I Need a Stealth Game

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I just finished Dishonored for the third time. Thief comes some time next year, but I can't wait that long for my stealth-'em-up fix. I need something now or I'll tear my own face off.

Should I try the original Thief trilogy? I've heard they haven't aged well. Assassin's creed, maybe? Or Deus Ex: Human Revolution? The very latter doesn't really appeal to be because of its premise and aesthetic (I almost never enjoy science fiction that isn't really old), but I would check it out if the stealthing is good enough.

[The Rose Dragon]

Maybe it's because I played on the middle difficulty setting, rather than the hardest, but playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution as a stealthy pacifist is more about patience and lots of reloading than a lot of skill.

I hear Mark of the Ninja is quite good at stealth, despite being a 2D platformer. Maybe you should give it a try.

[Axolotl]

Should I try the original Thief trilogy? I've heard they haven't aged well. You heard wrong. The graphics of the first two are very much of their era but they're still easily the best stealth games ever made. If you like Dishonoured you'll love Thief.

Besides if you play them now you'll be just ready to get all outraged when Thi4f comes out.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

You heard wrong. The graphics of the first two are very much of their era but they're still easily the best stealth games ever made. If you like Dishonoured you'll love Thief.

Besides if you play them now you'll be just ready to get all outraged when Thi4f comes out.

There is an idiotic grin plastered across my face right now. Shall I start with Thief: the Dark Project, or something more recent?

[Axolotl]

There is an idiotic grin plastered across my face right now. Shall I start with Thief: the Dark Project, or something more recent?Start with Thief Gold if you can the extra missions are quite fun, the Mage's Towers are especially good. There's a few issues they have with modern PCs that you should check up on and they don't hold your hands much, which I know sounds all hard-core but some of the bonus treasures you're asked to find are just hidden obnoxiously on a couple of levels.

It'll take a couple of levels to get used to the graphics and controls but trust me get through them and the atmosphere, gameplay and sheer inventiveness will suck you in like nothing since 2004.

[Raimun]

Human Revolution is kind of fun. While there are different solutions to each level and each situation, it's still a good idea to get some combat skills/equipment. If you like cyborgs, you'll like this one. 2

Assassin's Creed is not bad. It will eventually start to repeat itself and Desmond should not exist but it has its moments. Truth be told, I've only played the second one.

Batman: Arkham city is cool. Now, it's not a 100% stealth game but I really liked the stealth action it has. Besides, you're playing as Batman. What more can you want?

Metal Gear Solid. Duh. I just listed this just in case. If you like stealth but haven't played MGS... you should. Truth be told, the stealth action of the series hit its stride at the second game.

Tenchu 2: The birth of Stealth Assassins. Yeah, it's old but it's the best ninja game I've ever played. Ninja as in a stealthy killer who does missions for his feudal lord. The rest of the series is kind of forgettable.

Hitman. I've only played the second one but it's different from other stealth games and so fun. Fugu fun.

Second Sight. Stealth and psychic powers. It's almost like playing Psycho Mantis.

[Tebryn]

Why hasn't Mark of the Ninja not been mentioned? Mark of the Ninja is probably the greatest stealth game put out in recent years. Cheaper than almost all the other games mentioned so far. Goes on sale often as well.

[Raimun]

Why hasn't Mark of the Ninja not been mentioned? Mark of the Ninja is probably the greatest stealth game put out in recent years. Cheaper than almost all the other games mentioned so far. Goes on sale often as well.

It was mentioned.

[Logic]

It was mentioned.

Not only was it mentioned, it was in the first reply, a mere 9 minutes after the original post.

[Axolotl]

Not only was it mentioned, it was in the first reply, a mere 9 minutes after the original post.Yet like a true stealth master, it went by unnoticed.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3/NV can be turned into stealth games with proper mods, should you choose to play them this way. There are a significant number of mods that rework stealth (usually in line with more traditional "pure" stealth games), as well as add "thief's arsenal" type items.

[Kitten Champion]

The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay was highly underrated, mixed stealth with action. It's worth a try, if you can find it.

Oh, Metro: Last Light has a lot of stealth gameplay as well.

