OOTS #384 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Mr._Wilson]

Someone failed her sense motive check....again.

Also, I loved the first panel.

[Corp]

Well Nate recovered nicely with the language thing. Still will he be able to stay quiet for the rest of the night?!

And really how can anyone believe Nate is Elan with those opening lines. Elan likely doesn't know what most of those words mean. :p

[Sitzkrieg]

Thanks Giant! Keep them coming!

Why isn't her self-loathing pitching in?
Lack of protective gear seems rather obvious.

[Jonrea]

None too subtle about the lack of protective gear...

[Leo_Forestclaw]

LOL!!

Nale, stay quiet for the rest of the night?!?

I got 20 gp that says he can't do it. He'll crack under the pressure!

[Darkspear]

Now for the greatest question of all. Is :nale: good enough at seduction to get :haley: without words?

Can't wait to find out.

[Grimblade]

"It's so nice to see you not wearing any of your normal protective gear"

I have a really bad feeling about this... :smalleek:

I hope Haley has a good Dex bonus to her AC, though it won't matter if she's caught flat-footed.

[Earthstar_Fungus]

Wow. I wonder how she manages to keep her dress up?

[EmeraldFire]

I think Haley needs to put a few more ranks into Sense Motive :smallsmile:

[Wooter]

She's a rogue, of course she has good dexterity.

I can't believe she's still falling for it.

Now to wait until someone smarter than I decodes her speech...

[Nifft]

Oooo, poor Haley. She can't smell the difference even up close.

-- N

[nveinus]

Ah haley has uncanny dodge, she cant be caught flat-footed.
Also any puzzle fiends know what Haley said? Word games arent my strong point.

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

The suspense builds, as does my heart rate.

That was an interesting conclusion that Nale jumped to about her speech. Does he really think Elan is capable of learning another language?


Also any puzzle fiends know what Haley said? Word games arent my strong point.

I know. I had to figure it out before I posted. I'm not going to tell you, though. It made me wonder how Haley can't be more suspicious of "Elan," even if she is desperate.

[exxor]

Nale is suave :D

[Grey Knight]

Since you ask, the cipher is

CIPHER: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
PLAIN : shuodmfknv.....ywcjrbepati

Now you can decode it yourself :smallsmile:

[SPoD]

Ah haley has uncanny dodge, she cant be caught flat-footed.

Uh, yeah she can. She just doesn't lose her Dexterity bonus when she IS caught flat-footed. She can also be sneak attacked just fine, as long as the sneak attack results from being flat-footed (because she was surprised or rolled lower than Nale in initiative) and not being flanked (because she probably also has Improved Uncanny Dodge, which prevents being flanked).

I liked the last panel; same thoughts, completely different meaning.

[Grey Knight]

That was an interesting conclusion that Nale jumped to about her speech. Does he really think Elan is capable of learning another language?

Well, bards get oodles of skill points, and Speak Language is a class skill for them.

Also, to all you nay-sayers who thought Haley's Vanity was scruffy-looking; check how Haley does her hair when she wants to dress up!

[TheWanderingLlama]

For some reason Haley's dress looked really weird to me. It's bugging me for some reason.

I loved the same thoughts with different expressions.

[Heads_or_Tails]

Well, Haley seems to be really committed to not letting thinking get in the way of this, because really Nale's little slip there really should have tipped her off.

[Xi-1]

I can't believe she agreed to wear the dress. And hair down too. But if she's still taking chances, she probably has something planned for 'just in case.' Or maybe she'll just charm Nale until he can't attack her [not saying it]. Both the suspicion and the suspense mounts. Now I have to get a pencil and paper and decode Haley's speech though.

[Radome]

Man, Haley looks SO WEIRD in that dress. Guess I'm just to used to the brown armor:D

Good comic Giant.

[Quixoto]

Not to nitpick or anything, but that dress looks a little weird on her. I know the giant was trying to convey a dress that sorta hangs off the neck without straps or something sexy like what Celia had on during her date with Roy, but it's just not workin' for me here. Frankly, I'd almost be inclined to say that Haley looks... dumpy.

I'm so gonna get killed for that.

Really good comic today though. I can't wait to find out what Haley said, and whether it actually works with Nale's response.

[ampcptlogic]

Za ybxy acwwdave yd uv adfv adty dg sdhv?
Is that supposed to be some sort of joke?

Uvrxcav Z rxi'y awvxh?
Because I can't speak?

Zg ad, zy qxai'y jvtp gciip.
If so, it wasn t very funny.

[it17]

awww, Nale is not going to creat the same sense of betrayal when he kills her because ha can't tell everyone how he beat them.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Fashions for Miss Starshine provided courtesy of the Stevie Nicks collection at Victoria's Secret in exchange for promotional consideration

[Dib]

hehe... so close... Actually kinda glad she didn't find out... yet...

[LordOfNarf]

Jee, kinda blunt on the lack of protective gear, and looks like love does provide a -20 to sesne motive, even though it can provide a +2 bonus on some other skill checks

[Nerd_Paladin]

People who keep complaining about how obvious it is that Nale isn't Elan just need to take a deep breath and remind themselves that this is a comic strip and it's funnier that way.

Nale having to tapdance his way around stuff he doesn't know: Funny.

Nale being immediately found out and carted away: Not funny. Well, I take that back, more like LESS funny. But you get the idea.

PS
Oh, I'll bet you'd all just LOVE to have Miko and her Detect Evil eye beams around now, wouldn't you? Didn't know a (Lawful) good thing when you had it, didja? :P

[orange]

"Is that supposed to be some sort of Joke ? Because I can't speak ? If so, it wasn't very funny."

