Sutra Magic - (3.5 - PF based, but not PF)

[Talya]

So I got my hands on this "Rite Publishing" little ebook called Sutra Magic, part of the Jade Oath line for pathfinder. It looks quite compatible with all of 3.5, though.

In a nutshell the book allows you to add some pseudospellcasting to just about any class (although it's better with monks and divine spellcasters) with a single feat. This spellcasting is somewhat limited, using "Sutras" (sacred stories), that run from 1st to 9th level just like other spells. They are completely wisdom based. Your caster level is full for all divine spellcasters and monks. Sutras themselves increase in spell level based on the level of the caster, on the same schedule as any prepared full spellcaster. (So a 5th level monk casts sutras as 3rd level spells, for example.) They can cast a number of sutras per day equal to their wisdom bonus, +1 for every four levels in a sutra casting class (monk + divine casters). Spell DCs are 10+effective spell level+wisdom. (although paladins can replace wisdom with charisma for all purposes, I think.) You can know a number of sutras equal to your unenhanced wisdom modifier times two, or 1/2 your sutra caster level (rounded up), whichever is lower.

I was looking through this book, and thinking, "Damn. I need to add this to all my 3.5 games," with a certain changes:

Druids and Clerics don't qualify, period. Monks, Rangers and Paladins get it automatically.

[Talya]

Oh neat, the basics are in the PFSRD.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/sutra-magic

[Larkas]

Hey, that sounds awesome! I love these options to add spellcasting to any class, such as rituals, the homebrewed Skyrim-based shouts, BESM's Dynamic Sorcery and now this sutra magic! They really add to the game and can address balance issues quite well! In this case, I just think I'd add another feat to increase any character's CL to full, but I'd have to see the spells too. How do they add up?

[Coidzor]

Looks pretty interesting. I'm still trying to digest it though, I must admit.

[dysprosium]

Looks exactly like what Miroku (from Inuyasha) throws at demons.

Really cool!

[Larkas]

One question, Talya. Does the book provide more examples of sutras? The ones in the d20PFSRD show promise, but are too few to form an informed opinion.


Looks exactly like what Miroku (from Inuyasha) throws at demons.

Really cool!

Or what Shao Ran from Cardcaptor Sakura uses. Or what binds Munaks and Bonguns in Ragnarok Online. It's a pretty common theme in Asiatic legends, actually.

[Talya]

One question, Talya. Does the book provide more examples of sutras? The ones in the d20PFSRD show promise, but are too few to form an informed opinion.


There are only the 21 sutras in the book. There are guidelines for making more, but there are only 21 to start with. Still, no character will ever know even half the existing Sutras...

[DMVerdandi]

Hehe.
Sutras=Scrolls.

An alternative is giving everyone UMD in a setting.
Fluffing it so that magic items can be used by all quite easily, but INTERNAL magic is only used by mages.

[Larkas]

There are only the 21 sutras in the book. There are guidelines for making more, but there are only 21 to start with. Still, no character will ever know even half the existing Sutras...

The same as the 21 in the SRD, then. True... But still, it would be nice if they at least made some 40 of them, just to give more options to choose from. Specially when one of the sutras is almost strictly inferior to another (both Fiery Pearls), bringing the count down to 20... Anyways, publication issues aside, I really like the subsystem. I'd tweak it a little (such as make a feat allowing non-evil fey and goblinoids to use the system, even if at a lower caster level), brew quite a few other sutras, but otherwise it is very nice! I wonder if they'll ever expand it?

On a related note, do you know anything about this Jade Oath setting? I don't believe I'd use it unmodified, but I'd very much like to read it!

[Spuddles]

Some of the seem pretty busted to me, at least at the levels you get them, the amount you get, and how they don't cost anything.

Take this one, for instance:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/sutra-magic/flames-of-jade

At level 3, when you pick up Sutra Magic feat, you could be doing as much as 8d8 as a ranged touch attack, 5 times a day. There's not a whole lot at CR3-5 that could withstand a couple of those.

Unless I'm reading the "per effective spell level + sutra casting ability modifier" thing wrong.

[Talya]

Some of the seem pretty busted to me, at least at the levels you get them, the amount you get, and how they don't cost anything.

Take this one, for instance:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/sutra-magic/flames-of-jade

At level 3, when you pick up Sutra Magic feat, you could be doing as much as 8d8 as a ranged touch attack, 5 times a day. There's not a whole lot at CR3-5 that could withstand a couple of those.

Unless I'm reading the "per effective spell level + sutra casting ability modifier" thing wrong.

I think you are. You're using the effective caster level instead of the spell level, and adding the ability modifier in dice rather than as a flat bonus. At level 3 with 20 wisdom, your effective spell level is 2, and I think the damage is 2d8+5.

[Spuddles]

I think you are. You're using the effective caster level instead of the spell level, and adding the ability modifier in dice rather than as a flat bonus. At level 3 with 20 wisdom, your effective spell level is 2, and I think the damage is 2d8+5.

Oh. Wow. I misread that something terrible. Apply face to palm.

[Larkas]

I've just thought of something. These sutras are a great way for characters that rely on precision attacks to still affect creatures that are critical immune!