[Cespenar]

Weirdly, I've found the stealth in Far Cry 3 to be one of the best in recent games. It's very fun to clear out camps with just your bow and close-combat takedowns. And you can actually hide in shrubbery! It's one of very few games in existence that you can actually hide in tall grass, bushes, etc. without them being especially configured as "hiding places".

Also, give Alpha Protocol a try, I guess. The game has its quirks, but a stealth/takedown build was pretty fun to play.

Playing a stealthy character in Skyrim can be very enjoyable as well. Add in some stealth mods at your leisure.

[Tebryn]

Yet like a true stealth master, it went by unnoticed.

That it did. Whoops. Then consider it seconded.

[factotum]

Also, give Alpha Protocol a try, I guess. The game has its quirks, but a stealth/takedown build was pretty fun to play.


The major problem with Alpha Protocol was that every guard within a mile seemed to know your exact location the second you set off an alarm--it wasn't like Far Cry 3 or Thief, where you could run away and hide and the guards would eventually lose you. It is a fun game, don't get me wrong, I just think it's not a very good stealth game.

Anyway, I'll echo the original replies: play the original Thief trilogy, in order, starting with Gold. Thief 3 may not be a patch on the earlier games but it's still head and shoulders above a lot of modern stealth games, plus it contains possibly the scariest level ever consigned to a video game (Shalebridge Cradle).

[Closet_Skeleton]

plus it contains possibly the scariest level ever consigned to a video game (Shalebridge Cradle).

Meh, no part of the Shalebridge Cradle scared me more than whenever I encountered anything undead in Thief 2. Made all the worse by the fact that since unlike the first game they're optional and tucked away the game doesn't need to tell you how to deal with them so I never found out if they could actually be defeated. Those horrible monkeys that turn up on one level terrified me too, even if I managed to kill a few after much reloading.

You have a re-assuring voice talking to you for most of Shalebridge, its not that bad. Shalebridge is tense and nerve wracking, but every level of a stealth game should be like that, regardless of whether or not its trying to scare me.

[Kyberwulf]

"Despite" Being a 2d platformer? I find your wording to be most disturbing. 2D platformers are better then most "3d games".

Sorry, I had to say that.

Mark of the Ninja is a pretty good game. It got my brother playing, and he doesn't usually like ninja games. I swear that boy is adopted.

[The Rose Dragon]

"Despite" Being a 2d platformer? I find your wording to be most disturbing. 2D platformers are better then most "3d games".

Despite, yes. I doubt it is easy to make the stealth elements work well in a 2D game. If it works well, that's good. But as stealth games are dependent on senses, and as 3D games are closer to our way of sensing things, stealth in 3D games are easier to make intuitive.

[factotum]

You have a re-assuring voice talking to you for most of Shalebridge, its not that bad. Shalebridge is tense and nerve wracking, but every level of a stealth game should be like that, regardless of whether or not its trying to scare me.

I'm just going by my own experience--as a general rule, no matter how immersive the game is, I never get scared. Amnesia: The Dark Descent? Easy, never got frightened once playing it. Shalebridge Cradle? It's the only time I have ever actually been scared playing a video game!

[GolemsVoice]

Metro: Last Light is actually a pretty decent stealth game, or at least, the stealth portions are. Unlike, say, Thief, stealth isn't the main thing however. If you want to go in guns blazing, that can work, too.

[mangosta71]

The major problem with Alpha Protocol was that every guard within a mile seemed to know your exact location the second you set off an alarm--it wasn't like Far Cry 3 or Thief, where you could run away and hide and the guards would eventually lose you. It is a fun game, don't get me wrong, I just think it's not a very good stealth game.
Most of the alarms are triggered by guards that presumably have radios and thus can tell their buddies exactly where you are, so if an alarm goes off you're stealthing wrong. Besides which, given that enemies pretty much only spawn when you arrive at certain checkpoints, the only ones responding to an alarm are the few in the immediate vicinity of the alarm that you've set off. Any that you encounter after that could be reasonably assumed to be responding to the alarm (or at least at a higher level of alertness - after all, the alarm only goes off when there's something going on that they're being paid to deal with so they'll be paying attention - they see movement and they call their buddies on their radios). Since AP takes place in a series of fairly small areas rather than a sandbox you can't run far enough away that they'll give up the chase. And since the NPCs are members of organizations that get involved in shady dealings it's not reasonable for them to assume that an interloper is just some random guy that got scared off when he saw guards.

