3.5 - making a soulbow

[SciChronic]

This is almost purely a theory crafting, as the next character i'm making is almost entirely set on being a factotum to be the skillmonkey and face, but in the case that she should ever die, i was considering making a soulbow.

The soulbow was a class i've always been rather interested in, as i have a natural liking to martial ranged attackers, and psionics in general i find interesting. But as i've found after attempting to actually run a soulknife, and from the forum, the class is incredibly weak and lackluster. Yet, whenever i look at the soulbow class, something in me says "i should try this again." So I'm here to see if you guys can help me make a decent soulbow.

Current ideas include:
As few levels in Soulknife as possible
Swordsage for bonus Wis scaling and maneuvers for positioning
kensai for weapon enhancement
zen archery for more Wis scaling
lucky enhancement for lots of rerolls

issues i'm coming accross:
All current base classes and PrCs use 3/4 BAB, and while zen archery can cover it somewhat, i'd like to make as many attacks as possible without punishing my attack bonus too much.

------------------------------

Edit: I will post current Build in the spoiler below
Current build:
{table]Level|Class Levels|Feats|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will
1|Cloistered Cleric 1|Able Learner[Human], Point Blank Shot[CL1], Knowledge Devotion[C.Cleric 1], Extend Spell[Domain: Planning]|0|2|0|2
2|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 1|Weapon Focus(Mind Blade)[Soulknife1], Wild Talent[Soulknife 1]|0|2|2|4
3|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2|Zen Archery[CL3]|1|2|3|5
4|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 1|-|1|2|3|7
5|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 2|Combat Expertise[Human Paragon2]|2|2|3|8
6|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3|Persistent Spell[CL6]|3|3|4|8
7|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 1|Precise Shot[Soulbow 1]|3|3|6|10
8|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2|-|4|3|7|11
9|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 1|Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell)[CL9]|4|3(5)|7|11(13)
10|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2|Rapid Shot>Extra Turning>Woodland Archer>Martial Study>Any[Chameleon 2]|5|3(5)|7|11(13)
11|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 1|-|5|3(5)|7|13(15)
12|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 2|Rapid Shot[CL12]|6/1|3(5)|7|14(16)
13|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 3|-|7/2|4(6)|8|14(16)
14|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 3, Kensai 3|-|8/3|5(7)|9|15(17)
15|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 4, Kensai 3|Extra Turning[CL15]|9/4|5(7)|9|15(17)
16|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 5, Kensai 3|-|9/4|5(9)|9|15(19)
17|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 6, Kensai 3|-|10/5|6(10)|10|16(20)
18|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3|Woodland Archer[CL18]|11/6/1|6(10)|12|18(22)
19|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3, Swordsage 1|-|11/6/1|6(10)|13|19(23)
20|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3, Swordsage 2|-|12/7/2|6(10)|13|19(23)[/table]
While the BAB looks rather atrocious for a ranged martial-style fighter, there are special points to take note of:
-Zen archery makes your key attribute govern Attack and Damage for your mind arrows
-minor boosts are granted through point bland shot and weapon focus
-Lvl8 the enhancement bonus granted to your mind arrows should be Lucky. Since the bonus is granted to the ammunition and not the weapon(you mind?) you can reroll every single attack that misses once.
-Lvl9 Access to chameleon and DMM Persist allows persisting Swift Haste, allowing an extra attack (at this point 1 attack is now 2)
-Lvl10 Rapid Shot is aquired through the Floating Feat granted to Chameleons, allowing an extra attack (at this point 1 becomes 3, at a -2). this feat then becomes the next feat to be actually gained until level 18 where it becomes a floating feat for whatever you need.
-Lvl13 You can turn your mind arrow into Lucky Splitting Mind Arrows through the combination of your Soulbow and Kensai enhancements, you now have 8 arrows per round ([2(BAB)+1(haste)+1(rapid shot)]*2(splitting)) each of which can be rerolled due to Lucky.
-Lvl16 With a high enough wisdom score (which you should have) you have access to 4th level spells, meaning you can DMM Persist Divine Power, making BAB no longer an issue.

[Zombulian]

Maybe pick up a level in Shiba Protector from OA for Wis to hit and damage *again*?

[Azernak0]

There was another thread that was talking about Archer builds. This was linked. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284283) It is just two levels of Soulbow in the first build but seems interesting.

