Sorcerer Prestige classes (3.5)

[Katana1515]

Hey there!

One thing that has always bothered me about the Sorcerer is that their is no point staying in the class past level 1. their are no class features at all (unlike the wizards bonus feats). Anyway this means that there is no reason not to jump into a prestige class as soon as possible (as long as you don't lose caster levels).

So I thought I would ask people to list your favourite prestige classes for the sorcerer. Not necessarily the most powerful or game breaking (though they are also welcome) more fluff based ones are welcome too.

The rules are simple, must be 3.5 and WoTC, no home-brew or third party please. Apart from that the only limit is that it has to have either full caster progression or lose no more than 1 level at most.

I will get the ball rolling :)

Fatespinner levels 1-4 from Complete Arcane.
Love the fluff based aspects of messing with peoples luck and it gains a fun/useful ability at every level. (wouldn't bother with the capstone, its not worth a caster level)

Thanks in advance

[Talya]

Heartwarder (Faiths & Pantheons. in addition to other class features, +5 inherent bonus to charisma over 10 levels. Full caster progression, brutal entrance requirements.)

Shadowcraft Mage (because...killerngnome is killer.)

Mage of the Arcane Order (yay for spontaneously casting spells you don't know.)

Incantatrix (which is as brokenly good for sorcerers as any other caster)

[Diovid]

I'm really liking the fluff of sorcerers getting their powers from draconic ancestors so I may be a bit biased but I really like the Dragonheart Mage and Dracolexi as prestige classes for the sorcerer (both are from Races of the Dragon), especially when taking the 1st dragonblood sorcerer substitution level (also from Races of the Dragon).

[Valwyn]

You lose a level and can't qualify until you have 5th level spells, but Argent Savant from Complete Arcane can be fun if you want to specialize in the Force effects. Bonus to attack and damage rolls, free Extend Spell on your force spells (Shield, Mage Armor, and Wall of Force, etc), and the ability to make Force effects blow up. I'm not sure whether you need to actually cast a Dispel Magic or not. The wording says: "As a standard action, she can attempt to dispel a single force spell or effect within 60 feet (even those normally immune to dispel magic, such as wall of force)."

Fiendblooded is also fun fluff-wise and you get bonus spells known (from any class) as long as they are Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy or Fire. Hello, Silence, Deathward, and Harm. :smallbiggrin: Sadly, you need ranks in Knowledge (the planes), so you'll have to buy them cross-class, muticlass, take Knowledge Devotion, or take a Planar Substitution level (Planar Handbook). You lose a caster level at the capstone, but you don't have to take it.

Sandshaper has tough requirements for a sorcerer, and you lose a caster level at levels 1 and 9, but you get a ton of free spells (including Animal's Attribute and Dispel Magic) and a few fun abilities. It gets a bit nerfed outside deserts, but it can be fixed if you can afford to carry 15 lbs of sand with you.

Hope this helps.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think built a cool force sorcerer as Sorcerer 5 / Magic Missile Mage 5 / Abjurent Champion 5 / Argent Savant 5.

[Katana1515]

Fiendblooded is also fun fluff-wise and you get bonus spells known (from any class) as long as they are Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy or Fire. Hello, Silence, Deathward, and Harm. Sadly, you need ranks in Knowledge (the planes), so you'll have to buy them cross-class, muticlass, take Knowledge Devotion, or take a Planar Substitution level (Planar Handbook). You lose a caster level at the capstone, but you don't have to take it.

Thanks for reminding me about that class :) ! LVL 15 Fiendblooded Sorcerer BBEG now under construction! Arcane casters make some of the best villains and if i get to throw in a pack of fiends or 2 too even better!

[Vortenger]

another one that may be worth mentioning is the Celestial Mystic from BOED. gives up 1 CL for a slew of abilities. always on Magic Circle vs. Evil, a fast healing aura, and the ability to turn catrips into 4d6 no SR rays are some of the fun ones. defensive abilities are even better. prereq's aren't terrible.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Wild Mage is my favorite. It has fun abilities and doesn't lose caster levels. It also suits sorcerers more fluff-wise than wizards.

[Waker]

Mage of the Arcane Order for increasing the spells "known" by the Sorcerer. Great for utility type spells that you wouldn't want to occupy a spell known.
War Weaver for increasing the power of buffing and giving good action economy.

