Raistlin Majere

[Cybrin]

Does anyone have a link to a stated Raistlin?

[Ignominia]

At what point in his career?
Red Robe Raistlin?
Black Robe Raistlin?
God Slayer Raistlin?

[Cybrin]

Opps, Red Robe... I meant to put that in haha

[Daftendirekt]

At what point in his career?
Red Robe Raistlin?
Black Robe Raistlin?
God Slayer Raistlin?

You forgot time-traveling Fistandantilus-becoming Raistlin!

[Ignominia]

AND lets not forget Post war of souls Raistlin without any magic...

In all seriousness, I believe that the stats for Raistlin are available in the Dragonlance books by Sovereign Press... Id check, War of the Lance, Dragons of Autumn or Towers of High Sorcery. Im AFB right now or Id pin its location down for ya...

[Cybrin]

Ill check there, Thanks!

[Phelix-Mu]

While we are quibbling, we can also distinguish between two different versions of Red Robe Raistlin; before Soulforge (I believe that was the name of the adventure) and the test in the Tower of High Sorcery, and after. He emerged from the Tower stronger in magic, but even more prone to sickness than before (to an extreme that seemed very serious in the novels...not sure how his stats would reflect this, but he was often depicted as being in various stages of ill to coughing up blood and passing out).

Man, good times reading those novels. Good times, indeed.

[Daftendirekt]

He emerged from the Tower stronger in magic, but even more prone to sickness than before (to an extreme that seemed very serious in the novels...not sure how his stats would reflect this, but he was often depicted as being in various stages of ill to coughing up blood and passing out).

I saw him statted out somewhere, I forget where -- probably one of the Dragonlance D20 books. I seem to recall him having like 4 CON. Yeah. Good thing Caramon was always around.

EDIT: I actually think it was when the 4e character builder first came out (the 1st, offline iteration) and there were a few prebuilt characters in it (including Raistlin, Drizzt, and some others). That's where I saw him with 4 con.

[Ignominia]

Ok got it...
Raistlin @lvl 1 - Towers of High Sorcery pg 4
Raistlin @ lvl 6 - War of the Lance pg 245
Raistlin @lvl 27 - Legend of the Twins pg 84

Hope that helps!

[Elderand]

There is Raistlin at level 5 pg 174 of dragon of autumn : war of the lance campaign volume one

And then there is a level 9 version on page 302 of dragon of spring : war of the lance campaign volume three

[Phelix-Mu]

Ok got it...
Raistlin @lvl 1 - Towers of High Sorcery pg 4
Raistlin @ lvl 6 - War of the Lance pg 245
Raistlin @lvl 27 - Legend of the Twins pg 84

Hope that helps!

Wow, the Tower at level 1. I guess that's part of why he got hit so hard. Ambition was always a big flaw for him. The guy had adamantine balls, though. With all the terrible luck, and surrounded by people he had only passing regard for (if whimsical fondness), I'm kind of conflicted by his character. He was at once a real jerk, yet displayed admirable levels of determination, grit, and ridiculous levels of aptitude. The part where he goes back in time, the Legends of the Twins bit, is just insane. Master of the Black Tower Raistlin was one scary dude.

[Philistine]

The really hilarious bit is the way the brothers Majere get brought up in anti-optimization arguments as examples of non-"minmaxed" characters. Obviously a Wizard with a crazy-high Int and lousy physical stats and a Fighter with amazing physical stats but very subpar mentals couldn't possibly be examples of "minmaxing," because most people originally met them in books rather than being presented with them as PCs for a D&D campaign. :smallsigh:

[Phelix-Mu]

The really hilarious bit is the way the brothers Majere get brought up in anti-optimization arguments as examples of non-"minmaxed" characters. Obviously a Wizard with a crazy-high Int and lousy physical stats and a Fighter with amazing physical stats but very subpar mentals couldn't possibly be examples of "minmaxing," because most people originally met them in books rather than being presented with them as PCs for a D&D campaign. :smallsigh:

I'm not really familiar the arguments you are referring to, but my feeling is that, sometimes, a story is mildly more to much more compelling if there are real crippling flaws behind the character in the story. Sometimes, optimization reduces character flaws to story fluff, and the character becomes a little less realistic in some respects. Now, role play can re-insert flaws, but convenient, non-mechanical stuff is a little superficial. Raistlin (by virtue of his magic, his low Con, or the power he was drawing on) seemed to hurt himself with his own casting. That would seem less optimal than casting without getting hurt by the casting. If Raistlin was cool (a cool character; I'm sure having to play him as one's character would suck, since your main class feature hurts you), then non-op can be cool.

In any case, novels that don't use mechanics come into conflict with rules-based recreations of the characters regularly, and I don't see a real reason to think that it's impossible to have a good story with good level of optimization.

Again, not really familiar with the discussions you are referring to.

[Elderand]

The really hilarious bit is the way the brothers Majere get brought up in anti-optimization arguments as examples of non-"minmaxed" characters. Obviously a Wizard with a crazy-high Int and lousy physical stats and a Fighter with amazing physical stats but very subpar mentals couldn't possibly be examples of "minmaxing," because most people originally met them in books rather than being presented with them as PCs for a D&D campaign. :smallsigh:

The hilarious bit is having people think those two character are optimised when almost every choice made for them is subpar.

Want to know what raistlin uses for his ten level epic spellslot ? Maximised delayed blast fireball, yes clearly that is an optimised character right there, roll back the incantatrix and metamagic reducer, the real optimisation is right there.

[Rhynn]

The really hilarious bit is the way the brothers Majere get brought up in anti-optimization arguments as examples of non-"minmaxed" characters. Obviously a Wizard with a crazy-high Int and lousy physical stats and a Fighter with amazing physical stats but very subpar mentals couldn't possibly be examples of "minmaxing," because most people originally met them in books rather than being presented with them as PCs for a D&D campaign. :smallsigh:

Fun/weird fact: In DL1, Raistlin has STR 10, INT 17, WIS 14, DEX 16, CON 10, and CHA 10. Caramon has STR 18/63 (highest in the party; Riverwind is the only other with 18/xx), INT 12, WIS 10, DEX 11, CON 17, CHA 15. Caramon is smarter than Tasslehoff (INT 9), as smart as Tanis and Goldmoon, and considerably smarter than Flint (INT 7!!). And how Flint, with CON 18, ever managed to die the way he did is beyond me... :smallamused:

[Amphetryon]

I'm not really familiar the arguments you are referring to, but my feeling is that, sometimes, a story is mildly more to much more compelling if there are real crippling flaws behind the character in the story. Sometimes, optimization reduces character flaws to story fluff, and the character becomes a little less realistic in some respects. Now, role play can re-insert flaws, but convenient, non-mechanical stuff is a little superficial. Raistlin (by virtue of his magic, his low Con, or the power he was drawing on) seemed to hurt himself with his own casting. That would seem less optimal than casting without getting hurt by the casting. If Raistlin was cool (a cool character; I'm sure having to play him as one's character would suck, since your main class feature hurts you), then non-op can be cool.

Sorry, but to me, this reads, at best, as an order-of-operations issue (did the Player conceive of a Character with a particular stat-based weakness, or did the Dice Gawds impose such a Character on him). At worst, this reads to me as an iteration of Stormwind Fallacy.

[dysprosium]

The miniatures stat card for Raistlin (Red Robe) from the Unhallowed set had him statted up as well.

They used to have all of the miniatures' stat cards on the WotC site but I bet those are long gone though . . .