[Psyren]

I don't have a lot of advice as I don't build many archers; definitely go for Feat Soulknife though since Psychic Strike won't help and archers tend to be feat-intensive.

[SciChronic]

i also need to take into consideration the skill rank requirements for the PrCs.

Soulbow requires 8 ranks in Auto-hypnosis
Kensai requires 5 ranks in Concentration, Diplomacy, and ride

i can get Autohypnosis to at least 5 ranks by level 2, along with concentration, but none of the base classes (soulknife, swordsage, ranger?) have diplomacy, and waiting until level 10 to even open up the possibility of being a kensai is really out of the question. having to be level 11 before i can use the defining feature of the build with a +1 bonus is a joke.

[dysprosium]

Ranger and Swordsage have Concentation and Ride.

Pick up Diplomacy through either the Apprentice (entertainer) feat from DMG II or Martial Study (any White Raven maneuver).

Apprentice is a first level only feat so keep that in mind.

[SciChronic]

current plan:
soulknife 2/rogue(martial variant) 2/Swordsage 4/soulbow 1/ kensai 10/ swordsage 1

this still puts me at level10 for when i get a +1 weapon, still not ideal >.>

[animewatcha]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

Allows for ride to be tagged out to gain tumble. Talk to your DM to see if he can let you do the reverse.

-edit-. What race and alignment is this soulbow gonna be. Asking in regards to two things that can get you ride as the number of ranks you need, but need to meet requirements.

[Piggy Knowles]

A couple of thoughts...

1. Check with your DM on this one, but there's actually nothing that says you can't use your mind arrows in a regular bow. It does say that your mind arrow is identical in all ways (except visually) to the arrows fired from a composite longbow. If you can use an actual magical bow, Soulbow becomes a significantly better class, as it allows you to just purchase a magical bow to fire your arrows from.

2. Personally, I prefer using magic to buff my arrows rather than Kensai. My favorite Soulbow build (which was linked to earlier) uses Chameleon, whose bootstrapped casting is Wisdom-based and includes all the spells you'd need to enchant your mind arrows, increase your BAB to full, give you ranged attack bonuses, split them, etc. This comes online much quicker than Kensai, and gives you a lot more utility, too. I'll post that build in just a bit.

3. Ranger is nice to pick up Rapid Shot without needing the Dex requirement, if you're going the Zen Archer route anyhow. Makes point buy a lot less painful.

Here is my preferred soulbow build:

Human, Cloistered Cleric (Knowledge, Planning, Trickery) 1/Soulknife 2/Ranger 2/Soulbow 2/Chameleon 10/Swordsage 2/Warblade 1

PROGRESSION:

1. Cloistered Cleric1- Point Blank Shot, Able Learner, Knowledge Devotion, Extend Spell
2. Soulknife1- Weapon Focus (mind blade), Hidden Talent (psionic minor creation)
3. Ranger1- Track, Precise Shot
4. Ranger2- Rapid Shot
5. Soulknife2-
6. Soulbow1- Zen Archery, Persistent Spell
7. Soulbow2-
8. Chameleon1-
9. Chameleon2- Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
10. Chameleon3-
11. Chameleon4-
12. Chameleon5- Extra Turning
13. Chameleon6-
14. Chameleon7-
15. Chameleon8- Travel Devotion
16. Chameleon9-
17. Chameleon10-
18. Swordsage1- Woodland Archer
19. Swordsage2-
20. Warblade1-


NOTE: If your DM allows flaws, feat-granting magical locations, or allows you to use items to meet prestige class requirements, you can drop Warblade for Shiba Protector from OA. You lose out on White Raven Tactics, but the gains are more than worth it - double Wisdom to both attack and damage is quite nice.

With a Charisma of 10, you've got 28 turn attempts, so enough to persist four spells. Divine Power is an obvious choice, and I'd probably nab Swift Haste as well. For your third and fourth - geez, there are a ton of good options. Inspired Aim? Greater Blink? Find the Gap? Master Air? Cloud of Knives? Hunter's Eye? (For a close-range archer I'd probably try to up myself to five persisted spells, either with items or by boosting my Charisma to 14, and take Divine Power/Swift Haste/Greater Blink/Cloud of Knives/Hunter's Eye. Enjoy firing at full BAB, plus extra attacks from Haste, Rapid Shot and Cloud of Knives, while dealing the sneak damage of a rogue.)

