Urgent Help :S

[kimfu]

Well the thing is, we are about to fight a Pit Fiend, overwhelmingly strong opponent, and... we're lvl's 5, 6 and 7.

We have a shifter druid.
Necromancer Wizard.
2 Bow Fighters.
and a Sorcerer. (Pending ._.)


Anyone have any tips on how to proceed??

The story goes something like this.
We were in a fortress beneath a frozen lake. We took down some frost salamanders, and then we followed a path of magical presence.

We encountered a couple of barbed devils. Took them down, and then a Bone Devil called to us, telling us to give our souls without a fight, or struggle a painful death, our boss is coming. One of our fighters (the only one who understood the Bone Devil) went ahead and told him "We are not afraid, bring it on". So, here comes the big boss, a Mighty Pit Fiend, he takes us to another plane or dimension (hell) and there we ended our little slaughter fest.

So anyone knows if we actually have an opportunity against a foe of this level?? If so, any advice on how to go against him :smalleek:???

[Xervous]

Klickety Klack, Klickety Klack goes the Rail Road Track.

The DM's got something planned for you, and it looks like you don't have much of a choice.

[Togath]

Could it be the gm intends to either restart the campaign with the players as undead?
and aye, definitely railroading

[Slipperychicken]

No, by the rules, you don't have a chance.

Maybe you're supposed to be beaten, then do work for Hell?

Strange that you would accept a fight against a Pit Fiend. The wiser option would have been to run and fight another day.


Question: Were you allowed a save to go to Hell? If not, this is massive railroading.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, assume the DM is going to softball the pit fiend. It can one-shot party members, and possibly all of you in one go, with blasphemy. As I recall, the only protection against this is being evil, or having spell resistance?

And the melee story is worse. It can probably take enough Power Attack to slaughter any one of you in one round, and still not have to worry much about missing (the beauty of natural attacks).

Pit fiend is the big bad of big bad devils. It must be some kind of plot point, or Deus Ex Machina, cause you don't realistically stand a chance.

As far as tactics go, don't group together is the best you can hope for. Make it at least run about in between dismembering individual party members.

[Ignominia]

Yeah, railroading aside, your screwed.

Phelix-Mu took the words right outta my mouth... Deus-Ex-Machina or bust.

[Elderand]

Is it so hard to conceive that sometimes the best option is to hightail it ?
I blame the 3rd edition mentality of every fight as a somewhat fair chance of being won.

I just have to cite gandalf on this one. This foe is beyond any of you, run !

[Phelix-Mu]

Isn't the pit fiend packing those Quicken SLAs, too? I mean, it might not even take a full round.

What are the alignments of the party members?

[Slipperychicken]

Is it so hard to conceive that sometimes the best option is to hightail it ?

True heroes never run from anything! They always rush into a pointless meat-grinder and die gloriously!

GIVE ME XP, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!! :furious:

[eggynack]

Well, assume the DM is going to softball the pit fiend. It can one-shot party members, and possibly all of you in one go, with blasphemy. As I recall, the only protection against this is being evil, or having spell resistance?
I'm pretty sure that a horizon walker with the aligned planar terrain mastery can avoid blasphemy as well. It's probably not much solace to the OP, but it's kinda neat. It might not work though, because blasphemy effects non-evil rather than good.

[Bhu]

At your Level the Pit FIend can one shot you all with Blaspjemy, or a quickened fireball. You won't even be able to hit it except for rolling a 20 at your level. Either you aren't meant to win this encounter by force of arms (in other words you get saved last minute or have to agree to something to avoid death), your DM has no understanding of how powerful it is in respect to your PC's, or he intends a tpk.

A Pit Fiend is faster than you, has more hit points than you, has an AC of 40, does more damage than you, etc. You have absolutely no hope of fighting this thing at your level without DM fiat. If you can escape do it. If you can't negotiate. If it won't let you negotiate, your DM may be a bit of a jackass.

[kimfu]

Ahmm, i don't understand the term "Railroading" sorry :P

And, i don't think he'll restart the campaign having us as undead =/
We're supposed to be playing a double party campaign. Our actions affect the other party and vice versa.

All of our party is from Neutral to Good, no evils allowed in our party atm.