TL;DR: Alpha Protocol is a perfectly good stealth game. And it has phenomenal role-playing on top of that.

[Joran]

I hear Mark of the Ninja is quite good at stealth, despite being a 2D platformer. Maybe you should give it a try.

In a similar vein, Gunpoint (http://www.gunpointgame.com/) is getting good reviews.

[VanBuren]

Most of the alarms are triggered by guards that presumably have radios and thus can tell their buddies exactly where you are, so if an alarm goes off you're stealthing wrong. Besides which, given that enemies pretty much only spawn when you arrive at certain checkpoints, the only ones responding to an alarm are the few in the immediate vicinity of the alarm that you've set off. Any that you encounter after that could be reasonably assumed to be responding to the alarm (or at least at a higher level of alertness - after all, the alarm only goes off when there's something going on that they're being paid to deal with so they'll be paying attention - they see movement and they call their buddies on their radios). Since AP takes place in a series of fairly small areas rather than a sandbox you can't run far enough away that they'll give up the chase. And since the NPCs are members of organizations that get involved in shady dealings it's not reasonable for them to assume that an interloper is just some random guy that got scared off when he saw guards.

TL;DR: Alpha Protocol is a perfectly good stealth game. And it has phenomenal role-playing on top of that.

Alpha Protocol's roleplaying is phenomenal. It is, also, the only part of the game I would consider good.

[factotum]

Most of the alarms are triggered by guards that presumably have radios and thus can tell their buddies exactly where you are, so if an alarm goes off you're stealthing wrong.

Stealthing wrong? It's a game where you have no clue as to what the line-of-sight of cameras is, no indication of how hidden you are or how much noise you're making, no concept of hiding in shadowy areas--it gives you literally no feedback at all as to how close you are to being discovered. I'm sorry, but that makes it a bad stealth game, because trial and error is pretty much the only way to make it through stealthily.

[Mx.Silver]

+1 for the Thief games.

Alpha Protocol's stealth mechanics aren't great. If you're going to play the game, it's better to do so if you're interested in seeing how it handles decisions and consequence, which it handles in a way very few, if any, other games have been able to match.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is good on the action-stealth side of things (outside of the Boss Fights). It also does 'non-lethal action' very well, if you want to go that route (again, not counting the boss fights). The Original Deus Ex had a decent amount of stealth too, although the non-lethal approach is less well-developed (as is the hacking).

In terms of non-RPGs, Splinter Cell is meant to have some good entries in that sort of vein too. Hitman 3 is usually rated quite highly too. There's the Metal Gear Solid games, if you have a high tolerance for cutscenes, although I haven't played them enough to vouch for them.

The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay was highly underrated, mixed stealth with action. It's worth a try, if you can find it.


An HD version of it was included with it's sequel, Assault on Dark Athena, which may be easier to find. I think GOG.com have it, along with the Thief games and Deus Ex.

[mangosta71]

Stealthing wrong? It's a game where you have no clue as to what the line-of-sight of cameras is, no indication of how hidden you are or how much noise you're making, no concept of hiding in shadowy areas--it gives you literally no feedback at all as to how close you are to being discovered. I'm sorry, but that makes it a bad stealth game, because trial and error is pretty much the only way to make it through stealthily.
Cameras have a big green field showing you exactly where they're pointing. If an enemy is looking at you, odds are good that he can see you (and I don't get why that's a problem unless you're used to the "WoW stealth" mechanic which is essentially toggled invisibility). Enemies without night-vision goggles have to be right on top of you to see you if you're standing still in a dark/shadowy area, and there are always corners to slip around to block their line of sight. And if you think you got no feedback as to how close you are to being discovered, you didn't invest in the stealth tree at all - Awareness is literally the first stealth skill you get, and it tells you exactly how many other people are around and their level of alertness. Upgrading it to passive and constant is low enough that you don't even have to specialize in stealth to get it.

If you expect to run through with guns blazing and never have your enemies spot you, you have unrealistic expectations of a stealth game unless the AI is just appallingly bad. Stealth in AP is about slipping around corners, waiting for your enemies to turn their backs, and quietly slitting their throats. It's all about knowing where your enemies are and what they're doing, finding the patterns in their movements, and exploiting their complacency. It's about patience.