- Haley

Edit : Doh! Not fast enough.

[CatKnight]

I've been following OOTS for..actually a long time now, and finally got around to posting. I think this storyline has a lot of potential.

As for Haley not catching on to Nale that quickly....well, I suppose we can all be a little blind if we want something badly enough. :smallsmile:

[Alysar]

Haley's speach translated


Is that supposed to be some sort of joke?
Because I can't speak? If so, it wasn't very funny.



Edit:


"Is that supposed to be some sort of Joke ? Because I can't speak ? If so, it wasn't very funny."

- Haley

Edit : Doh! Not fast enough.

Ditto

[Pester]

Frankly, I'd almost be inclined to say that Haley looks... dumpy.

I'm so gonna get killed for that.

Hey, just because a girl's pretty doesn't mean there aren't plenty of clothing choices that can make her look fat/ugly (http://gofugyourself.typepad.com/)/ridiculous, and it shows how Nale doesn't know her that he got something completely unsuiting for her...

My only question, on the clothing front, is how Vanity let her out the door in that thing.

[Dawnstrider_Moogle]

On the one hand, it's really really cruel. On the other hand, it was actually really adorable...

[Kython]

honestly now, how can she not realize that elan is really not-elan!

-he's speaking way to eloquently
-he got her that skimpy black dress
-and the look of surprise on his face after hearing her speak

[ARMOURERERIC]

Haley is actually her evil twin "Comet" and is a nympho who knows it's Nale plans to kill him via exhaustion

[Grey Watcher]

Hey, is that the same unbelievably romantic restaurant that Celia and Roy went to?

Also, I love the last panel. :-) And yeah, why do sorcerers always dress so badly, anyway?

On a side note, I cannot help but wonder about this cool new strip! They're so cute :goes off and gushes in an unduly and stereotypically girly fashion:

[Xi-1]

My theory is that Nale unwittingly put points in the 'Digging My Own Grave Through Overthinking' Skill. I mean really, how could he have gotten Haley's dress size so wrong when there're only 2 she could be: small or medium. I guess this means she should have a 'small.' As uspicions rise, perhaps Haley will plot to blackmail Nale so she can nail him to a post called 'where is Elan?!'

[Lerch]

Yeesh more cliffhanger... and on a weekend..:frown: its times like this that remind me.....When in doubt, set something on FIRE! :belkar:

Hope you have an inspiring weekend Giant...I get to do slot 0's for a convention wearing OOTS "explosive runes" shirt...so my weekend will be inspiring :mitd:

[mikeejimbo]

Haley is actually her evil twin "Comet" and is a nympho who knows it's Nale plans to kill him via exhaustion

I must say, it took me a second, but funny anyway.

Also, I'm surprised, but glad, that people translated her speech already.

And I'm glad to see her looking hot.

[Elcaz]

If that's what Haley said, then what Nale answered worked perfectly for him. Good comic indeed.

[Amotis]

Cool and cool. New comic and...new comic.

[Demented]

Cute dialogue, though it would help if Nale were more accidentally charming. Though his lines are cheesey enough.

As for Haley's dress... It makes her look like she has gobs of chest hair. Mental images haven't been this disturbing since Belkar was showing off his Rod of Lordly Might.

Ah well, we just need next comic to be a re-enactment of Words Fail (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html), only with the last panel being Nale sobbing because he can't say anything.

[dakiwiboid]

Thanks to ampcptlogic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=2433) for posting a translation, because Grey Knight's cipher key is defective.

[Incendax]

I'm really suprised that Haley isn't bothered by the fact that she looks like a black dress version of the Sorceress that Elan was making out with during the Forest Bandit story arch, something her Self-Loathing seemingly reminds her of. Maybe it was a coincidence?

[Angela Christine]

LOL!!

Nale, stay quiet for the rest of the night?!?

I got 20 gp that says he can't do it. He'll crack under the pressure!

I don't know if Nale could stay quiet, but I'm sure Elan couldn't. Elan has practically no impulse control. "Elan" not constantly making inane chatter is going to be pretty suspicious!

[Grey Knight]

Thanks to ampcptlogic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=2433) for posting a translation, because Grey Knight's cipher key is defective.

I figure you're using it the wrong way around, since I copy-and-pasted that directly from where I was working on it. Find the letters in Haley's speech bubbles on the top (CIPHER) line, then transcribe it as the corresponding letter on the bottom (PLAIN) line. The dots are cipher letters that don't appear, so I don't know what they represent.

[Grey Watcher]

Cute dialogue, though it would help if Nale were more accidentally charming. Though his lines are cheesey enough.

Actually, I think it really illustrates the difference between the two. Elan is at his most charming when he has little to no idea what he's doing (which is surprisingly often). There's no guile in how he charms women. It's all spontaneous and sincere. Nale is his opposite. Nale's seduction is, like most of his endeavors, an overly complex plan, executed with as much style, flair, and smooth self-posession as possible.

Which brings us to Haley's apparent gullibility. I think the only reason Haley doesn't see through the whole thing is because she doesn't want to. Haley's Self-Loathing sees the difference, which means, deep down, Haley sees the difference, but she's been choosing to ignore it because she'd rather believe she's getting what she's wanted for goodness knows how long.

Also, I love the irony that Nale thinks he's so much better than his brother at... well, everything, and yet his initial assumption about Haley's aphasia is exactly the same as Elan's.