As for spells you don't even have to worry about persisting, Owl's Insight gives you a hefty +10 bonus to your Wisdom (more, if you can boost your CL - karma prayer beads are your friend). And don't forget about all the nifty swift action ranger spells.

If you ARE particularly attached to Kensai, I might start with ranger, soulknife and warblade, and splash in swordsage a little later. It takes a little bit longer for the Wisdom synergy of swordsage to come along, but warblade has a lot of maneuvers that work with ranged attacks, and it'll keep your IL high for when you do take swordsage. Meanwhile, it'll help you qualify for Kensai earlier, so that you can get to the magic moment where you can apply the Splitting enhancement to your mind arrows as quickly as possible...

[SciChronic]

The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow
so i don't believe you can shoot the mind arrows from another bow

taht said is it possible for me to get lucky, splitting and use at least 2 DMM Persist Buffs (divine power and swift haste)?

i could probably get away with making the enhancement bonus for mindblade/mind arrow liquid in the sense that it is just a total enhancement bonus that matters, not how they are allocated. So if i am supposed to have a +2 mind arrow with +2 enhancement bonus, i could use a mind arrow with +4 enhancement bonus or +1 mind arrow with +3 enhancement bonus

[Morcleon]

taht said is it possible for me to get lucky, splitting and use at least 2 DMM Persist Buffs (divine power and swift haste)?

Lucky is obtainable at Soulbow 2, being on that list of weapon enhancements. You can get splitting either by begging your DM, or taking Kensai.

[animewatcha]

A thought occurred as I remember someone mentioning a monk/soulknife/actavist build that had him shape his mind blade as his unarmed strike with one or more feats. I can't remember it exactly.

Rules shenanigans peoples. Can a soulbow be made via shaping mindblade as unarmed strike and 'twonging the arrows' a la visuals of 'monk with ring the golden bell feat'. Like in DBZ where people rapidly shoot the gazillion blasts every second that almost never works out as intended.

[Psyren]

Why Kensai? Pure Soulbow's enhancements don't cost anything, it's easier to qualify for on its own, and it gives you feats instead of taking them away. If it's BAB you're worried about just add 4 levels of fighter and you'll hit the magic number 16 BAB.


A thought occurred as I remember someone mentioning a monk/soulknife/actavist build that had him shape his mind blade as his unarmed strike with one or more feats. I can't remember it exactly.

Rules shenanigans peoples. Can a soulbow be made via shaping mindblade as unarmed strike and 'twonging the arrows' a la visuals of 'monk with ring the golden bell feat'. Like in DBZ where people rapidly shoot the gazillion blasts every second that almost never works out as intended.

You need a feat from Dragon Magazine for the "unarmed mind blade" trick to work. (At least in 3.5 - PF made it available as an archetype.)

[Morcleon]

Why Kensai? Pure Soulbow's enhancements don't cost anything, it's easier to qualify for on its own, and it gives you feats instead of taking them away. If it's BAB you're worried about just add 4 levels of fighter and you'll hit the magic number 16 BAB

Because Kensai lets you get splitting. :smallwink:

[SciChronic]

Why Kensai? Pure Soulbow's enhancements don't cost anything, it's easier to qualify for on its own, and it gives you feats instead of taking them away. If it's BAB you're worried about just add 4 levels of fighter and you'll hit the magic number 16 BAB.



You need a feat from Dragon Magazine for the "unarmed mind blade" trick to work. (At least in 3.5 - PF made it available as an archetype.)

First, soulbow and soulknife enhancements are late compared to what you should have at that level. Second the list you are allowed to use is much smaller than the total amount of melee/ranged enhancements that are available via core and splat books. Third, you are restricted in what kind of enhancement you are taking. Unless your DM rules otherwise you are restricted to making your arrows +1, +2, +3, etc. when it says so, rather than turning that bonus into an equivalent enhancement. As a rule, enhancement bonuses are better than +1 bonuses.

While that 3rd rule doesnt apply to me, the other 2 do.

Even if my DM opened up the enhancement list, i would need to be Soulknife 2/ Filler class X/ Soulbow 7, and without being human w/ able learner, that X would have to be at least 6, meaning i'm level 15 with a +4 weapon. and by WBL i should be able to have a +5 weapon.

