolate its general scope.

36 HD Huge Animal CR 16
+20 Natural Armor
42/11/29/2/13/16