[EL ite]

Very impressive thought process Grey Watcher. I was thinking something along those lines but you got way in depth and really ground it out. My congradulations. (I can never spell that word...)

G'night all

[Eriol]

She's still obeying "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" as the Oracle told her.

[Brasswatchman]

PS
Oh, I'll bet you'd all just LOVE to have Miko and her Detect Evil eye beams around now, wouldn't you? Didn't know a (Lawful) good thing when you had it, didja? :P

Actually, aren't the Order in a place where there are a lot of paladins wandering around? ... oh, wait. Guess there would have to be some law against paladins busting out detect evil at random intervals - otherwise Belkar would've been discovered.

[Flak_Razorwill]

Aww. If I were a random waiter in the place, I'd say they make a cute couple.

Maybe they will.

*Giggles like a schoolgirl*

[teratorn]

Ahhh... too much cuteness... must... resist... urge to assert... masculinity by making some crude cheap dirty remark about women...

This comic rules, I can't believe I'm not disappointed for it not having some fight scenes.


Not to nitpick or anything, but that dress looks a little weird on her. I know the giant was trying to convey a dress that sorta hangs off the neck without straps or something sexy like what Celia had on during her date with Roy, but it's just not workin' for me here. Frankly, I'd almost be inclined to say that Haley looks... dumpy.

I'm so gonna get killed for that.
And painfully. I propose some Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion for your crime.

I like the dress. She is particularly elegant in the scenes sitting down. The problem is that standing up there is not enough leg (stick figures), probably would work better with shorter dress. She is also cute when dancing. There's really too much cuteness in this strip.


People who keep complaining about how obvious it is that Nale isn't Elan just need to take a deep breath and remind themselves that this is a comic strip and it's funnier that way.

How dare you say that? Some Being from the Higher Planes is telling the Giant exactly how things went by.

[Fale]

Haley looks a hell of a lot different here. It's a nice change to see her in a new uniform (even if it's temporary). Now that I think about it, isn't she the last member of the order to have a change of uniform of some sort? Well anyway, great comic.

[Tobimaro]

Haley: "Jeez, this dress. I look like a dominatrix." :smallbiggrin:

Maybe that is what :nale: really needs (seeing as how that is :sabine: 's roll is in the Linear Guild).

Nale, nice save there. Of course Haley seems to be treading thin ice here, not that she is noticing. :smallyuk:

[theKOT]

Actually, aren't the Order in a place where there are a lot of paladins wandering around? ... oh, wait. Guess there would have to be some law against paladins busting out detect evil at random intervals - otherwise Belkar would've been discovered.
They had to, what with the rampant lawsuits (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html) that were eating their way through the treasury.

[vbushido]

I believe Haley's dress has no straps that go over the shoulder or around the neck. Instead, it has laces on front and back that are tightened to make it form-fitting. From experience, a dress like this stays up by squeezing the middle so that the bosom and a prayer hold it up and so there is enough room for either food OR a breath of air to go in.

As for paladins everywhere, detect evil takes a standard action. So, it's generally done only when you suspect someone might be evil, not all the time.

---
Words to die by: "Hey, did you know there's a summoning circle under your establishment?"

[Felinoid]

Medium jokes and necessary plot (if a little light on advancement due to Nale's form). Good, necessary filler with some new art, but didn't really slake my thirst for OotS.

I like the dress. She is particularly elegant in the scenes sitting down. The problem is that standing up there is not enough leg (stick figures), probably would work better with shorter dress. She is also cute when dancing. There's really too much cuteness in this strip.
Hmm, I was going to say I didn't like it, but then I went back and took each panel individually, and it seems (to me) like she only looks frumpy in the panels where she has expression lines around her eyes (1, 5, 6, & 9). Somehow it affects the hair AND her dress. :smallconfused: And with her looking frumpy in the first panel, that pre-judgement somehow passed along to affect the rest of the strip for me. Fascinating... *walks away mumbling to self*

[charik]

Haley's too small up top to really fill out that dress. Too bad...

And she is soooo desperate to believe what's happening. If I didn't understand where she's coming from, I'd say it's pitiful.

Oh, and is that dress available from the Shop?:smallredface:

[phoenixineohp]

I'm not a fan of the dress either, though I love the sorc joke. I think it doesn't really have curves to it, too blocky. I like her hair down though.

[Alfryd]

"Actually, you look like a sorceress or something."

Oh! Oh! And burn!

"Is that supposed to be some sort of Joke ? Because I can't speak ? If so, it wasn't very funny."

She's has *got* to put two and two together pretty shortly.

[Grasilich]

I liked this strip, but I would once again would like to mention how bloody annoying it is to have to come to this forum to find out what Haley's saying. This junk has been going on for almost 150 strips now.

Here's hoping that Nale makes enough of a romantic breakthrough to cure her of the stupid crap. Haley used to be a good character.

[Elurindel]

Oooh, nice recovery by Nale. I really thought he'd blown it then. Haley must be really blind if she can't see the way Nale and Elan speak so differently. Self-deception is a wonderful thing:smallbiggrin:

[Sliverghost]

what did she say?...rot 13 told me some weird thing....and its usally right...

[Uzraid]

Fashions for Miss Starshine provided courtesy of the Stevie Nicks collection at Victoria's Secret in exchange for promotional consideration

Most. Accurate. Comment. Ever.

[SiD]

That dress is so 'borrowed' from Sabine's wardrobe... My guess is Nale took advantage of Sabine's absence to go through her stuff and pick out something as revealing (and unprotective) as possible. Probably stopped by a cemetery to pick up some flowers too...

