Ranger variant question

[ISitOnGnomes]

I'm starting a Gestalt campaign and have a player thar wants to go DN/Ranger. For obvious reasons he's trying to ACF away the nature aspects to leave him with more of an elite tracker/bounty hunter feel.

He was wondering if he could remove his animal companion and wild empathy and replace it with UMD and maybe a couple extra skill points. At first glance I thought this would be more than adequate and maybe he should even get some other class skills, but UMD is a bit more than a normal skill and DN do have high CHA. Does this sound like a valid trade? Should I possibly give him more or even less in exchange for a major class feature?

[Scow2]

If it sounds right to you, go for it. Don't feel bound by the books.

[ISitOnGnomes]

The problem is the reasonable person in me says that should be fine, and the powergamer in me says trading a few HD of wolves for the power to potentially use any magic item in the game seems a bit unbalanced. Hence why I asked the playground, to see if you guys may have some insights.

Basically would UMD be equivalent to animal companion in your opinion.

[Waker]

UMD is a useful skill, make no mistake, but it isn't some tremendously unbalanced source of power. There are any number of ways he could get the skill even if you didn't make it a class skill. Not to mention that unlike true spellcasting, he needs to have the appropriate item to make use of the skill. Trading away his companion and empathy is fine for a skill and a few extra points.
Alternatively if he is trying to focus more on being a tracker/bounty hunter without the nature theme, he might consider the scout as well. Or even the Swift Hunter feat if he likes both.

[ISitOnGnomes]

That's along the lines I was thinking. I'll suggest he have a look at scout and see if that fits his concept better.

[Coidzor]

I'm starting a Gestalt campaign and have a player thar wants to go DN/Ranger. For obvious reasons he's trying to ACF away the nature aspects to leave him with more of an elite tracker/bounty hunter feel.

He was wondering if he could remove his animal companion and wild empathy and replace it with UMD and maybe a couple extra skill points. At first glance I thought this would be more than adequate and maybe he should even get some other class skills, but UMD is a bit more than a normal skill and DN do have high CHA. Does this sound like a valid trade? Should I possibly give him more or even less in exchange for a major class feature?

They're not great class features for a ranger, but they're certainly worth more than a new class skill. Probably worth more than 2 skill points per level too.

Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) might be of more interest to him though.

[Waker]

They're not great class features for a ranger, but they're certainly worth more than a new class skill. Probably worth more than 2 skill points per level too.

Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) might be of more interest to him though.

Going along that train of thought, you could consider tweaking other ACFs that are available to fit more with the theme he had going for him.
Spiritual Connection (CC)- Could tweak that from granting Speak With Plants/Animals to Speak with Dead and Spirit Sense (HoH). Instead of being buddy buddy with nature, he instead has a creepy ectomancer vibe going for him. Reinforced further if you use...
Spiritual Guide- Replace Handle animal with Gather Information and Knowledge (Nature) with (Religion).

[Coidzor]

Going along that train of thought, you could consider tweaking other ACFs that are available to fit more with the theme he had going for him.
Spiritual Connection (CC)- Could tweak that from granting Speak With Plants/Animals to Speak with Dead and Spirit Sense (HoH). Instead of being buddy buddy with nature, he instead has a creepy ectomancer vibe going for him. Reinforced further if you use...
Spiritual Guide- Replace Handle animal with Gather Information and Knowledge (Nature) with (Religion).

I'm sure there's also some ideas that could be had by looking at pathfinder archetypes, though I don't think there's one that's so narrow in focus as to be an undead hunter.


The problem is the reasonable person in me says that should be fine, and the powergamer in me says trading a few HD of wolves for the power to potentially use any magic item in the game seems a bit unbalanced. Hence why I asked the playground, to see if you guys may have some insights.

Basically would UMD be equivalent to animal companion in your opinion.

UMD is weaker than a druid's animal companion. You can both get UMD as a class skill and a weaker version of an animal companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) for a feat.

UMD can do things that are stronger than a ranger's animal companion, but that's not the skill alone. That's also a hefty investment of gold and other resources. And you're still pretending to be a worse primary spellcaster while you're at it, generally. The ranger's animal companion is underpowered anyway, and many figure that it should have gotten the full strength companion if druid should have gotten one at all.

Also, 3.5 animal companion is a singular creature and it's not a class feature but a spell in 3.0 "Animal Friendship."

[ISitOnGnomes]

I've decided to give him his choice of 3 skills off the rogue skill list, +2 extra skill points as well as altering a couple things to feel better with the theme. Thanks for your advice. I foresee my return with more conundrums needing everyone's assistance. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

I've decided to give him his choice of 3 skills off the rogue skill list, +2 extra skill points as well as altering a couple things to feel better with the theme. Thanks for your advice. I foresee my return with more conundrums needing everyone's assistance. :smallbiggrin:

Good luck to you all.