Another things, he as a lawful evil, said he won't summon any extra help (not that he actually needs it) and he gave us preparation time.

So we buffed ourselves as best as possible
+4 to str, dex, con, int & wis.
+13 AC
+9 to all saves
+2 Attack
+Fire resistance (10)
+10 dmg Reduction

But we still don't think we're able to take him down :(

The only escape we can think of, is the other party saving us (lvl 20's with paladin and cleric). But i can't think of any reason they know of our existance, and why would they go to hell to save us (we haven't met in our DM's world).

[Humble Master]

Railroading is a term used to describe when a DM forces the PC's on a certain course of actions no matter what the PC's do.

And even with those buffs unless Gandalf calls in the Eagles you are screwed.

[kimfu]

At your Level the Pit FIend can one shot you all with Blaspjemy, or a quickened fireball. You won't even be able to hit it except for rolling a 20 at your level. Either you aren't meant to win this encounter by force of arms (in other words you get saved last minute or have to agree to something to avoid death), your DM has no understanding of how powerful it is in respect to your PC's, or he intends a tpk.

A Pit Fiend is faster than you, has more hit points than you, has an AC of 40, does more damage than you, etc. You have absolutely no hope of fighting this thing at your level without DM fiat. If you can escape do it. If you can't negotiate. If it won't let you negotiate, your DM may be a bit of a jackass.

Nah, he knows how strong that devil is. And yeah, the one other escape i was thinking of, was negotiating with it. We may have a little escape route, this fortress under the frozen lake, is like a 0.1% of another Big Moving Cube Fortress created by our older characters. So there's like a 1% chance to convince him giving him something our making a deal, i don't know T_T

[kimfu]

Railroading is a term used to describe when a DM forces the PC's on a certain course of actions no matter what the PC's do.



Ah, that makes sense xD
Thanks, didn't really know what you guys meant by railroading :P

[TuggyNE]

There are only three ways for a party of your level to survive a pit fiend:

Run. Run far, run fast, change planes, get out of there, don't look back
DM fiat
Custom-built near-TO characters designed specifically to beat the pit fiend


You don't have the last, the second is unreliable, so I'd suggest the first if you have any plane shift or similar. (Otherwise, you just have to hope its greater teleport doesn't hit the right spot.)

[eggynack]

Well, if you don't get any help, you're screwed. Do you have any ways of getting help? You said that there are level twenty folks who know nothing of your existence. Do you have any way to make them aware of your plight? Use your buff rounds to send for help, and hope that it arrives before you are turned into a thin paste.

[sonofzeal]

Even if you beat it, the 100-damage explosion would pretty certainly have finished anyone in range. Yeah. Didn't stand a chance. Either your DM intended you to lose, run, or surrender.

Funny how most PCs choose the first of those rather than either of the latter two.....

[Phelix-Mu]

Ahmm, i don't understand the term "Railroading" sorry :P

And, i don't think he'll restart the campaign having us as undead =/
We're supposed to be playing a double party campaign. Our actions affect the other party and vice versa.

All of our party is from Neutral to Good, no evils allowed in our party atm.

Another things, he as a lawful evil, said he won't summon any extra help (not that he actually needs it) and he gave us preparation time.

So we buffed ourselves as best as possible
+4 to str, dex, con, int & wis.
+13 AC
+9 to all saves
+2 Attack
+Fire resistance (10)
+10 dmg Reduction

But we still don't think we're able to take him down :(

The only escape we can think of, is the other party saving us (lvl 20's with paladin and cleric). But i can't think of any reason they know of our existance, and why would they go to hell to save us (we haven't met in our DM's world).

Railroading refers to when the characters are forced to cooperate with the DM's plot device, and it's pretty much never desirable (except in the most limited of circumstances...like chapter cutscenes or something).

Your buffs only prove that the pit fiend is about to engage in what it will probably note in it's diary as Curbstomp #4 on Day X, an otherwise unworthy investment of it's time.

It would be nice to come up with one trick to just screw up the guy. "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu" comes to mind, and you might even get a free one if you can trade strategic info on baatezu tactics or movements to Pazuzu (sadly, he is one of the Demon Princes that is least likely to care, from what I recall). Still, it might net you a get out of jail free card. Awfully tacky, though, and the DM will likely not allow it.