Nice comic Giant, not quite the way I was expecting it to go but I guess we have to have the weekend cliffhanger!


what did she say?...rot 13 told me some weird thing....and its usally right...
The translation's already been posted several times in the last 2 pages alone...



Here's hoping that Nale makes enough of a romantic breakthrough to cure her of the stupid crap. Haley used to be a good character.
Well, I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish soon enough. For my money though, Haley still is a good character: she's just a good character in a different way... you know, with a bit more depth and development than the generic Thieving-Rogue-With-A-Heart-Of-Hidden-Gold Template #3B, previously used by Han Solo in EpIV.

[dsavereide]

I don't know if Nale could stay quiet, but I'm sure Elan couldn't. Elan has practically no impulse control. "Elan" not constantly making inane chatter is going to be pretty suspicious!
That's what I was thinking. During their last "date," not understanding a word she said didn't stop him from talking and talking. He's just too spontaenous.

[Mewtroid]

Alright. I wager a shiny rock that her finding out Nale isn't not-Nale or her getting her voice back takes place within the next 5 comics, and both within 20.

The rock is shiny. Shiny, I say! Shiny!

Also, she wore the dress? Dammit, Haley, do you WANT to look like a slut?

Also, it makes her look like she's holding her arms funny.

[Antina]

Wow - WOW - W O W !!!

Stunned no parry

[Antina]

Well Nate recovered nicely with the language thing. Still will he be able to stay quiet for the rest of the night?!

And really how can anyone believe Nate is Elan with those opening lines. Elan likely doesn't know what most of those words mean. :p


NaLe. Elans Twinbrother´s name is "elan" spelled backwards. :smallsmile:

[A Gray Phantom]

Haley looks pretty... but her hair is missing something. All she needs is a simple hair band (not scrunchie) or a simple tiara. That would make her look perfectly stunning. In order to pull the look together from bottom on up, it (hair band or tiara) would have to be black.. unless she had on some red or gray'ish shoes and purse. The latter would well compliment the whole ensemble and be thematically impressive.

And before anyone asks: Yes, I am a dude, and no I am not gay.

Ooh! After thought! Perhaps some subtle eye shadow and lipstick. That would be sexy :biggrin:.

[sbwilson]

Haley doesn't have the bosom for that dress. I did go back and look at each panel individually. It just isn't flattering her figure at all. Some people clean up well (like a certain sylph and a human fighter we could name), and others....well....

Give me the rough-and-tumble, adventure-ready Haley any day!

[Aerysil]

I really hope this doesn't get more complicated the way it might get complicated... you know... in a soap opera...

[Eldhrin]

Haley looks hotter in her normal armour.

I can't believe Nale travelled back from the bird's nest with them for three days and didn't realise there's something wrong with Haley's speech.

I also can't believe that Haley hasn't noticed that he's acting like he doesn't know. She really is blinded by love. Finding out it's not Elan is going to destroy her, poor girl.

[Old Book]

Sad and sweet. I'm guessing Nale falls for her and continues on the adventure for some time, possibly even after Elan's return. I'd also say Haley will half-fall for Nale, giving us two love triangles.

[Squall83]

I saw her boobies! XDDD

I must say, that Nale is not bad at keeping his cover, except that he didn't really imitate Elans way of speaking.


He didn't tell Belkar to not tell everyone else that Nale isn't Elan

[rosebud]

I liked this strip, but I would once again would like to mention how bloody annoying it is to have to come to this forum to find out what Haley's saying.What she says really isn't important for understanding the strip. She's clearly annoyed, which is all that really matters.

Unrelated, I'm amused they both say "stay silent" rather than "not talk". Not talking doesn't exactly require silence.

[Tomada]

Geez.... Haley MUST be taking one on her sense motive checks...

[Grasilich]

Well, I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish soon enough. For my money though, Haley still is a good character: she's just a good character in a different way... you know, with a bit more depth and development than the generic Thieving-Rogue-With-A-Heart-Of-Hidden-Gold Template #3B, previously used by Han Solo in EpIV.

She's had nice development, but generally speaking I would prefer to get her character development from the actual comic, rather than from the first three pages of one of these threads. I'm fairly certain that Haley can have depth and development while simultaneously speaking English. The Cryptogram thing was cute at first, but it's just gone on way too damn long now.

[~The Patriots~]

sabine is not going to be happy

[JONJONAUG]

Well, Haley certainly isn't looking the gift horse in the mouth here. :D

I'm thinking this might be what the oracle meant earlier.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I have read the posts, and up until now, no one has given the obligatory "priceless" or "classic." Thus, it is up to me to say it.

*sigh* I wish I didn't have to to this...

Priceless.

There. I have done my duty. You may all go about your business.

[Erimore]

Haley looks pretty... but her hair is missing something. All she needs is a simple hair band (not scrunchie) or a simple tiara. That would make her look perfectly stunning. In order to pull the look together from bottom on up, it (hair band or tiara) would have to be black.. unless she had on some red or gray'ish shoes and purse. The latter would well compliment the whole ensemble and be thematically impressive.

And before anyone asks: Yes, I am a dude, and no I am not gay.




*lol* If you aren't, the gay community wants to know why not.

Peace.

[Miklus]

Respect to Haley for being brave enough to put that dress on...and yes, it might just be one of Sabine's outfits. Neither girl is going to be too thrilled about that, i'm sure. Dun Dun Dunnnn!

