3.5 Runecaster - Permanent runes and other questions.

[Jallis370]

If the rune has the permanent attribute assigned to it, this does not mean that the spell itself is permanent upon activation? If I am able I want to have Owl's Wisdom permanent on my Cleric. This way I get the benefit from Owl's Wisdom when it comes to spells per day and bonus spells, which would not be possible with a regular Periapt of Wisdom if I'm not mistaken? (Since the increased wisdom only increases the dc of spells cast and small stuff like that).
But if the permanency only means that the rune itself never runs out it would just count as a Periapt of Wisdom if I had it activate on myself in a permanent way?
I've been giddy about the Permanency for many weeks until it hit me today that the permanency isn't that powerful (although it is still purty powerful indeed).

I just need to confirm that my increased spells per day dream has been shattered.

Now, on another note, my Cleric is a gemcutter and I've been playing with the possibility of lining all my runes on my sleeve and activate them all just by clancing over them. But I may be in error in thinking this would be possible as the rules say there can only be one rune per medium item or smaller, meaning that, even if the gems I'll use are smaller and could fit on my sleeve, the sleeve in itself counts as my medium sized armor on which I'm only allowed to fit one rune.

I'm trying to be fair here. How much slack I get from there is up to my DM.

PS. I have seen the "please abuse this" thread about the runecaster, but seen as the people throwing suggestions constantly mention arcane spells... Well, I thought it would be better to make a new thread with focus on fairness around the rules.

[TuggyNE]

I just need to confirm that my increased spells per day dream has been shattered.

You're probably right about Runecaster, although I don't know for sure, but you're definitely right that you wouldn't get bonus spells per day. The reason is in the text of the spell; it specifically does not grant bonus spells while it's on, no matter what you do with it or how long it lasts.

Periapts of wisdom, though made with the spell as a prerequisite, function differently enough to avoid that problem, and lack the specific text.

[Jallis370]

After some research I find that I am indeed in error on both areas when it comes to Owl's Wisdom (I never actually read the description for the spells due to never preparing and casting them) and the Periapt of Wisdom (which, contrary to my belief actually does grant spells after a night's sleep). Altough I would argue that a permanent Owl's Wisdom would defeat the wording of the spell since it's probably meant to prevent players from thinking they get more spells the moment their ability is increased.

I also found rumors about an example runecaster npc in a forgotten realms book that had a necklace full of runes, making my sleeve idea more than plausible. But I think just having a bunch of runes activated when I am present, or by speech, in my pockets could be a better option as they could easily protected that way.

[TuggyNE]

Altough I would argue that a permanent Owl's Wisdom would defeat the wording of the spell since it's probably meant to prevent players from thinking they get more spells the moment their ability is increased.

That would be a perfectly reasonable houserule (and probably one I'd go with, if I allowed extremely long-duration owl's wisdom castings), but the strict RAW doesn't give the exact rationale, so it's not automatic.

[Saintheart]

If the rune has the permanent attribute assigned to it, this does not mean that the spell itself is permanent upon activation? If I am able I want to have Owl's Wisdom permanent on my Cleric. This way I get the benefit from Owl's Wisdom when it comes to spells per day and bonus spells, which would not be possible with a regular Periapt of Wisdom if I'm not mistaken? (Since the increased wisdom only increases the dc of spells cast and small stuff like that).
But if the permanency only means that the rune itself never runs out it would just count as a Periapt of Wisdom if I had it activate on myself in a permanent way?
I've been giddy about the Permanency for many weeks until it hit me today that the permanency isn't that powerful (although it is still purty powerful indeed).

I just need to confirm that my increased spells per day dream has been shattered.

You don't necessarily need Permanency to abuse it, though it's not going to give you permanent Owl's Wisdom. A rock with a rune that's touch activated is just as gamebreaking unless you're paranoid that you'll need that extra +4 to WIS for a badger jumping you during your morning ablutions. Touch the rock once, new iteration of spell. So touch it once every 10 minutes or so.


Now, on another note, my Cleric is a gemcutter and I've been playing with the possibility of lining all my runes on my sleeve and activate them all just by clancing over them. But I may be in error in thinking this would be possible as the rules say there can only be one rune per medium item or smaller, meaning that, even if the gems I'll use are smaller and could fit on my sleeve, the sleeve in itself counts as my medium sized armor on which I'm only allowed to fit one rune.