-----

So a rough form of my build would be something like Cloistered Cleric 1/ Soulknife 2/ Filler X/ Soulbow 2/ Kensai 3/ Chameleon Y/ Swordsage 0-Z in no particular order

The goal would be able to abuse my Wis along with the +1 enhancement from soulbow to make them Lucky, while the +3 from kensai would make it Splitting. The combination of Cloistered Cleric and Chameleon would allow for DMM Persist of at least 2 buffs (Divine Power and Swift haste).

The issue is finding the perfect filler for opening up the class skills for Kensai along with some actual benefits.

[Lateral]

I've always been partial to thri-kreen soulbows. Arguably, you can MWF with your soulbow, ending up with something like sixteen attacks- each of which gets a free reroll from Lucky.

By the way, those rerolls? They're worth about +3 to +4 on each attack.

[Squiderking]

I think its sort of ambiguous RAW I've always thought a soulbow would work excellent with TWF...

[Morcleon]

I think its sort of ambiguous RAW I've always thought a soulbow would work excellent with TWF...

Soulbow works perfectly with TWF. An arrow takes one hand to make, and you can form as many arrows as you can fire. :smallsmile:

[Squiderking]

Well in that case...

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

(I'm pretty sure soulbows have to make little finger guns)

[Lateral]

Yeah, I've been meaning to try building a character that uses Soulbow and as many ways to get extra arms as possible (Thri-Kreen, Girallon Arms, Girallon's Blessing, etc.) to basically roll as many d20s as possible in a single round. The magic arrows might not be able to hit anything, but they would BLOT OUT THE SUN.

[animewatcha]

Well kensai will mean lawful which leaves out Flexible mind. Well can take human paragon class for a level or half-orc paragon class. They can do ride as class skill.

[Zombulian]

Well in that case...

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

(I'm pretty sure soulbows have to make little finger guns)

It's kinda a requirement.

[Morcleon]

Well kensai will mean lawful which leaves out Flexible mind. Well can take human paragon class for a level or half-orc paragon class. They can do ride as class skill.

Erm, that feat is not only meh, but can be actively detrimental at times. Radiating an aura just makes you that much easier to spot.

Or you could be a human, take Able Learner, and get all the skills! :smallbiggrin:

[SciChronic]

current idea for the filler to allow kensai is Human Paragon

Or you could be a human, take Able Learner, and get all the skills! :smallbiggrin:
i plan on going into chameleon, so able learner is a requirement

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yeah, I've been meaning to try building a character that uses Soulbow and as many ways to get extra arms as possible (Thri-Kreen, Girallon Arms, Girallon's Blessing, etc.) to basically roll as many d20s as possible in a single round. The magic arrows might not be able to hit anything, but they would BLOT OUT THE SUN.

Then we will fight in the shade.

[SciChronic]

@ Piggy Knowles, How are you achieving so many turn attempts per day?

[SciChronic]

Current build:
{table]Level|Class Levels|Feats|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will
1|Cloistered Cleric 1|Able Learner[Human], Point Blank Shot[CL1], Knowledge Devotion[C.Cleric 1], Extend Spell[Domain: Planning]|0|2|0|2
2|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 1|Weapon Focus(Mind Blade)[Soulknife1], Wild Talent[Soulknife 1]|0|2|2|4
3|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2|Zen Archery[CL3]|1|2|3|5
4|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 1|-|1|2|3|7
5|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 2|Combat Expertise[Human Paragon2]|2|2|3|8
6|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3|Persistent Spell[CL6]|3|3|4|8
7|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 1|Precise Shot[Soulbow 1]|3|3|6|10
8|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2|-|4|3|7|11
9|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 1|Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell)[CL9]|4|3(5)|7|11(13)
10|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2|Rapid Shot>Extra Turning>Woodland Archer>Martial Study>Any[Chameleon 2]|5|3(5)|7|11(13)
11|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 1|-|5|3(5)|7|13(15)
12|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 2|Rapid Shot[CL12]|6/1|3(5)|7|14(16)
13|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 2, Kensai 3|-|7/2|4(6)|8|14(16)
14|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 3, Kensai 3|-|8/3|5(7)|9|15(17)
15|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 4, Kensai 3|Extra Turning[CL15]|9/4|5(7)|9|15(17)
16|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 5, Kensai 3|-|9/4|5(9)|9|15(19)
17|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 6, Kensai 3|-|10/5|6(10)|10|16(20)
18|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3|Woodland Archer[CL18]|11/6/1|6(10)|12|18(22)
19|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3, Swordsage 1|-|11/6/1|6(10)|13|19(23)
20|Cloistered Cleric 1, Soulknife 2, Human Paragon 3, Soulbow 2, Chameleon 7, Kensai 3, Swordsage 2|-|12/7/2|6(10)|13|19(23)[/table]
While the BAB looks rather atrocious for a ranged martial-style fighter, there are special points to take note of:
-Zen archery makes your key attribute govern Attack and Damage for your mind arrows
-minor boosts are granted through point bland shot and weapon focus
-Lvl8 the enhancement bonus granted to your mind arrows should be Lucky. Since the bonus is granted to the ammunition and not the weapon(you mind?) you can reroll every single attack that misses once.
-Lvl9 Access to chameleon and DMM Persist allows persisting Swift Haste, allowing an extra attack (at this point 1 attack is now 2)
-Lvl10 Rapid Shot is aquired through the Floating Feat granted to Chameleons, allowing an extra attack (at this point 1 becomes 3, at a -2). this feat then becomes the next feat to be actually gained until level 18 where it becomes a floating feat for whatever you need.
-Lvl13 You can turn your mind arrow into Lucky Splitting Mind Arrows through the combination of your Soulbow and Kensai enhancements, you now have 8 arrows per round ([2(BAB)+1(haste)+1(rapid shot)]*2(splitting)) each of which can be rerolled due to Lucky.
-Lvl16 With a high enough wisdom score (which you should have) you have access to 4th level spells, meaning you can DMM Persist Divine Power, making BAB no longer an issue.