Ooooh, she is going to be so dissapointed when she finds out that's not Elan. But then again, she still has the real Elan to mother. Once they get him out of jail, of cause.

[Adeptus]

Good comic, but I'm relly impatient to see how this continues. I have to wait until tuesday too, here in Finland.

[kimnor2]

I've been following OOTS for..actually a long time now, and finally got around to posting. I think this storyline has a lot of potential.

Same here.

I love the look on :haley:'s face in the 9th frame. I think part of :haley: (take your pick) knows that what ":elan:" just said doesn't make sense for :elan: (like it is showing through on her face, ie she can't totally supress the thought). But she does suppress it because she really wants to.

[Blood]

Hmmm...interesting comic. Keeps us in suspense, yet again.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

and now, back to our little murderous halfling.

=)

[SteveMB]

Also, it makes her look like she's holding her arms funny.
Maybe Nale was clever enough to make sure the dress required Haley to focus her attention on avoiding a "wardrobe malfunction", thus making it that much harder to defend herself when he was ready to strike.

[Noneoyabizzness]

nale isn't a rogue 4 levels higher than haley, so he can't sneak attack her, just to the sa comments on the first page.(poor nale, 3 classes, still sucking.)

but now the idea of elan saying something and putting his foot in his mouth is not so unbelieveable. he has been known to insult people accidnetially (look to the elan as a wizard, someof his interactions with roy, etc. so the way nale played it off was not so bad, except he is using some very complicated words.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Wow. I wonder how she manages to keep her dress up?


If you can find a copy of "A Random Walk in Science" (ISBN 0 85498 027 X), look at Page 115 for "A Stress Analysis of a Strapless Evening Gown"

Some people have waaaay too much time on their hands.

(Yes, I know the article is a spoof.)

And about the comic: Hilarious. I really liked the last panel, with Haley and Nale saying exactly the same thing with completely different emphasis.

[Amon Star]

Arrgh! The suspence is killing me! Come on Giant, we're your loyal fans, stop doing this to us.
Seriously though, nice comic. But, come on :haley:, get with the program & Sneak Attack :nale:, Extreme Upper Thigh!


Since you ask, the cipher is

CIPHER: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
PLAIN : shuodmfknv.....ywcjrbepati

Now you can decode it yourself :smallsmile:

Thanks. :smile:


Hey, just because a girl's pretty doesn't mean there aren't plenty of clothing choices that can make her look fat/ugly (http://gofugyourself.typepad.com/)/ridiculous, and it shows how Nale doesn't know her that he got something completely unsuiting for her...

Maybe that's a part of :nale:'s plan


How dare you say that? Some Being from the Higher Planes is telling the Giant exactly how things went by.

Blasphemy! The Giant IS a being from a Higher Plane! :tongue:

[Trobby]

That's what I was thinking. During their last "date," not understanding a word she said didn't stop him from talking and talking. He's just too spontaenous.

Not to mention he's the World-Record Blah Holder. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not too fond of this dress myself..it's just too skanky and revealing.

While I'll admit that Haley is still the cutest stick figure I've ever seen, that outfit doesn't nearly do her justice. I'm almost positive that if Elan ever got her a dress, it would be far more tasteful.

And as someone said before, I think it IS pretty funny that Nale jumped to the same conclusion as Elan...^^ Rich is doing a very good job keeping the whole "Twin Brothers" thing believable...

Can anyone imagine how utterly Don Juan Elan would be if he hadn't been abused by Nale so young? Natural Charm + Knowledge (Romance) = irresistable Ladie's man.

[KeiranHalcyon]

Haley doesn't have the bosom for that dress. I did go back and look at each panel individually. It just isn't flattering her figure at all. Some people clean up well (like a certain sylph and a human fighter we could name), and others....well....

Give me the rough-and-tumble, adventure-ready Haley any day!

Oh, I'm sure Haley could clean up very nicely - IF she got to chose her attire on her own.

[florakay]

I just have to say that I'm quite impressed by the ability to use chopsticks, with only three stick-figure fingers.

I have a hard enough time with 5 human fingers. :)

[Manga Shoggoth]

I just have to say that I'm quite impressed by the ability to use chopsticks, with only three stick-figure fingers.

I have a hard enough time with 5 human fingers. :)

Should be easier with three stick-figure fingers. Thumb across the top to hold them, one finger to each chopstick. No extra fingers to confuse matters.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hi first post ever, but I followed this forum for quite a bit.

I never break my head to understand Haley's speech. So, everybody who wants to decypher her, just go at www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/cryptogram/ and type the cryptograms of a whole page in it. Really good website

[xyzchyx]

If you can find a copy of "A Random Walk in Science" (ISBN 0 85498 027 X), look at Page 115 for "A Stress Analysis of a Strapless Evening Gown"

Is that the same as this (http://gendertree.com/a_stress_analysis_of_a_strapless.htm)?

Not that I'm trying to discourage people from buying the book, but you can usually find almost anything on the internet.

[Diabhan]

I would have thought that Haley would have caught on by now...with a superior sense motive or something...

[AyuVince]

Haley must be completely blinded by her growing insanity and "Elan's" sudden change from dunce to gigolo. If you don't want to suspect anything, you don't.

And I'm sure trying to keep silent will break Nale eventually. This guy is a narcissistic evil genius. He has to constantly expound his fiendish cleverness. If forced to keep quiet, he'll collapse.

Great comic!

[MonkeyHead]

hahahahaha

the title of the comic is so true

these comics have such insight it is amazing!