[Thurbane]

Fiendblooded is also fun fluff-wise and you get bonus spells known (from any class) as long as they are Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy or Fire. Hello, Silence, Deathward, and Harm. :smallbiggrin: Sadly, you need ranks in Knowledge (the planes), so you'll have to buy them cross-class, muticlass, take Knowledge Devotion, or take a Planar Substitution level (Planar Handbook). You lose a caster level at the capstone, but you don't have to take it.
I'm going to second this.

Also, you could do a 1 level dip into Binder (or take the binding feats) and take Anima Mage - full casting progression. No reason you couldn't combine it with levels of Fiend Blooded too - it may actually make the skill reqs easier.

If you are human, Human Paragon isn't bad for three levels - costs you a level of casting, but adds a lot of skill versatility, gives a bonus feat, bonus weapon proficiency and a +2 stat boost.

Ruathar only requires the ability to cast 3rd level spells, and perform a service to help an elf. Full casting progression, decent skill list, bonus weapon proficiency and some other small bonuses.

[Khedrac]

One of the Abyssal Heritor feats from Fiendish Codex I gives Know. Planes as a class skill and can be taken at level 1 if you are Chaotic - another way to get the skill ranks as class skill ranks for Fiend-Blooded.

Also for Fiend-Blooded a Warmage - the extra spells remove some of the weaknesses of the class...

[DarkEternal]

I second Sand Shaper. One of the biggest weaknesses a sorcerer has when compared to wizard is the lack of utility since he chooses his spells in advance. While Sand Shaper won't fix this outright, it will add a boatload of spells to your spell lisst that will certainly add much to your utility. I also like the fluff of the classl itself, and you get nice class features. The requirement feat you need to enter is pretty bad, but far off from the worst you can take.

[Asrrin]

Archmage is pretty fun even if you can't qualify for it until level 14. the SLA's you can pick up are good because you can swap out the spell you knew for another one, and still keep the SLA. And since Sorcs have plenty of spells/day, sacrificing slots for the class abilities is easy.

Also Arcane Fire with that many spells slots is beastly.

[Gerrtt]

Can anyone comment on how the sorcerer gets into a prestige class as early as level 2? The OP mentions not staying pure sorcerer past level 1, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on the late train here.

[Asrrin]

Can anyone comment on how the sorcerer gets into a prestige class as early as level 2? The OP mentions not staying pure sorcerer past level 1, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on the late train here.

Venerable Dragonwought Kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage and Loredrake to have CL3 at leavel 1 and a boat load of skill points, and then early entry level cheese with your standard Precocious Apprentice, Practiced Spellcaster, Sanctum Spell, ect.

[Talya]

Venerable Dragonwought Kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage and Loredrake to have CL3 at leavel 1 and a boat load of skill points, and then early entry level cheese with your standard Precocious Apprentice, Practiced Spellcaster, Sanctum Spell, ect.

Yeah, any ways for the 99.999% of sorcerers who don't want to play a monster-race?

[Fouredged Sword]

Versatile spellcaster and heighten spell can get you casting 2nd level spells at level 1.

Then you can get into a class that has no skill reqs and requires level 2 spells. Not sure there is one though...

[Karnith]

Can anyone comment on how the sorcerer gets into a prestige class as early as level 2? The OP mentions not staying pure sorcerer past level 1, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on the late train here.
Cheese aside, I believe that the intent behind the statement was that level one is the last sorcerer level that offers anything but spellcasting, so that there is no incentive to go straight sorcerer when you have the opportunity to PrC, not that level 1 is the general break-point from the class. You just want to get out as soon as you can, because the class has nothing to offer you that you can't get better elsewhere.

[Gerrtt]

Cheese aside, I believe that the intent behind the statement was that level one is the last sorcerer level that offers anything but spellcasting, so that there is no incentive to go straight sorcerer when you have the opportunity to PrC, not that level 1 is the general break-point from the class. You just want to get out as soon as you can, because the class has nothing to offer you that you can't get better elsewhere.

I definitely agree, no reason to stick around there. Just wasn't sure how to do it at level 2.

[Asrrin]

Yeah, any ways for the 99.999% of sorcerers who don't want to play a monster-race?

Force Missile Mage was Concentration and Spellcraft reqs of 9, plus casting Magic Missile. Maybe using an Item Familiar you could pump your skills up to that by level 2?