[Jon Everyman]

I gotta say, amidst all the archery bonuses the coolest thing for me is seeing the human paragon able learner chameleon all together. Master race, yo. :smallcool:

[SciChronic]

I gotta say, amidst all the archery bonuses the coolest thing for me is seeing the human paragon able learner chameleon all together. Master race, yo. :smallcool:

too bad there's overlap from able learning and adaptive learning, but the bonus stats and feat are too good to miss out on really. Add the fact that i can choose my skills, which means i can make sure i have the skill prereqs for PrCs.

So my main thing i'm worrying about it having enough turning attempts/day to fuel DMM Persist. I want to be able to persist at least Swift Haste and Divine Power, if i can do more, thats just icing on the cake at this point.

IF i take flaws i'm open to the option of just taking extra turning a couple more times, but i'm hoping for more options. I'm aware of nightsticks from LM, and i'm limiting myself to 1, as i don't believe they should stack. Theres also the Holy Reliquary Symbol that would allow me 2 more turning attempts. Theres also Eagle's Splendor which i could cast before using my DMM stuff for an additional 2 attempts.
We are using a 32 point-buy, so my stat spread is looking like 9 Str, 13 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 18 Wis, and 10 Cha, so that means i have 3 turn attempts naturally, and 8 from what i mentioned earlier without extra turning, this means i need to somehow come up with at least 3 more turning attempts, and i'm not sure how.

[Emperor Tippy]

Here is my preferred soulbow build:

Human, Cloistered Cleric (Knowledge, Planning, Trickery) 1/Soulknife 2/Ranger 2/Soulbow 2/Chameleon 10/Swordsage 2/Warblade 1

PROGRESSION:

1. Cloistered Cleric1- Point Blank Shot, Able Learner, Knowledge Devotion, Extend Spell
2. Soulknife1- Weapon Focus (mind blade), Hidden Talent (psionic minor creation)
Hidden Talent can only be taken at first level and the Soulknife class only gives you Wild Talent. A good house rule to let HT replace WT but RAW it doesn't work.


NOTE: If your DM allows flaws, feat-granting magical locations, or allows you to use items to meet prestige class requirements, you can drop Warblade for Shiba Protector from OA. You lose out on White Raven Tactics, but the gains are more than worth it - double Wisdom to both attack and damage is quite nice.
Where are you getting double Wis to damage from? Zen Archery covers the double attack when combined with Shiba Protector but where does the second Wis to damage come from?