[skinkatlarge]

I recognize the humor in Nale making so many huge mistakes that no one notices, but it still peeves me that Haley, who presumably finds all those Elanisms as endearing as we do, still reacts the same to Nale's utterly, totally not-Elanlike mannerisms. Love is blind, sure, but this makes it look like she doesn't even know Elan the least bit. Like it's just a shallow crush, not True Love. Huh. I guess that means I wanna see them get together. Didn't realize that myself. I can be such a romantic.

On the other hand, if she did look the gift horse in the mouth, we'd be that much farther from seeing her getting her voice back, so I guess I can live with it. :)

[Krytha]

Haley's hair makes her kinda frumpy looking... Maybe its the bump at the back...

[divine]

well that sucks.
haley is a moron! I can't believe she's so blind..

[teratorn]

well that sucks.
haley is a moron! I can't believe she's so blind..
Another forum member in need of Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion.

[Maerad of Pellinor]

So are all OotS dates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html) silent? :smalltongue:

[Bilbo27]

Loved it. Loved the last panel with their opposite expressions, and I think the dress looks fine!!

[Thexare Blademoon]

So are all OotS dates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html) silent? :smalltongue:I think words would've got in the way of that one. That comic did a good enough job of conveying what was going on without text, and I think actually having the text there would've been a distraction.

[Blaznak]

Ok, there is something fundamentally creepy about this comic, but I'm not sure what it is... That said, I have to admit Nale sure managed to recover nicely from the Haley Speech impediment! Nifty.

Also, I'm in the camp of folks who vote Haley's dress looks... odd...

Well, Ja, ne....

[Pester]

Ok, there is something fundamentally creepy about this comic, but I'm not sure what it is... That said, I have to admit Nale sure managed to recover nicely from the Haley Speech impediment! Nifty.

Also, I'm in the camp of folks who vote Haley's dress looks... odd...

Well, Ja, ne....

I think the creepiness partly comes from the color scheme. You have "Elan" and Haley both in black, which doesn't suit either of them very well, the dark colors of the restaurant, Haley's Self Doubt all gothed up. The only bits of color is Haley's and Nale's hair, which your eye is automatically drawn to. All in all, it's pretty shady.

[sir Shaemus]

I speak on behalf of my True Neutral party member, the Great Sorceress Kreson, when I say that sorceress (or sorcerer) jokes are funny, but maybe, just maybe, offensive. Which isn't to say I didn't love the comic.
A really obscure language: "Haleycryptospeak".:smallwink:

[Deuce]

Is that the same as this (http://gendertree.com/a_stress_analysis_of_a_strapless.htm)?

Not that I'm trying to discourage people from buying the book, but you can usually find almost anything on the internet.

I believe that may have run in AIR (Annals of Improbable Research) as well.
(I don't currently subscribe, but do still by their books when they come out).

[Nightfall]

Oohhhhh, Haley....watch your back, hun!:eek:

[Mystral_Darkhaven]

I love Nale's expression when he's laughing. I am always surprised at the range of emotions that can be portrayed in Rich's art style.
As for Haley's dress, it looks like it not only doesn't suit her but could fall off at any point. It brings across the awkwardness that I'm sure Haley is feeling in this situation.

[WarriorTribble]

Why do I get the suspicion that this'll end in Sneak Attach Knee in Crotch?

[A Gray Phantom]

*lol* If you aren't, the gay community wants to know why not.

Peace.
Wait, are you hitting on me :smallamused:?

[florakay]

I now find myself wondering if Haley's dress is made of something other than mere fabric.

Anyone kill a Pleather (tm) monster lately, perhaps? That would explain how it could stay up, be cut like that, and be so awkward looking all at the same time....

[theangelJean]

Loved the comic, but just thinking about the dress...
How on earth do you manage to put on a dress that needs lacing up at both the front and the back?
Definitely has some dexterity, our Haley.

[Grey Knight]

*lol* If you aren't, the gay community wants to know why not.

Peace.
Wait, are you hitting on me :smallamused:?

Oh, get a Mordenkainen's private sanctum, you two.


I think Haley's "eating face" in frame 4 was a nice touch, by the way. I don't think we've had one of those before, have we?

[Seik]

She's a rogue, of course she has good dexterity.

Fail, wooter! ;)

Although if you've read the comic before, Haley's acrobatic antics imply that she either has excellent dexterity or aces her rolls due to protagonist advantage, rogues don't necessarily have high dex. In my homegame, we've got a rogue with dex as his 2nd stat, behind charisma.

Rogues are all about being skilled, and the stats any rogue has will be determined by what type of rogue they are. (Although, like I said above, Haley has demonstrated high dex before... and citing those examples rather than her rogue class might have proven less fallible)

[Amon Star]

Can anyone imagine how utterly Don Juan Elan would be if he hadn't been abused by Nale so young? Natural Charm + Knowledge (Romance) = irresistable Ladie's man.

But if he was like that, would he still be :elan:? And would :haley: have fallen for him?


So are all OotS dates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html) silent? :smalltongue:

This one wasn't;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html


Why do I get the suspicion that this'll end in Sneak Attach Knee in Crotch?

I hope so.


I think Haley's "eating face" in frame 4 was a nice touch, by the way. I don't think we've had one of those before, have we?

:belkar: in this one;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html

[TheRani]

With Haley wearing that dress, I wouldn't be shocked if it ended with Haley getting drunk, dancing on a table, and singing, "Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves" to a bunch of paladins.

[KeiranHalcyon]

:belkar: in this one;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html

Or for a closer expression to Haley's, the girl in the forground of panel three in 313 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html).