Also, Wild Mage has skill reqs at 5 ranks, and with above cheese to get 2nd levels spells at level 2 you can get into it as well.

[Karnith]

I definitely agree, no reason to stick around there. Just wasn't sure how to do it at level 2.
Racial paragon classes? Albeit they're generally pretty poor choices for a sorcerer.

[Chronos]

Qualifying for Anima Mage via the binding feats is rather iffy, RAW-wise, but you can definitely do it with only a single level of Binder. The metamagic and extra spell abilities you get from the class are by themselves nearly enough to make up for that lost level, and then you get binding as an 11th-level binder (with vestiges available as 13th) on top of that.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Force Missile Mage was Concentration and Spellcraft reqs of 9, plus casting Magic Missile. Maybe using an Item Familiar you could pump your skills up to that by level 2?

Also, Wild Mage has skill reqs at 5 ranks, and with above cheese to get 2nd levels spells at level 2 you can get into it as well.

I think you are missing that prestige classes have skill rank prerequisites not skill bonus prerequisites. you can't have more than lv+3 ranks in any given skill. Also, Wild Mage has a prereq of 8 ranks in spellcraft.

[Talya]

Qualifying for Anima Mage via the binding feats is rather iffy, RAW-wise, but you can definitely do it with only a single level of Binder. The metamagic and extra spell abilities you get from the class are by themselves nearly enough to make up for that lost level, and then you get binding as an 11th-level binder (with vestiges available as 13th) on top of that.

Yeah, although... speaking as someone who prefers the flavor of sorcerer, Anima Mage for me just seems far more appropriate to wizards. (despite the charisma synergy for sorcerers.)

[Urpriest]

Yeah, any ways for the 99.999% of sorcerers who don't want to play a monster-race?

Really, 99.999% of sorcerors want to play humans?

[Maginomicon]

Really, 99.999% of sorcerors want to play humans?
Point, but I think the sentiment there was that generally-speaking we don't want to play as something we'd usually be trying to kill.

[Tragak]

Point, but I think the sentiment there was that generally-speaking we don't want to play as something we'd usually be trying to kill. Are you saying that D&D characters aren't generally trying to kill others to defend themselves, but just for "being different"? Because that seems to be a quick way for the thread to devolve into trolling and counter-flaming.

[RFLS]

I think built a cool force sorcerer as Sorcerer 5 / Magic Missile Mage 5 / Abjurent Champion 5 / Argent Savant 5.

Given your name, I think you meant Fourcerer.


Are you saying that D&D characters aren't generally trying to kill others to defend themselves, but just for "being different"? Because that seems to be a quick way for the thread to devolve into trolling and counter-flaming.

I mean....yes, pretty much. A majority of games involve killing that guy because he's green, or that guy because he's got scales. The better ones will justify it somehow, but let's face it: you're more likely to kill a non-metahuman than a metahuman when you're playing in a fantasy world.

[Maginomicon]

Are you saying that D&D characters aren't generally trying to kill others to defend themselves, but just for "being different"? Because that seems to be a quick way for the thread to devolve into trolling and counter-flaming.Not sure if deliberately trying to invoke an internet law, or just being sarcastic. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/futurama-fry-not-sure-if-x)

Either way, that hadn't actually occurred to me.

No player I've ever known besides myself has ever played as a race that also has a creature entry in the monster manual. A large chunk of them don't even know level adjustments are a thing.

[Tragak]

I mean....yes, pretty much. A majority of games involve killing that guy because he's green, or that guy because he's got scales. The better ones will justify it somehow, but let's face it: you're more likely to kill a non-metahuman than a metahuman when you're playing in a fantasy world. Because DMs are more likely to give you human-ish allies and non-human enemies than the other way around?

[Chronos]

Maginomicon, you do know that elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes all have entries in the Monster Manual, right? And in previous editions, humans did too.

[Thurbane]

Qualifying for Anima Mage via the binding feats is rather iffy, RAW-wise, but you can definitely do it with only a single level of Binder. The metamagic and extra spell abilities you get from the class are by themselves nearly enough to make up for that lost level, and then you get binding as an 11th-level binder (with vestiges available as 13th) on top of that.
I can't see anything iffy about it - the poorly/openly worded reqs for Anima Mage make it pretty ironclad. Definitely not RAI in my honest opinion, and fairly cheesy, but RAW nonetheless. I took some convincing initially too.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The iffy bit comes from a sentence from a couple books that say you lose the benefits of a prestige class if you no longer qualify for it. I think it's in one of the complete books. Anima mage's +1 soul binding give you level one soul binding and prevents you from benefiting from the Bind Vestage feat line so you can no longer bind 2nd level vestiges.