[Twilightwyrm]

I'm going to echo the sentiments of the other play grounders here by establishing that, barring mitigating circumstance, you are screwed. My suggestion would be to collectively offer yourselves up for a faustian pact with the devil, then hope you can get out of it later via repentance quest, or the Pit Fiend for some reason forgetting that such bargains are not valid if made under duress (here's more to hoping that the DM doesn't know this, than counting on a Devil that has ruthlessly and cunningly worked their way up through the ranks of hell forgetting this precept). Otherwise, unless you can one-shot this thing, you are pretty screwed. If you have a party member that can deal more than 50 damage to it in a single hit, you could try that and hope it fails the massive damage save, but that is a 1/20 chance, at best.

[Slipperychicken]

Maybe the DM intended for you to surrender to the Bearded Devil, and now he's just dragging things out for sadism.

[Phelix-Mu]

Even if you beat it, the 100-damage explosion would pretty certainly have finished anyone in range. Yeah. Didn't stand a chance. Either your DM intended you to lose, run, or surrender.

Funny how most PCs choose the first of those rather than either of the latter two.....

I believe only the balor has the "collateral damage be damned" death throes. Could be mistaken, but my epic level monk/wiz fought a bunch of balors and pit fiends at once, and didn't get any trophies cause most of the bodies were incinerated whenever she slew a balor.

[Twilightwyrm]

Even if you beat it, the 100-damage explosion would pretty certainly have finished anyone in range. Yeah. Didn't stand a chance. Either your DM intended you to lose, run, or surrender.

Funny how most PCs choose the first of those rather than either of the latter two.....

Actually, it is the Balor that explodes upon death. And dealing with a Balor would be many times worse than dealing with a Pit Fiend. At least the Pit Fiend might accept their surrender in return for their souls. The Balor would likely just tear them limb from limb before returning to tearing other things limb from limb.

[Rhynn]

Is it so hard to conceive that sometimes the best option is to hightail it ?
I blame the 3rd edition mentality of every fight as a somewhat fair chance of being won.

To be fair, it started in late AD&D 2E, but yeah, it's a bad attitude. "Run away" is a legitimate approach. "Fair fight" is always the worst one.

3E's experience system doesn't help at all, of course, with 95+% of XP coming from winning fights.

[Emperor Tippy]

There are only three ways for a party of your level to survive a pit fiend:

Run. Run far, run fast, change planes, get out of there, don't look back
DM fiat
Custom-built near-TO characters designed specifically to beat the pit fiend


You don't have the last, the second is unreliable, so I'd suggest the first if you have any plane shift or similar. (Otherwise, you just have to hope its greater teleport doesn't hit the right spot.)

Nah, Craft Contingent Celerity (to ensure that you act first), Resilient Sphere around the party to cut off line of effect, craft contingent teleport to get the party far away.

Or if on another plane have the rest of the party jump in your bag of holding+Dismissal on yourself from a scroll.

Of course he can just Wish you back.

[Nettlekid]

Okay, this one might actually work. This Pit Fiend sounds like an okay guy, actually. He's letting you prepare, after all. He's kind of doing this for sport. And as a Devil, he's super Lawful. He cannot break his promises. So here's what you do. Go up to him, and say "Pit Fiend! I have a single request of you, to settle a quarrel among my party. If my next statement is true, I would like you to give me a high-five, and if my next statement is false, I would like you not to give me a high-five. Do you promise you will do this, depending on the validity of my next statement?" The Pit Fiend should agree, since why not? He's playing with his food. Let them bicker, and let him play along, and then destroy them. Maybe kill them all with the high-five, who knows. Get him to say yes. Butter him up if need be. Because your salvation lies in your next sentence.

"You will neither high-five me, nor surrender and accept complete defeat."

If the Pit Fiend keeps his promise to high-five you if that's true and not to high-five you if that's false, then his ONLY option is to surrender and accept complete defeat. And hopefully that'll do it. If not..."PAZUZUPAZUZUPAZUZU!"