[Ebon_Drake]

In terms of non-RPGs, Splinter Cell is meant to have some good entries in that sort of vein too. Hitman 3 is usually rated quite highly too. There's the Metal Gear Solid games, if you have a high tolerance for cutscenes, although I haven't played them enough to vouch for them.


Hitman: Blood Money (technically Hitman 4) is generally considered the best in the series. Hitman: Codename 47 (Hitman 1, PC only) is quite a mixed bag in terms of quality and mechanics and is only really worth playing for hardcore fans. Hitman 2 is very good and easily the longest game in the series. Hitman: Contracts (Hitman 3) is a partial remake of Codename 47 - not all the missions are re-made, but some excellent unique missions are added. It has a decently creepy atmosphere but isn't really a classic.

The most recent game, Hitman: Absolution, is a base-breaker. It has more of an Assassin's Creed feel to it and has far less freedom in missions which has led a lot of long-term fans to criticize it, but it's pretty good at what it does so if you like Assassin's Creed style games then it could be worth a go.

[Morph Bark]

Stealth Bastards sounds like it'd be right up your alley. It's faster-paced than most though.

[WalkingTarget]

In a similar vein, Gunpoint (http://www.gunpointgame.com/) is getting good reviews.

I've been playing it the last few days (I'd been waiting for it to come out for a while). I like it quite a bit. However, while there is a stealth element to it (you really have to avoid the guards spotting you since they shoot on sight and don't miss from what I've experienced - although there is a gadget you can get that will make them miss sometimes), it's a lot more like a puzzle game in my experience so far. The gimmick of rewiring the building so that the guard behavior opens doors (or triggers other events) for you is the main mechanic as far as I can tell so far. You can get mission bonuses for low-levels of violence and not being spotted at all, though.

Jumping really high to fall through three skylights and land on a guard is pretty fun, though.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I've been playing Thief: the Dark Project. Its pretty good, but I do have some complaints.

Pros:

Very solid story.
Well developed setting.
Often quite tense - even scary.
Serviceable mechanics.


Cons:

Awkward controls.
Slightly confusing stealth mechanic.
The weapons feel wrong.
Some of the comedy isn't funny.
Can get kind of frustrating.

[Feytalist]

The Thief series is still one of my favourite game series.

As to the weapons feeling wrong, I remember thinking much the same thing when I first played it. It helps to remember that the weapons, for the most part, should be used only as a last resort. The sword in particular is supposed to feel ungainly (it certainly helps with immersiveness). The bow does take some getting used to.

One tip I can give: put your sound as loud as you feel comfortable with. It's one game where the sound is an integral part of the gameplay. Will also help with the stealthing.

Also, Thief is known for being frustrating. But in a good way. Until you break your keyboard, at least. Heh.

[Mx.Silver]

Also, Thief is known for being frustrating. But in a good way.
Spoken like a man who has never had to watch Garrett miss the rope arrow you're trying to get him to catch onto and instead bounce off the wall behind it and plummet to his death multiple times. Oh Lost City, why were you put in this game?






Slightly confusing stealth mechanic.
The weapons feel wrong.

What's confusing you about the stealth? I actually found it fairly straightforward, stay in shadows, make as little noise as possible (edging forwards helps). It does help a lot if you play it while wearing headphones, as the game relies a lot on audio cues as indication.

The weapons, yeah. That's just going to be awkward (although I do like how it handles bow-mechanics, as most arrows actually arc). Swordfighting is never going to be fun, and is probably something you're best off avoiding wherever possible (which sadly isn't all the time).



Hitman: Blood Money (technically Hitman 4) is generally considered the best in the series. Hitman: Codename 47 (Hitman 1, PC only) is quite a mixed bag in terms of quality and mechanics and is only really worth playing for hardcore fans. Hitman 2 is very good and easily the longest game in the series. Hitman: Contracts (Hitman 3) is a partial remake of Codename 47 - not all the missions are re-made, but some excellent unique missions are added. It has a decently creepy atmosphere but isn't really a classic.
Ah I see, I'd assumed Blood Money was the third, rather than fourth. It's not a series I'm all that familiar with.




