Smite= whoopdeedoo?

[CyberThread]

Is smite really all that important, it seems rather ... I don't know... shruggable ?

[Temotei]

Is smite really all that important, it seems rather ... I don't know... shruggable ?

Is this for D&D 3.5?

[Flickerdart]

Is smite really all that important, it seems rather ... I don't know... shruggable ?
Smite is exceptionally lousy. Since almost all of its instances appear on classes that you want to get out of as soon as possible, its only use is to add Charisma to your to-hit, usually so that you can Power Attack for more.

Given that Paladin synergizes well with mounted charging, though, Smite can be a handy source of bonus flat damage, which multiplies when properties such as Valorous are applied. As such builds tend to deliver a single devastating attack per round, you don't need to use more than one Smite per target, and might be able to get 50 or even more damage out of it if you really try.

One of the best ways to get Smite if you're going for the 1 shot, 1 kill approach is Ordained Champion - while its Smite is a swift action activation, it costs Turn Undead uses instead of a limited pool to use, and uses your effective turning level for damage, meaning that you can actually have a nice damage boost from it without having to take crap classes.

[Spuddles]

If your smite is coming from paladin, I'd trade it out for bardic inspire courage per Champions of Valor. With a MW horn and a badge of courage, that's +3 attack and damage for the whole party for the next 5 rounds (or longer if you keep blowing your horn). Extra song lets you do that 4 more times a day, lingering song lets it last 10 rounds after you sing. UMD a (eternal) wand of inspirational boost to bump that up to +4; words of creation boosts that to +8. Dragonfire inspiration turns that into 8d6 fire damage which stacks with another inspire courage. Also all your allies are getting this, so WOOHOO WAR PONY!

[Keneth]

Get the Pathfinder version and it's suddenly awesome. Well, better at least. :smalltongue:

[Gwendol]

As spuddles points out, it can be exchanged for Inspire Courage through the "From Smite to Song" feat, which is very neat.
Also, charging smite is usually recommended for a mounted paladin.

It's not bad, but the number of uses are too few for it to make a real impact.

[Spuddles]

As spuddles points out, it can be exchanged for Inspire Courage through the "From Smite to Song" feat, which is very neat.
Also, charging smite is usually recommended for a mounted paladin.

It's not bad, but the number of uses are too few for it to make a real impact.

Is it a feat? For some reason I thought it was an ACF for paladins of an FR deity.

Super feat heavy build for something you could get with bard/crusader.

[MirddinEmris]

Is it a feat? For some reason I thought it was an ACF for paladins of an FR deity.

Super feat heavy build for something you could get with bard/crusader.

It's a feat, though there is an ACF for paladins from Harmonious Order, and it's worse than feat (flat +1 bonus, doesn't scale) but can help with Perform prereqs for a feat.

Paladin also can take an ACF (replace mount by spirits from Dung) to put some sacred/profane bonuses on top of morale from bard, but personally i like bard/warblade much better - Dragonfire Inspiration + White Raven school = win for entire party.

[Ashtagon]

Paladin also can take an ACF (replace mount by spirits from Dung) ...

Regular paladin mounts don't poop?

[Gwendol]

I think she meant Dungeonscape...

[Gwendol]

I'd take the feat over the ACF anyday. It's in Champions of Valor, p. 29.

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd take the feat over the ACF anyday. It's in Champions of Valor, p. 29.

I'd do both. The feat scales better. The ACF gives you access to abilities you need for various requirements (such as Inspire Competence so you can take Song of the Heart). Also, Inspire Greatness is underrated, especially with Words of Creation on the table.

[Gwendol]

Quite correct, if both are available.

I'd like to point the readers of the thread to the A-Game Paladin build for showcasing what the class is capable of, under the right circumstances.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29110689

[Kaeso]

One of the best ways to get Smite if you're going for the 1 shot, 1 kill approach is Ordained Champion - while its Smite is a swift action activation, it costs Turn Undead uses instead of a limited pool to use, and uses your effective turning level for damage, meaning that you can actually have a nice damage boost from it without having to take crap classes.

This is probably the best smite-attack out there but to be honest with the introduction of divine metamagic and a slew of devotion feats, the cleric has better things to waste his turn undead uses on.