[SciChronic]

Hidden Talent can only be taken at first level and the Soulknife class only gives you Wild Talent. A good house rule to let HT replace WT but RAW it doesn't work.

theres errata for PHB2 that features the variant


Hidden Talent
Your psionic talent is strong enough to manifest a single power
Level: 1st
replaces: Wild Talent class ability
Benefit: You gain the Hidden Talent feat instead of the Wild Talent feat at 1st level (see Expanded Psionic Handbook, page 67). You gain 2 psionic power points, can now learn any psionic feat for which you meet the prerequisites, can expend you psionic focus, and can gain a single 1st level power from any list.
Special: Normally the Hidden Talent feat can only be taken once at 1st level, but a soulknife with this class ability can take this feat multiple times, each time gaining an additional 2 psionic power points and another 1st level power.
I'm not sure if that is supposed to be Errata for the PHB2, or was just an article that was attached to the pdf i have.

[Emperor Tippy]

theres errata for PHB2 that features the variant

I'm not sure if that is supposed to be Errata for the PHB2, or was just an article that was attached to the pdf i have.

No, found it. It's Minds Eye
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a

[SciChronic]

With that out of the way, Tippy, do you have any ideas on how to increase my Turn attempts per day? Right now i'm looking at +8 from nightstick, eagle's splendor, and reliquary holy symbol. Its looking like my cha will be 10 so i'm at 3 turns there. I'mt tying to achieve 14 turns without need for Extra turning.

[Piggy Knowles]

@ Piggy Knowles, How are you achieving so many turn attempts per day?

Chameleon gets Mimic Class Feature up to 3/day. Each use is potentially another turning pool. So, with a 10 Cha and Extra Turning, that's 7 turn attempts from cloistered cleric and 7 from each usage of Mimic Class Feature.


Where are you getting double Wis to damage from? Zen Archery covers the double attack when combined with Shiba Protector but where does the second Wis to damage come from?

Double Wisdom damage comes from the fact that mind arrows deal 1d8+Wis.


Hidden Talent can only be taken at first level and the Soulknife class only gives you Wild Talent. A good house rule to let HT replace WT but RAW it doesn't work.

As mentioned, Hidden Talent is being picked up via the Mind's Eye ACF for soulknives.

[SciChronic]

So what do you guys think of the build? my one dislike is how long it take for the build to hit its stride.

It takes until level 7 just to set up the base chassis, and doesnt quite pick up until levels 9-10.

That being said, the power on this build i am quite proud of. with 40 Wis(18 +2 h.paragon +4 chameleon +5 Levels +6 periapt +5 tome) you are dealing 1d8+15 damage with each arrow, and every round you can shoot up to 12 of them, all misses get rerolls. If you miss, all subsequent arrows get a +4 to hit (which was already at +36). If you beat concealment once, you beat it for the rest of the round. If i include flaws, i can fit in more DMM Persist spells.

How do you think i could improve this build?
atm i'm thinking dropping a class level someone for Shiba Protector

[Piggy Knowles]

At 7 levels of Chameleon you're just high enough to cast Owl's Insight. Combine with a karma prayer bead for +9 to Wisdom. Also, don't forget about Double Aptitude - 5th-level arcane spells from any list on top of all that is pretty nice, or if you don't have the necessary Int to cast, you could take Combat Focus for a flat +4 to attack, damage and Fort saves.

Human Paragon is nice but it does delay your progression a bit. If you are allowed flaws, or you can use items to meet feat qualifications, you can drop a level there. That could mean fitting in a level of Shiba Protector.

Check with your DM how the ranger archery spells in Spell Compendium and Champions of Ruin interact with your mind arrows. They require a masterwork arrow to be used, but since your mind arrows are magical, they may count. If so, a couple of them are nice when combined with your high Wisdom. For example, Bloodfreeze Arrow means that you're dealing +2d6 bonus damage and forcing a DC 39 save versus paralysis (or more if you have Owl's Insight up). Brilliant Energy Arrow can be nice against high-AC foes. Spellslayer Arrow deals an extra 1d4 points of damage per spell effect that the target has on them, which can add up against heavily buffed enemies (although why a heavily buffed enemy isn't flat-out immune to ranged attacks is anyone's guess...). They aren't game breaking, but they're all swift or immediate actions, so they're nice extra effects when necessary. You should have a good number of bonus spells thanks to your 40+ Wisdom.

Again, if the Mind's Eye ACF is allowed, Hidden Talent is a strict power-up from Wild Talent and should definitely be taken. Even if PMC isn't your bag (while still an insanely versatile power, it's less useful for the soulbow archer than the standard archer, since you can't use it to poison your arrows), there are other handy level 1 powers you can take.