Stealth in AP is about slipping around corners, waiting for your enemies to turn their backs, and quietly slitting their throats. It's all about knowing where your enemies are and what they're doing, finding the patterns in their movements, and exploiting their complacency. It's about patience.
Actually, after a while I found Stealth in AP is more about activating shadow operative and punching small groups of enemies into unconsciousness one-at-a-time, while the ones you haven't gotten around to KO-ing yet stand around looking mildly confused.
There's also no real indication of how far away enemies are and still draw line-of-sight to you, which is problematic, because at distance it becomes very difficult to judge where exactly enemies are facing (the actual UI indicators are annoyingly unclear on this at times, any at the earlier levels you don't even reliably have those).
My problem with Alpha Protocol's stealth isn't that it's hard as it's not, just that it's inelegant and rather arbitrary. This is similar to its combat mechanics, really (especially the cover system).

[Ebon_Drake]

Ah I see, I'd assumed Blood Money was the third, rather than fourth. It's not a series I'm all that familiar with.

I thought that might be the case, Contracts is fairly obscure. I'm rather fond of it though, The Meat King's Party and Beldingford Manor are amongst the best levels in the entire series. If it can be found cheap then I would recommend it.

[GloatingSwine]

People are saying The Last of Us has good sneaking (as in: you need to do sneaking because resources are scarce and fighting is bad for you).

[Axolotl]

A quick tip for swordfighting in Thief, although you shouldn't really need to use it. If you run past an enemy it generally takes them between 2 and 3 hours to turn around giving them plenty of time to whale on them before they can block or counter, this works even against huge groups of guys.

Although it doesn't work on non-humans sadly.

[The Rose Dragon]

People are saying The Last of Us has good sneaking (as in: you need to do sneaking because resources are scarce and fighting is bad for you).

Downsides include being a PS3 exclusive (which doesn't affect me, but does affect a lot of people) and not actually being released for another week.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Downsides include being a PS3 exclusive (which doesn't affect me, but does affect a lot of people) and not actually being released for another week.

Ah. I have a zero percent chance of playing anything on something other than a Windows PC or an iPad.

[factotum]

If you expect to run through with guns blazing and never have your enemies spot you, you have unrealistic expectations of a stealth game unless the AI is just appallingly bad.

No, I don't have that expectation, thank you very much. I've played the Thief series, so I know what a decent stealth game is, and Alpha Protocol is not that! It just seemed to me that enemies were able to spot me far too easily (the lack of indication you were hidden not helping there), plus the level design often seemed set up so there was only one possible route to take and you would always get seen taking that route...that happened in the very first mission, where the only way I could find to get from one half of the base to the other required passing right in front of a machine gun with the guard facing you. Plus, of course, it had the one thing which is guaranteed to kill a stealth game above all other things--the boss fights where stealth was entirely useless. (The skill that allowed you to queue up a whole bunch of shots with your pistol and take the boss out in one move came in incredibly useful there!).

As I said before, Alpha Protocol is by no means a *bad* game, but you can't even lump it in the same league as most of the other titles mentioned in this thread as far as its stealth mechanics go.

[Feytalist]

Spoken like a man who has never had to watch Garrett miss the rope arrow you're trying to get him to catch onto and instead bounce off the wall behind it and plummet to his death multiple times. Oh Lost City, why were you put in this game?

Oh, I have. Many times. I guess at the time I was ready so smash my screen, but the mist of nostalgia blurs everything into a pleasant memory.

Also, Lost City is an awesome location. I got lost so much in there.

[Jayngfet]

Weirdly, I've found the stealth in Far Cry 3 to be one of the best in recent games. It's very fun to clear out camps with just your bow and close-combat takedowns. And you can actually hide in shrubbery! It's one of very few games in existence that you can actually hide in tall grass, bushes, etc. without them being especially configured as "hiding places".

Also, give Alpha Protocol a try, I guess. The game has its quirks, but a stealth/takedown build was pretty fun to play.

Playing a stealthy character in Skyrim can be very enjoyable as well. Add in some stealth mods at your leisure.

Being Stealthy Archer in Far Cry 3 is indeed very fun. It's great with the bow, since with a couple of trick shots you can turn an entire enemy camp into a flaming nightmare full of hungry bears.


Skyrim though has questionable vanilla stealth. At early levels enemies can hear you INSTANTLY, and at late levels you can tapdance in front of them with no problems. Archery is underpowered and unlike Fallout, you can't really disguise yourself in any way. It's more fun if you can get some good mods(throwing weapons are a must, disguises are good depending on the mod), but like a whole lot, Vanilla Skyrim is only really good conceptually.