[sonofzeal]

Smite + Martial Study: Emerald Blade + Power Attack for full has served me well in the past.... :smallbiggrin:

[Deox]

Smite as a whole is pretty lackluster. That being said, there are interesting ways to make it not so.

The Monk's ACF to trade Flurry of Blows for Decisive Strike comes to mind. The only problem is it has to be unarmed or with a special monk weapon, though that's easily circumvented.

[Urpriest]

I've heard that Killoren can do fun things with Smite.

[CyberThread]

I've heard that Killoren can do fun things with Smite.

Unsure fully what you mean, but a feat lets you do a stun for 1 round, on a 1/2 HD + CHA + some other thing for DC

But instead of Smite vs Evil, Kill does Smite VS abbertions,constructs,humanoids,oozes,outsiders, and undead.


basically anything that looks at you funny lol, while a pally is 1 time per 5 levels, a kill has 1 per charisma bonus , but only once per hour. Otherwise very similar to a palidens method.

So a level one bard killoren with 16 CHA, would basically do 3 smites, once per hour for +3 BAB and 1 extra damage as untype bonus, meaning you can stack everything else with it, including a pally smite or your bard song abilities bonus.


I DO NOT know if it stacks with paliden feats though for smite.

[ericgrau]

It's not bad, but the number of uses are too few for it to make a real impact.
The extra smiting feat + TWF is pretty good, or Pathfinder smite + TWF. It falls behind the oversight which is shocktrooper, but otherwise it's decent. Once you can smite reliably instead of limited use it gives good cha synergy too.

[CyberThread]

:O :(, we should explore the killiron option more.

[Mato]

Source on killiron?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Source on killiron?Races of the Wild. Check out near the back, where it has information on gnolls and centaurs.

Then there's Sapphire Smite from MoI. You get an additional smite/day for every point of essentia that you invest, as well as an untyped bonus to damage equal to the invested essentia.

[danzibr]

up to +4; words of creation boosts that to +8
Check with your DM on this. BoED came out before the other ways to boost IC. The intention is probably to boost base IC, so up to +5. Then again, your DM may let you apply your buffs in any order and count WoC as doubling the whole thing.

[Mato]

Races of the Wild. Check out near the back, where it has information on gnolls and centaurs.

Then there's Sapphire Smite from MoI. You get an additional smite/day for every point of essentia that you invest, as well as an untyped bonus to damage equal to the invested essentia.Oh, the Killoren race.
That doesn't even sound like killiron.

Mighty Smiting out of the MiC gives +2 to attack and damage as well as an additional use per day. And Awesome Smite just gets the job done with a choice of three addon effects, ignore some DR, free trip, or ignore all miss chances (includes effects like mirror image/incorporeality). And don't forget Devastating Smite's double smite damage.

[eggynack]

Oh, the Killoren race.
That doesn't even sound like killiron.
It's an odd thing. Urpriest spelled it correctly the first time, and it seems as if a message board style version of broken telephone ensued.

[Phaederkiel]

there is something (i think it is an acf ) for paladins called charging smite or so, which allows you to deal pally lvl x 2 or 3 during a charge. Not a mounted charge, but a normal charge.

I nearly killed a pc with it once. EC 14, 60 dmg. I was really afraid of critting with my BBEG, i can tell you.

There are some ways to get some bad statuses and such riding on your smite.
(Luckily the PC made all three saving throws this charge caused, plus the one against massive damage...)

[tiercel]

As others have said, smite by itself isn't very exciting, unless you build specifically around it, e.g.:

emerald blade maneuver (touch attack means dumping full BAB into...)
Power Attack (because you're wielding a two-handed weapon)
Leap Attack (because you want to double the flat bonus from Power Attack)
Charging Smite ACF (another flat bonus to damage on par with Spirited Charge)
rhino's rush spell (double damage, and since all your bonuses to damage are flat bonuses, not extra damage dice, the whole mess arguably doubles)

makes for a decent charg-adin-in-a-can. I suppose you could be a Killoren Paladin if the effects of the racial smite and class smite stack (and the feat for Killorens makes their smite add daze, not stun, which matters esp when smiting, e.g., undead and constructs), though the racial smite's 1/hr limitation is a mild bummer.

If you're really serious about smiting, surprise, there's a handbook for that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492).