[Manga Shoggoth]

Is that the same as this (http://gendertree.com/a_stress_analysis_of_a_strapless.htm)?

Not that I'm trying to discourage people from buying the book, but you can usually find almost anything on the internet.

Yup. That's the bunny. Including the diagrams.

I wouldnt discourage people from buying the book, but (as the title implies) it has a very strong science element in it's humour, so it may not be for all the readers of the forum.

[Manga Shoggoth]

With Haley wearing that dress, I wouldn't be shocked if it ended with Haley getting drunk, dancing on a table, and singing, "Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves" to a bunch of paladins.

Given that she will be singing it as a cryptogram, she will probably be arrested for being drunk and incapable.

[The Hammer of Thor]

Nice. Though that was stupid of Haley not to realise that Nale has no idea what shes talking about.

[Amon Star]

Or for a closer expression to Haley's, the girl in the forground of panel three in 313 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0313.html).

Good catch. Never noticed that before.

[Tantolian]

Wow, I didn't think there was this much discussion about what was happening in the OotS Comic.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Rich,

I've been enjoying this storyline. We all know that intelligent people are the best at self-deception, so I don't think Haley is stupid at all. And I really adore the ending of this strip with both characters thinking the same phrase with totally different meanings. Wonderful.

As for other commentary, I liked the dress and would even be willing to wear something like that... wardrobe malfunction potential or not.

As for the cryptograms, they were fun while they lasted but I am hoping that Haley will find the cure soon in the strips that follow. I agree that it would be fun to hear her lines directly again.

[Balathustrius]

Rich, love your comic. It has given me a reason to look forward to Mondays... :smallsmile:

Thanks and Kudos!

[skinkatlarge]

I hope Roy gets a chance to let Haley reflect on the irony of panel 7 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0046.html)...

[hillhome]

So... it has apparently taken me rougly 384 strips to realize that Nale is simply Elan spelled backwards. Sometimes the density of myself amazes me.

As for the strip the ending was great haha!

[charik]

So... it has apparently taken me rougly 384 strips to realize that Nale is simply Elan spelled backwards. Sometimes the density of myself amazes me.

Don't be so hard on yourself; it's only been 340 strips of self-deception.:smalltongue:

[Manga Shoggoth]

Despite the skin-tight revealing dress, I reckon she still has a couple of daggers hidden somewhere. For some reason visions of Jessica Rabbit (towards the end of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit") spring to mind.

:haley: But I'm a rogue. Hiding is my best skill.

(OK, I know that's not what the skill means).

[Angela Christine]

Loved the comic, but just thinking about the dress...
How on earth do you manage to put on a dress that needs lacing up at both the front and the back?
Definitely has some dexterity, our Haley.

Maybe she has ranks in use rope? That might help. :smallbiggrin:

[CockroachTeaParty]

Ya know, I don't think Haley looks good in that dress. And you'd think Nale would dress up a little swankier as well...

How did they find non-blue clothes in Azure City anyway? I refuse to read this strip ever again, for that reason.


...[/stupidity]

[geoschmo]

So... it has apparently taken me rougly 384 strips to realize that Nale is simply Elan spelled backwards. Sometimes the density of myself amazes me.


You aren't doing so bad. Imagine how it must feel for someone like me to need 384 strips, AND someone posting it to realize it. :smallredface:

[Argus]

Maybe she has ranks in use rope? That might help. :smallbiggrin:

You mean 8 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html) or so?

[sir Shaemus]

My friend Norwind Welby the Bard figured out what Haley says:
"Is this supposed to be some sort of joke? Because I can't speak? If so, it's not very funny."

[fangthane]

Just to make sure everyone knows the real rules about rogues and backstabs, unless she's held Haley can't be sneak attacked by Nale. There are 3 reasons.
1. Many people have got this one correct; Haley cannot be deprived of her dex bonus to AC unless held, tied, etc.
2. Many have also got this one correct - Haley cannot be flanked except by a character with 4 more levels of sneak attack progression than she has rogue levels (I put it that way because other classes also get the ability to sneak attack and generally stack levels)
3. Here, I'll quote the specific text of the Sneak Attack ability: "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.

Since, as of level 4, she can't be deprived of her dex unless immobilised, and as of level 8 she can't be flanked except by a character with (at this point) at least 16 levels in classes which gain sneak attacks (and possibly 17), Nale will be incapable of sneak attacking her unless he manages to convince her to go in for bondage.

Sorry, I was a little perturbed by people discussing sneak attacks and not clearly understanding the rules associated therewith.

Anyhow, I liked the comic but I agree that Haley with her hair down has a tendency to look a little dowdy. Nale is, ironically, saved by his own complete lack of comprehension which (unbeknownst to him but knownst to us) is shared by his brother. Of course there're several spots at which, if Haley weren't suppressing her distrust, she might have noticed something, but the fact she didn't is consistent and credible. His decision to speak no further is possibly the most 'sensitive' thing 'Elan' has done with respect to Haley's aphasia to date, and her reaction to it is perfect. Not a lot of plot advancement nor a lot of humour per se, but a nice "fast-forward" through the public portion of their date, and a setup for what we know is to come; Nale's plan being interrupted by something unexpected. (I mean come on, we know Haley can't die permanently without the Haley's Dad story arc being resolved, now can she?!) I know this isn't the ratings thread, but I'm strangely OK with that. 7/10. :)

[battleburn]

I've been busy, so I haven't been keeping track of all that has been said the last couple of days, but I know where Belkars singing comes from in 383.
It comes frome episode 132; "Who will be the moron after Gortok's white hot anger crushes your little body into a mangled bloody pulp while Gortok sings a jaunty tune to accompany your unanswered cries for mercy?" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0132.html)

[teratorn]

Since, as of level 4, she can't be deprived of her dex unless immobilised, and as of level 8 she can't be flanked except by a character with (at this point) at least 16 levels in classes which gain sneak attacks (and possibly 17), Nale will be incapable of sneak attacking her unless he manages to convince her to go in for bondage.
Nah, she's dressed like a dominatrix, Nale would be the one tied up.