[Morph Bark]

On the subject of Metal Gear Solid, as it was mentioned earlier: I've played only the first two (Twin Snakes remake for the first), and they're really, really good. You need to keep in mind though, that it's half stealth game, half action game, rather than fully stealth, and all the boss battles are generally fully action-y, save for a few, but in those stealth is absolutely necessary.

MGS3, from what I've heard, is pretty good too, but more in a Sean Connery Bond sense mixed with Rambo, and thus differs a bit in tone from the previous two. MGS4 is more of an interactive movie than a game. Can't speak for Revengeance, but AFAIK, it's 0 stealth.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Being Stealthy Archer in Far Cry 3 is indeed very fun. It's great with the bow, since with a couple of trick shots you can turn an entire enemy camp into a flaming nightmare full of hungry bears.


Skyrim though has questionable vanilla stealth. At early levels enemies can hear you INSTANTLY, and at late levels you can tapdance in front of them with no problems. Archery is underpowered and unlike Fallout, you can't really disguise yourself in any way. It's more fun if you can get some good mods(throwing weapons are a must, disguises are good depending on the mod), but like a whole lot, Vanilla Skyrim is only really good conceptually.
I actually found Fallout: New Vegas and Oblivion to have the best (vanilla) stealth.

[Jayngfet]

I actually found Fallout: New Vegas and Oblivion to have the best (vanilla) stealth.

I feel Oblivion's stealth was only better due to superior level design. Skyrim's dungeons were all kinda bland and samey. Oblivion may have reused a few aesthetics but things were more varied in general. You could hide behind corners, snipe from ledges, drop down from overhead bridges, and generally have a greater number of options. With enemies camped out, things were open enough for you to at least pick your method of dealing with them.

Skyrim was mostly just linear corridors, with the occasional overhead bridge you couldn't access until all the enemies were dead anyway. After a while you usually just either perma-sneak in dungeons, or in enemy forts you find the one obvious "stealthy entrance" that's a gaping security flaw and totally unguarded, like a hole in their wall or a sewer pipe you could practically walk right in through.

Don't get me wrong, both games had some major stealth flaws, but in terms of actual level design Oblivion pretty much always pulls ahead for me(now if only it's combat system was also favorable).

[The Rose Dragon]

MGS3, from what I've heard, is pretty good too, but more in a Sean Connery Bond sense mixed with Rambo, and thus differs a bit in tone from the previous two. MGS4 is more of an interactive movie than a game. Can't speak for Revengeance, but AFAIK, it's 0 stealth.

To be honest, the stealth in MGS3 and MGS4 is better than the stealth in the first two games.

And while for most players, Revengeance's stealth elements are optional (yes, they do exist), you need to make use of them to get 100% completion. Otherwise, you can finish even Revengeance difficulty without any use of stealth at all.

[thubby]

the older metal gears were good.
i have no experience with the gen 7 titles.

[The Succubus]

Monaco and Stealth B*stard are good stealth games, if a little simplistic. =)

[Kyberwulf]

One thing that bugged me, about the MGS games. During boss fights, no guards ever came. Out of the boss fights, you alerted the guards and the whole armada of guards would come for you. During boss fights, and after usually, you had a free pass to not get attacked.

[mangosta71]

the level design often seemed set up so there was only one possible route to take and you would always get seen taking that route...that happened in the very first mission, where the only way I could find to get from one half of the base to the other required passing right in front of a machine gun with the guard facing you.
I assume this refers to bugging the airport in Saudi Arabia. Probably not the guy with the machine gun emplacement at the beginning, but there are two others later, and there's not an easy way to slip around and stab them in the back like the first one. If you've invested in stealth and pistols and have a silencer, you can headshot them from cover before they see you without alerting anyone else to your presence. Otherwise, the noisemaker gadget is great for providing distractions so you can get close.