I'm trying to be fair here. How much slack I get from there is up to my DM.

Ioun stones, grey ones in particular for 25 gp each, as the "Please abuse this" thread points out. You can have six of them orbiting your head at any given moment. There is nothing by RAW that says a rune can't be carved on each and every one of them; each is a separate item and as you'd know the Inscribe Rune feat allows gemcutting as the qualifying skill. They have hitpoints and AC, but the rulebook is silent on whether it takes a standard action or a free action to reach out and grab one, thus activating it by touch. Or like I said in that thread you could try and make yours activate by reading or studying it and thus being a "study-activated" rune.

The "no arcane spell" issue also isn't that big a problem with a few levels in Archivist or Divine Magician ACF options.

[Psyren]

I would rule that trying to study a specific symbol that is orbiting your head, to say nothing of the other 3-5 that you are trying not to read at the same time, should take at least a standard. But as far as getting multiple runes within eyeshot that are visible and don't take up body slots, the ioun stone is a good idea.

[Jallis370]

I don't know if ion stones counts as gems when using gemcutting as a crafting skill. Besides, a rune set to activate on myself would activate without me having to do anything.
That is, if "works when passed" could mean it activates as long as I am within 30ft of it and keeps reactivating.

Could it be possible to have a rune activate "when passed" directly in front of it, essentially making it a gun when pointing it at enemies? Or a ranged heal :D

[Saintheart]

You'd see from the "Please abuse this" thread that I argued an ioun stone is permanently passing around your head, so you might be said to be permanently "passing" the rock.

Psyren's balance suggestion is a nice one. On the other hand, IIRC the wording on Rune Magic says that "any attempt to study" the rune -- whether successful or not -- can trigger it if it's set to the "read" condition for activation. So in theory all you have to do is glance at the ioun stone and the rune activates -- even if you fail to read the rune because the stone is moving too fast.

The point about gemcutting is more to illustrate that tiny, even dimunitive, objects can hold a single rune, since Inscribe Rune itself has prereqs which include gemcutting; the upper limits are defined ("No single rune less than 25 feet away from another") but the lower is not ("A Medium-sized object or less can hold only one rune.")

Other ways to get around the issue are to inscribe the rune on your weapon, or on the rim or back of your shield. Glance at your weapon, the rune triggers. :smallcool:

Ranged inflict/cure spells are a possibility, since IIRC you can inscribe runes with metamagic feats attached -- Reach Spell being the operative one. And runes can trigger on alignment/race and so on, so you could theoretically do it. It'd probably be an expensive rune, though.

[Jallis370]

You'd see from the "Please abuse this" thread that I argued an ioun stone is permanently passing around your head, so you might be said to be permanently "passing" the rock.

Psyren's balance suggestion is a nice one. On the other hand, IIRC the wording on Rune Magic says that "any attempt to study" the rune -- whether successful or not -- can trigger it if it's set to the "read" condition for activation. So in theory all you have to do is glance at the ioun stone and the rune activates -- even if you fail to read the rune because the stone is moving too fast.

But passing would not be the case when the rune is in your pocket, even if the rune is set to activate when near you?

How long should glancing at an object take when a rune takes a standard action to activate? Does the read-addition make the rune faster to activate?


The point about gemcutting is more to illustrate that tiny, even dimunitive, objects can hold a single rune, since Inscribe Rune itself has prereqs which include gemcutting; the upper limits are defined ("No single rune less than 25 feet away from another") but the lower is not ("A Medium-sized object or less can hold only one rune.")

My point was that while one rune on a medium sized object is a limit, having smaller runed objects fastened to that same object should then not be possible, even though the runes aren't directly on the medium object?


Other ways to get around the issue are to inscribe the rune on your weapon, or on the rim or back of your shield. Glance at your weapon, the rune triggers.

What about fastening runed gems on the weapon or shield? Would that exeed the medium-sized limit?



Ranged inflict/cure spells are a possibility, since IIRC you can inscribe runes with metamagic feats attached -- Reach Spell being the operative one. And runes can trigger on alignment/race and so on, so you could theoretically do it. It'd probably be an expensive rune, though.

Actually this time I was abusing the rules, as the rune can activate in a radius of 30ft, essentially making a heal rune ranged without any metamagic by having it activate on passing or reading. Is that fair? Or should it only activate on touch since it is a touch spell..?

I may be repeating myself here, but I just want to make sure I get everything around these issues.