I mean come on, we know Haley can't die permanently without the Haley's Dad story arc being resolved, now can she?!
A whole story arc? It's possible. I see this arc finishing with the battle for Azure city, and then another Xykon themed one at the next gate. The Giant says, in Paladin Blues, that he plans running the OOTS 4 or 5 years more, so were are talking about something like 3 or 4 story arcs before Xykon finally dies.

[fangthane]

Well, perhaps "story arc" is a bit grandiose in describing what should, probably, be dealt with in relatively short order once all the pieces are in place, you're right... But regardless, until that's resolved I don't see Haley being let off the hook with an early exit. Not that she can't be killed, but I consider it unlikely in the near term.

What's bothering me more is that I've bet some quatloos that the OotS will be gone by the time Xykon and Miko arrive and I've recently come up with some possibilities which invalidate that bet. Grr.
At a 4-8 hour max duration, Charm Person won't last the night, which makes it very likely Nale's cover will be blown, either by Belkar's attack or once the charm wears off. That could delay their departure.

[Wrecan]

I'm pretty sure Nale expects Belkar to kill the rest of OOTS, or for the rest of OOTS to have killed Belkar, well before then. (With the showtunes being used as an excuse to prevent Belkar from inadvertantly revealing who it was that turned Belkar against them.)

[consul]

Oooo, poor Haley. She can't smell the difference even up close.
-- N

It's unsettling still that Belkar does and Haley can't.

[Angela Christine]

You mean 8 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html) or so?

That's the bunny. I thought I'd read it, but I couldn't find it on the spur of the moment. 8 ranks in using rope should be more than enough to help her manage even fairly complex dress lacing without help. :smallwink: And she probably did it without help, because her own barely suppressed doubts about the situation would keep her from going to V, much less the other guys.




It's unsettling still that Belkar does and Haley can't.

How often does Haley get to smell Elan when he's just had a wash and is wearing clean clothes? :smalltongue: Most of the time they are together they are "working" and their work involves trudging around in dungeons and whatnot, at which point they all smell like sweat, smoke and occasionally BBQ sauce. If they had already been a couple for a while she'd have learned his personal scent and might be able to detect the difference.


I wonder if Belkar doesn't really have a better sense of smell than other people, he just pays more attention to it? Humans usually don't pay much conscious attention to their sense of smell. Mothers can identify their own baby's shirt by smell alone, http://zebra.sc.edu/smell/mary-amy/mary_amy_doc.html so smell probably does give us more information than we usually think about. If we can see, we pay more attention to what we see than to what we smell or hear. If something in Belkar's past prompted him to pay attention to scents, he wouldn't need better-than-human senses to gather information through scent.

OMG, Belkar was raised by wolves!!! :smalltongue:

[bengator]

I still think its very disappointing that Haley can't figure out that Nale is not Elan (Not-Nale?). I understand about suspending disbelief, but where one is trying to move forward a plot and provide depth of character, one has to provide real motives for the characters, and it just seems unrealistic that she would not sense the difference between Nale and ELan. The difference in speech, mannerisms, IQ, etc. are just too numerous and too striking. And everything she likes Elan for (humor, innocence, etc.) is obvously missing. Thus, as a mechanism for revealing more about Haley's character, I don't find this part of the strip useful or all that entertaining.

I would hope that it was all a Haley set up, but b/c we know all of Haley's thoughts, we know that she has fallen for it. I'm ready for this to resolve itself somehow, maybe w/ the real Elan coming in at the last minute and a backstory of escape? Who knows, but lets see something else . . .

And having said that, I know its just a webcomic, and not War and Peace. And I am a BIG fan. Its just this particular side story isn't working for me. I'll just wait until the next arc rolls around. Thanks for the work, Rich.

[fangthane]

To be honest, I see that as a dig at the D&D rules, which generally are based on a couple of main rolls to determine outcomes. For me, it's a small added bit of humour to note that once someone's 'attitude' vis-a-vis another character is set, it tends to remain unless jarred (such as by the death of an important retainer or a charm person). It's not entirely realistic, true, but it points up deficiencies which most roleplayers tend to overlook.

[nybbler]

And before anyone asks: Yes, I am a dude, and no I am not gay.



Hmm. Unusually concerned with appearances... Fashionable cape... Cap with feather... you're the Yankee Doodle Dandy!

[Prince_Rohan]

For some reason Haley's dress looked really weird to me. It's bugging me for some reason.

I am comfortable enough in my sexuality (Very manly and hetro, thanks for asking) to address this fashion/artwork anomoly and agree.

Haley's adventure attire is designed to show her midriff - a sexy look. An evening gown on a stick figure doesn't work unless you change the body shape the artist has already commited to. It isn't until the last panel that you can see the proper thing to do is screw continuity and give Haley an hourglass figure. Thereby keeping the hot, hot and the cold, cold.

'Cuz right now she just looks 'frumpy'.