EDIT: How embarrassing, I didn't see that someone already suggested Pazuzu.

[Metahuman1]

Railroading refers to when the characters are forced to cooperate with the DM's plot device, and it's pretty much never desirable (except in the most limited of circumstances...like chapter cutscenes or something).

Your buffs only prove that the pit fiend is about to engage in what it will probably note in it's diary as Curbstomp #4 on Day X, an otherwise unworthy investment of it's time.

It would be nice to come up with one trick to just screw up the guy. "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu" comes to mind, and you might even get a free one if you can trade strategic info on baatezu tactics or movements to Pazuzu (sadly, he is one of the Demon Princes that is least likely to care, from what I recall). Still, it might net you a get out of jail free card. Awfully tacky, though, and the DM will likely not allow it.

Actually, I think Pazuzu would be willing to grant them the temporary power needed to win and then get back to there home plane since what he does is just run around corrupting mortals by just giving them all the power they want and then letting there heads swell to the point that they do evil stuff cause they figure there so mighty nothing can mess them up for it.


It would be funny to win that way and just have the characters agree to never do that again.


But yeah, chug-a-chug-a-choo-choo!


Edit: Try the trick from the man above me. Assuming your not being deliberately TPK'd, DM's either looking for something amazing like that to win the day, a full retriet or to railroad you into another quest line. So it's worth a shot. Worst that happens is he says "Nice try."

[PersonMan]

We encountered a couple of barbed devils. Took them down, and then a Bone Devil called to us, telling us to give our souls without a fight, or struggle a painful death, our boss is coming. One of our fighters (the only one who understood the Bone Devil) went ahead and told him "We are not afraid, bring it on". So, here comes the big boss, a Mighty Pit Fiend, he takes us to another plane or dimension (hell) and there we ended our little slaughter fest.


Is it so hard to conceive that sometimes the best option is to hightail it ?

Based on the situation, either your parties run from every enemy that threatens them ("haha, my boss is coming!") or you missed the part where they fought and killed some enemies, than another (which they may or may not even recognize IC) comes and says "surrender, our boss is coming!" which, to me at least, sounds like the typical pre-fight 'you cannot win! I am all-powerful!' stuff you get before a tough battle.

Honestly, "sometimes you need to run" is not really a sensible reply when you are vaguely threatened with "our boss" and then sucked into Hell.

[Crasical]

Nah, Craft Contingent Celerity (to ensure that you act first), Resilient Sphere around the party to cut off line of effect, craft contingent teleport to get the party far away.

Or if on another plane have the rest of the party jump in your bag of holding+Dismissal on yourself from a scroll.

Of course he can just Wish you back.

A fifth or sixth level wizard can't cast any of those spells and would waste over half their wealth buying the contingent spells outright from a caster who can...

[Emperor Tippy]

A fifth or sixth level wizard can't cast any of those spells and would waste over half their wealth buying the contingent spells outright from a caster who can...

7th level wizard has 4th level spells.

And a scroll of Dismissal or Plane Shift should probably make it into any parties emergency items pile just as soon as they can afford it. Same with a scroll of Teleport.

A 7th level wizard can create a Craft Contingent Resilient Sphere or a Craft Contingent Celerity.

[BowStreetRunner]

Hope he uses a vorpal throwing-axe and pray to the gods of the dice for a '1'.

Years ago (2nd Edition AD&D) I was running a 3rd level barbarian who ended up going somewhere he shouldn't (Ruins of Myth Drannor (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11743)) after ignoring all of the DM's 2x4 hints (if you don't know what this is, imagine how subtle a 2x4 piece of wood smacking you in the face would be, and that was the level of subtlety of his hints). In my defense, I was goaded into it by the other members of my party.

Regardless of how I got there the fact was I had absolutely no right whatsoever to survive. Since it was almost dinner time and the other players were content to go about the business of heating up the pizza and such, the DM agreed to quick run through my little solo adventure, with the idea that when I was done, I could work on a new character when he returned to running the rest of the party.