Plus, of course, it had the one thing which is guaranteed to kill a stealth game above all other things--the boss fights where stealth was entirely useless. (The skill that allowed you to queue up a whole bunch of shots with your pistol and take the boss out in one move came in incredibly useful there!).
I was able to find ways to use stealth against all of the bosses except the tank in SA. If you can break LoS with a pillar of some type, Shadow Operative lets you sprint to another location and, assuming you stay in cover, the enemies (even the bosses) won't be able to find you until you pop up again. The way the boss in Taiwan fights, the only thing that kept me from slitting his throat from behind is that the game doesn't allow you to do that - it's actually kind of funny how he stalks up and down the corridor trying to taunt you into coming out, and then you slip out from behind a pillar and unload your shotgun (yes, I know, shotguns are terrible in the game, but there's a certain visceral satisfaction in using them occasionally) into the back of his head. In Moscow, the boss returns to his little stage platform any time he loses track of you, and he paces back and forth until he sees you again - you can exploit his timing to get onto the platform right behind him and, again, blast him in the back of the head. The bosses on the last island and Rome are harder to do this because they keep calling more guards in, but popping them from hiding is doable because there's so much cover in both areas.

Anyway, another game that you can do a stealth playthrough is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. Though, again, there are a couple big fights that you can't stealth through.

[thubby]

One thing that bugged me, about the MGS games. During boss fights, no guards ever came. Out of the boss fights, you alerted the guards and the whole armada of guards would come for you. During boss fights, and after usually, you had a free pass to not get attacked.

if your boss is a vampire, a women who deflect bullets, or a trigger happy cyborg, do you really want to go anywhere near anything that could kill them?

better yet, do you want to be around them at all, ever?

[Geno9999]

Not to get this all off topic, but why is this in the Media Discussions thread instead of Gaming (Other)?

[Mx.Silver]

Oh, I have. Many times. I guess at the time I was ready so smash my screen, but the mist of nostalgia blurs everything into a pleasant memory.

Also, Lost City is an awesome location. I got lost so much in there.

While I don't share your appreciation for it, I'll concede it didn't annoy me as much as Return to the Cathedral.



(yes, I know, shotguns are terrible in the game, but there's a certain visceral satisfaction in using them occasionally)

Hey, it could be worse. You could be using the SMGs.

[Raimun]

On the subject of Metal Gear Solid, as it was mentioned earlier: I've played only the first two (Twin Snakes remake for the first), and they're really, really good. You need to keep in mind though, that it's half stealth game, half action game, rather than fully stealth, and all the boss battles are generally fully action-y, save for a few, but in those stealth is absolutely necessary.


From Normal difficulty onward, you need to hide behind any available cover to survive the boss fights. Also, like you said, some fights are actual "stealth fights", where both you and the boss (not only The Boss) try to remain hidden. But yeah, they're still the most action packed portions of the game.



MGS3, from what I've heard, is pretty good too, but more in a Sean Connery Bond sense mixed with Rambo, and thus differs a bit in tone from the previous two. MGS4 is more of an interactive movie than a game. Can't speak for Revengeance, but AFAIK, it's 0 stealth.

3 is a stealth game all right. It certainly has its own tone, since you also have to worry about survival. I'd actually say this one has the most amount of stealth action in the entire series.

4 has long cut scenes, yes. Still, 4 has more gameplay than 2, which has the worst ratio of "gameplay to cutscenes" in the entire series.


One thing that bugged me, about the MGS games. During boss fights, no guards ever came. Out of the boss fights, you alerted the guards and the whole armada of guards would come for you. During boss fights, and after usually, you had a free pass to not get attacked.

As has been mentioned, most of the fights are so lethal and weird, that poor normal soldiers most likely don't want to be anywhere near them.

Some are fought in pretty remote locations so they couldn't reach them or wouldn't even know the fight is taking place.

4 actually has several boss battles where the mooks are actually there to help the boss monsters... and yes, they be monsters.

Finally, there's the issue of pride. Playable characters and the bosses are all legendary soldiers. They're the guys who eat green berets for breakfast and austrian body builders for lunch. They're the best of the best of the best of their speciality and many want to test their skills against the most legendary soldier of them all: the playable character. Or This Time It's Personal. In fact, in 3...

... When Snake encounters Ocelot the third time, Ocelot has a group of his highly loyal GRU-soldiers with him. They ambush Snake and what does Ocelot do? He orders his men to stay on the sidelines and keep from interfering. When Ocelot starts to lose, some of his men do the sensible thing and start to shoot Snake. Ocelot tells them to f**k off again.