However if you take the Improved Binding feat at that same level then you are, i think, indisputably fine by RAW.

Edit: found it in complete arcane
Should a character find herself in a position (because of changed alignment, lost levels, or the like) where she no longer meets the requirements of a prestige class, she loses all special abilities (but not Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or base save bonus) gained from levels of the prestige class.
the debate centers around whether this applies to all prestige classes or just the books that have this statement.

[TypoNinja]

Versatile spellcaster and heighten spell can get you casting 2nd level spells at level 1.

Then you can get into a class that has no skill reqs and requires level 2 spells. Not sure there is one though...

Precocious Apprentice gets you s second level spell for 1 feat, and you get to keep the extra second level spell slot after you level up high enough to get 2nd level magic. Better option.

I'm a big fan of DemonWrecker for any caster, short 5 level PRC, easy prerequisites, and the level 3 power is half all your spell damage becomes untyped, and the level 5 power is you automatically overcome the SR of Chaotic Evil Outsiders. Granted the Divine version is better than the Arcane one is my opinion, but in my experience Demons are a disgustingly common late game enemy, and whats not to like about half of all spell damage untyped?

[Khedrac]

I'm a big fan of DemonWrecker for any caster, short 5 level PRC, easy prerequisites...Not a class I recognise - could you let us know where this is from please?

[TypoNinja]

Not a class I recognise - could you let us know where this is from please?

Expedition to the DemonWeb Pits adventure book, I think wizards also gave a run down (But not full game information) for it on a web update.

The Divine version is amazing in my opinion. Full casting, half damage untyped, no SR vs Chaotic Evil outsiders, and you and all your allies within 30 feet have their weapons and natural attacks treated as good aligned and cold iron.

It's also got an arcane version, and guidelines for making a Devil Wrecker if you desire.

The arcane version inst quite as amazing, you trade the weapon aura for spell smite, which is less useful than the party buff in my opinion, but still a respectable PrC. Which gets upgraded to outright amazing if you fight a lot of demons.

[genericwit]

See if your DM can let you port over the Dragon Disciple from pathfinder [Replace blood of the dragon with Draconic Claws and bloodline feats with bonus feats from the list, maybe make the requirements knowledge arcana 8 and require 2nd level spells], pick up 8 levels. Nets you: +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int +2 natural armor, 8d6 breath weapon 1/day, medium BAB, good fort and will, d12 HD, 3 bonus feats, and only a loss of 2 spellcasting levels. Very good for gishy sorcs.

Sorc 5/DD8/Abj Champion 5/Sorc 2 nets you BAB 16, CL 18, 9th level spells, and all the aforementioned goodies.

[Vortenger]

TypoNinja, I'd never heard of that class before. Thanks! Unless you're fighting outsiders a lot, I don't see how its that good, though. Pretty situational. In the right campaign, like the latter part of Savage Tides... (We're sailing down the River Styx now.Telling our Eldritch Theurge about that, ASAP. Awesome.)

[TypoNinja]

TypoNinja, I'd never heard of that class before. Thanks! Unless you're fighting outsiders a lot, I don't see how its that good, though. Pretty situational. In the right campaign, like the latter part of Savage Tides... (We're sailing down the River Styx now.Telling our Eldritch Theurge about that, ASAP. Awesome.)

Its kind of situational, but its full casting, an you can qualify at 5th level while finishing it at 10th, in good time to make it into a 10th level Prc. My last use of it was Cleric 5/Demon wrecker 5/Contemplative X.

Its kind of situational true, it really really shines if you are fighting a lot of demons, but its powers are somewhat useful in other situations, Good still works on Devils, Cold Iron for the fey, and half untyped spell damage is always handy.

But in my opinion its a great class because its a 5 level PrC you can get into from 5th so its really really easy to shoehorn it into builds that didn't plan on a PrC until 10th. Its abilities are situational, but class abilities that come up sometimes are better than the no class features pure cleric would have given you if you have no other 5th level PrC planned.