After about 30 minutes my character had made it through the encounter area and by nothing short of a miracle (mostly involving the most truly one-sided set of uncanny dice rolls I have ever seen), he was still alive. As the character neared the point of escape, the DM apparently decided there was no way he was going to allow him to survive. Suddenly, one of the main antagonist villains in the game appeared, along with his vorpal throwing-axe, and threw the deadly weapon at my fleeing barbarian...

...and then the DM rolled a '1'. A critical failure system was in place, and by his own rules he ended up missing my character and lopping off his own head instead. I considered briefly running back to pick up the weapon, but a couple of ice devils appeared and I realized I had used up any luck I might have and decided to finish my exit before the DM chose to simply kill my character by fiat and be done with it.

[Crasical]

7th level wizard has 4th level spells.

And a scroll of Dismissal or Plane Shift should probably make it into any parties emergency items pile just as soon as they can afford it. Same with a scroll of Teleport.

A 7th level wizard can create a Craft Contingent Resilient Sphere or a Craft Contingent Celerity.

My book has Caster Level 11 as a prerequisite for Craft Contingent Spell.

[Emperor Tippy]

My book has Caster Level 11 as a prerequisite for Craft Contingent Spell.

Bah, you would be right. A bit of cheese can solve that but it's the kind of cheese that gets the TO tag.

[buttcyst]

or he just railroaded your "alternate" characters into being slaves to asmodeus in order to try and figure out a way to hook the high lvl party down there for an epic run into the 9 hells. if so, interesting way to hook it for the high lvl group, sort of pits player knowledge vs character knowledge to motivate you all to want to go. if not and that is where he wants that part of the campaign to be, he could have taken you through a twisting dungeon with an unmarked door to outlands randomly placed in it (yeah... happened to me once). otherwise, talk, run, or die

[nedz]

I'm pretty sure that a horizon walker with the aligned planar terrain mastery can avoid blasphemy as well. It's probably not much solace to the OP, but it's kinda neat. It might not work though, because blasphemy effects non-evil rather than good.
Not before Character level 11 though.
Being deaf is the only realistic defence, through Silence ideally.
This would however be a bad idea, because:

There are only three ways for a party of your level to survive a pit fiend:

Run. Run far, run fast, change planes, get out of there, don't look back
DM fiat
Custom-built near-TO characters designed specifically to beat the pit fiend


4. Cut a deal — talk your way out of this. It's, most likely, the reason you were brought here.

[prufock]

Pit Fiends (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend) don't even seem to have plane shift or a similar ability that would suck you into hell. That means he just used his wish for the year, right?

Wouldn't happen to have a couple portable holes and bags of holding, would you?

[Tokiko Mima]

Ok, according to the SRD, this is how a typical pit fiend fight plays out.


Pit Fiend Tactics Round-By-Round

A pit fiend typically opens combat by using its spell-like abilities, attempting to neutralize dangerous opponents before entering melee.

Prior to combat: Unholy aura; activate fear aura, summon devil.
Round 1: Quickened fireball and mass hold monster if facing three or more visible, active opponents; otherwise power word stun against unarmored opponent (preferably a spellcaster).
Round 2: Meteor swarm against as many foes as possible, approach worst-injured enemy.
Round 3: Full attack against injured enemy.
Round 4: Continue melee against injured enemy, or power word stun against annoying spellcaster.
Round 5: Repeat from round 1, or greater teleport to safety if endangered.


Now, how far do you think you could make it, even with buffs? The quickened fireball alone is lethal to your casters; it connects for 10d6 damage. He follows with a paralyzation spell that will lock down at least one person, and more if you aren't standing at least 35 feet apart.

So by round 2, at least one person is likely dead from the fireball, and 2 or more are paralyzed. Because he can fly 60 feet freely you can't get closer than 100 ft. from the fiend, because doing so opens you up to insta-death from blasphemy. You definately can't melee, as his unholy aura will start doing Str damage even if you made a successful attack.

At the start of round 2, you all die, as the pit fiend launches the meteor swarm and kills anyone left capable of movement. The fiend can quicken another fireball just to be sure, so I doubt anyone even sees the monster in melee during round 3.

You also can't all escape either as no matter how fast you go, greater teleport is faster. He would just start running you down, one by one. You would need to teleport off the plane itself, and hope it doesn't have a way to follow you.

Personally I would adopt a cocky swagger, and negotiate terms for not killing it on it's native plane. Bluff hard and strong, as you don't have any cards at all to play. Try to channel Dirty Harry. Ask for a large sum of gold, and a binding agreement never to return to your plane in exchange for it's life. You need to make the pit fiend believe that you have the upper hand. While the pit fiend does not have Sense Motive skill, it does have a considerable +8 Wisdom bonus, and your DM can add up to +20 to the roll depending on how much the fiend knows about your combat abilities. It's your only hope, and a slim one at that. :smallwink:

[Essence_of_War]

Klickety Klack, Klickety Klack goes the Rail Road Track.

This.

Don't bother trying to fight. As Tokiko mentioned, your best bet is to Bluff/Diplomacy and hope that the DM just rolls with the Pit Fiend's generic +8 to Sense Motive, and also rolls dice poorly.

If it uses anything vaguely approaching reasonable tactics, you just die. It has at-will Blaphemy at CL 20. Die, no-save, just die.

[nedz]

There is of course the possibility that it's not really a Pit Fiend, just some lesser immortal trolling you. I'm not sure I'd bank on this one though; how good is your Sense Motive ?

[Nettlekid]

I still vote for the "trick it into promising not to kill you" route, that I described on the first page. I mention it again so it doesn't get swept under the carpet. Seriously, a Devil's biggest weakness is that it's made out of just as much Law as it is Evil. The same way a Pit Fiend would never hug a baby, it would never break a promise. Use that.

[Bakkan]

I can't imagine any creature with Intelligence 26 falling for something like that. The idea of "promise me you'll do something based on this other thing I'm gonna do but not tell you about until after you've agreed" is not something a Pit Fiend would do. Where's his advantage? Why would he ever agree to something like that, especially since he's probably smarter than any human who's ever lived (IRL)?

[Nettlekid]

Because he's cocky, because he's toying with you and is letting you do your feeble human pleas for life, and after all, at face value it seems that there are only two equally innocuous outcomes.

Because after all, you don't actually have to outsmart the Pit Fiend. You just have to outsmart the DM.

[Slipperychicken]

Because after all, you don't actually have to outsmart the Pit Fiend. You just have to outsmart the DM.

This. Unless there's an Int 26 entity sitting across the table from you, you're still dealing with your DM, whose Int is most likely 15 or lower. He is, however, master of the universe, so what he says will usually go in-game.

[Nettlekid]

True. And it's pretty bad form to be the kind of DM who gets cleverly outwitted, and then throws a fuss saying "Well he kills you anyway cuz he can cuz I say he can and I'm the BOSS!" I've been outwitted or just caught off-guard by my players on several occasions, and I sigh and tell them "There is no reason that wouldn't work. Good job, you nuke the Inevitables" or something to that extent.

[Bakkan]

"Pit Fiend! I have a single request of you, to settle a quarrel among my party. If my next statement is true, I would like you to give me a high-five, and if my next statement is false, I would like you not to give me a high-five. Do you promise you will do this, depending on the validity of my next statement?"


It would seem very strange to me for a creature which values laws and promises as much as a devil must and which has even a human average intelligence (read: DM) to agree to this. To make a promise is a dangerous thing, especially when dealing with ones enemies. Furthermore, what benefit does agreeing to this promise offer to the Pit Fiend?

[Kesnit]

We encountered a couple of barbed devils. Took them down, and then a Bone Devil called to us, telling us to give our souls without a fight, or struggle a painful death, our boss is coming. One of our fighters (the only one who understood the Bone Devil) went ahead and told him "We are not afraid, bring it on". So, here comes the big boss, a Mighty Pit Fiend, he takes us to another plane or dimension (hell) and there we ended our little slaughter fest.

I am not so sure the party got railroaded. The DM didn't automatically bring out the Pit Fiend. Instead, the DM tried to get the party to leave with the Bone Devil. The Fighter got cocky, and now the Pit Fiend comes out.

If the party had been confronted with the Pit Fiend as soon as they beat the barbed devils, that would be railroading. I'm reading this more as the DM rolling with the players, and the player's foolishness.

[eggynack]

I am not so sure the party got railroaded. The DM didn't automatically bring out the Pit Fiend. Instead, the DM tried to get the party to leave with the Bone Devil. The Fighter got cocky, and now the Pit Fiend comes out.

If the party had been confronted with the Pit Fiend as soon as they beat the barbed devils, that would be railroading. I'm reading this more as the DM rolling with the players, and the player's foolishness.
The only options were to either give up their souls or die. That seems pretty railroadish to me, especially when a likely outcome of the pit fiend fight is that it takes their souls anyway.

[SiuiS]

Is it so hard to conceive that sometimes the best option is to hightail it ?
I blame the 3rd edition mentality of every fight as a somewhat fair chance of being won.

I just have to cite gandalf on this one. This foe is beyond any of you, run !

Trouble is, they are now in hell. There is nowhere to run, in hell, that is not hell.


Okay, this one might actually work. This Pit Fiend sounds like an okay guy, actually. He's letting you prepare, after all. He's kind of doing this for sport. And as a Devil, he's super Lawful. He cannot break his promises. So here's what you do. Go up to him, and say "Pit Fiend! I have a single request of you, to settle a quarrel among my party. If my next statement is true, I would like you to give me a high-five, and if my next statement is false, I would like you not to give me a high-five. Do you promise you will do this, depending on the validity of my next statement?" The Pit Fiend should agree, since why not? He's playing with his food. Let them bicker, and let him play along, and then destroy them. Maybe kill them all with the high-five, who knows. Get him to say yes. Butter him up if need be. Because your salvation lies in your next sentence.

"You will neither high-five me, nor surrender and accept complete defeat."

If the Pit Fiend keeps his promise to high-five you if that's true and not to high-five you if that's false, then his ONLY option is to surrender and accept complete defeat. And hopefully that'll do it. If not..."PAZUZUPAZUZUPAZUZU!"


EDIT: How embarrassing, I didn't see that someone already suggested Pazuzu.

Devils can lie, and frequently do. They can also break deals and ignore contracts. The only lawful thing in D&D which cannot lie is a paladin, and not because he is lawful. Hell, Titivulus, a majordomo of the nine hells, has lying as his special place in infernal politics.

[Slipperychicken]

The only lawful thing in D&D which cannot lie is a paladin, and not because he is lawful.

You can also give most Paladins a 50/50 chance that he'll fall quickly enough that it won't matter. These guys turn to evil so fast you wonder why they even signed up in the first place.

[Elderand]

Trouble is, they are now in hell. There is nowhere to run, in hell, that is not hell.

not all part of hell are equaly dangerous, not every square inch of hell is filled with pit fiend packed shoulder to shoulder.

[nedz]

You can also give most Paladins a 50/50 chance that he'll fall quickly enough that it won't matter. These guys turn to evil so fast you wonder why they even signed up in the first place.

Maybe they like tragedies ?

[Kesnit]

The only options were to either give up their souls or die.

Or turn and run away. Or fight the Bone Devil.

The only indication that they would actually have to give up their souls were the words of the Bone Devil. Maybe a deal could have been struck. Maybe the Bone Devil was bluffing, or just talking without meaning it.

[eggynack]

Or turn and run away. Or fight the Bone Devil.

The only indication that they would actually have to give up their souls were the words of the Bone Devil. Maybe a deal could have been struck. Maybe the Bone Devil was bluffing, or just talking without meaning it.
This only really works if the pit fiend is difficult for the bone devil to access. If it isn't, running away and fighting only lead to a pit fiend attack. I think there needs to be more information in order to decide the degree to which it's railroading. It's entirely possible that every choice would have lead to this outcome, and there's actually decent evidence for that claim. In any case, the party should probably make a deal with the pit fiend, of a similar type to the kind you would have made with the bone devil. This fight seems impossible to win or escape from, at least for a party that wasn't expressly built for the purpose of pit fiend fighting. There are obviously ways that a party of this level could theoretically win this fight, but this isn't a theoretical party. It's just a regular party, which has its feats, items, and levels, set in stone.

[Icewraith]

Try to negotiate. You're completely outmatched, and the Pit Fiend doesn't get a whole lot out of killing you guys except some brief entertainment. Your objective is to figure out if there's a plot hook service you can perform for the Pit Fiend on the material plane that doesn't involve signing over your souls. The second you accept a deal that involves the Pit Fiend getting your souls, all he has to do is find one loophole or way to get you to break the contract and incur the penalty for failure, kill you, and collect your souls anyways.

Maybe there's somewhere you guys can go that he can't, or the area that has some ridiculously evil artifact is warded and his normal agents can't get in there to turn the warding off.

If negotiation fails, your goal is to run and hope there's a color pool or other random portal or planar fissure you can jump in and hope for a lucky break. Either you end up somewhere you're roughly as bad off as you are now, or you end up somewhere more hospitable. Also, if you can find a small tunnel you can barely squeeze into and get far enough from the pit fiend, his greater teleport will fail (he's large) and he'll damage himself if he just tries to teleport to you. Of course, he can still send an army of lesser demons down the tunnel to rip you apart, but he can't kill you personally.

[Maginomicon]

I wonder though... Assuming the one that told you his boss was coming is dead, if this Pit Fiend is really their boss, then his underlings just wasted his time. That probably counts for something, at least a distraction.

Bluffing and negotiating is probably your best bet unless Deus Ex Machina is going to interfere again and stop the fight. If you bluff and tell him "Hold up. Your underling probably just wasted your time. We don't know why we're here. We're just trying to survive whatever half-cocked plan your subordinate cooked up. I have no idea who you are, and frankly, getting called into your office may be his one last insult to your authority." ...it may give you enough time to negotiate a ticket home. They may be lawful and evil, but a subordinate giving them the finger probably means more to a Pit Fiend than some puny humans trying to fight for their lives.

[mcbobbo]

I am a bit surprised no one has suggested this, but what about asking the GM what's going on, OOC? "Are we really supposed to fight this thing? He'll cream us!" ...or similar should go a long way.

Some of this advice sounds a bit skewed towards "player vs GM". It never hurts to assume the other people around the table are in fact people.

[dascarletm]

The only option I can see is to outwit it. Use the fact that it can pretty much kill you if it went all out, and see if this pit-fiend has any personality traits you can exploit. This'll mean you'll need to win in RP, and not in combat. If the pit fiend is generic, no-personality, I'm just going to use my standard by-the-book tactics on weak mortals, then there is no point in really trying to live.

[nedz]

We encountered a couple of barbed devils. Took them down, and then a Bone Devil called to us, telling us to give our souls without a fight, or struggle a painful death, our boss is coming. One of our fighters (the only one who understood the Bone Devil) went ahead and told him "We are not afraid, bring it on". So, here comes the big boss, a Mighty Pit Fiend, he takes us to another plane or dimension (hell) and there we ended our little slaughter fest.

Of course, if this happens again, well: TPK.

Reading this again, I'm not so sure that it was a rail-road — more of a Leroy ?

[dascarletm]

Of course, if this happens again, well: TPK.

Reading this again, I'm not so sure that it was a rail-road — more of a Leroy ?

Total Leroy.

Bone devils only have above them in terms of ranks (SRD only):
Ice Devils, Bearded Devils, and Pit fiends. Any of these would spell trouble for the players. Heck the Bone devil would of been a tough fight, but his boss?:smalleek:

[Kinsmarck]

I thought, lore-wise, that Pit Fiends couldn't come to the material plane of their own volition, barring a permanent Gate? Either I'm wrong, and you can disregard this, or you may well be onto the tip of the iceberg with this bruiser. Regardless of the outcome, there's a good chance that someone far worse than a Pit Fiend is the real BBEG here.

[lsfreak]

Reading this again, I'm not so sure that it was a rail-road — more of a Leroy ?

As someone else said, though, "My boss is coming!" isn't the most inspired way of getting a party to flee, and there didn't seem to be any indication that they had any reason to believe it wasn't a) a bluff b) something a level or two higher than what they'd already fought, and certainly not a friggin pit fiend. Rather than railroad or leeroy, I'd be inclined to toss it up to the DM flubbing the writing. Or possibly the DM throwing a bit of a tantrum, as it sounds like the level 6 party kind of curbstomped the CR10+ fights he had lined up.