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gr8artist
2013-06-05, 07:57 AM
Ok, so I'm looking at a character build focused on rays/ranged touches and sneak attack. Pretty straightforward with stuff like Scorching Ray and whatnot, but there are some interesting questions that arise when using debuff type spells. So, I'm going to list every feat, ability, power, effect, and benefit I think I might be able to get, and I'd like to know if they apply to the following spell effects.
We are using the weaponlike spells rules from Complete Arcane p 85.
For simplicity, and to save time, I'll abbreviate the abilities and number the spell effects, so responses can be something like: "1: WS, SA, and RSS apply"
Any rule or reference from 3.5 and/or Pathfinder is appreciated. I've been searching, but getting mixed results. I'll make a table when I get some responses.

My abilities are...
WS - Weapon Specialization (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-specialization-combat---final) (ray)
RSS - Ranged Spell Specialization (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/ranged-spell-specialization--2358/)
SA - Sneak Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue) 1d6
BL - Orc Sorceror Bloodline Arcana (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/orc-bloodline)
PBS - Point Blank Shot (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/point-blank-shot-combat---final)
Crit - Critical Hit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Attack) (Let's say I roll a nat 20 and confirm. Can this effect crit for double base effect? Do bonuses get doubled as well?)

Possible Spell Effects, numbered for ease of reference.
Although I already have a pretty good idea about several of these, I figure it would be nice to have them all in one spot.
1. Normal damage
2. Nonlethal damage
3. Elemental damage
4. Force damage
5. Negative energy damage
6. Ability damage
7. Ability drain
8. Miscellaneous penalties (atks, saves, abilities, etc.)
9. Negative levels

I need to know which effects (#'s) can benefit from which abilities (abbr.'s), and if the benefit is something other than the spell's original effect (ie. SA doing neg energy damage when used with a negative level effect).
I also need the code for a table...

Ignominia
2013-06-05, 08:51 AM
Unless I misunderstand the question, I think "Weapon like spells" pg 85&86 answer everything for you. In short, Any spell that requires an attack roll and causes damage or energy drain apply weapon like rules. So,

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 9: RSS (if ranged and not touch only),SA, PBS and CRIT

#8, RSS, PBS, SA
(Penalties cannot be crit, but should apply to everything else.)

WS - Weapon specialization doesn't apply to any spell types (in 3.5 at least, see "Feats and weapon like spells" pg 72 complete arcane) I assume you meant Weapon Focus, which gives you +1 to hit with a chosen weapon. Weapon specialization gives you +2 damage on a weapon you have Weapon focus on and requires that you be a 4th level fighter. If that is indeed the case WF- Weapon Focus applies to all of the above.
For Weapon Focus, you can choose either "Touch" or "Ranged Touch" (which applies to all range touched spells, not just rays.

I don't know much about pathfinder, so I don't understand how Orc Bloodline applies to ray spells at all.
Finally, if you want to change the TYPE of damage that your ray does, there are a bunch of Metamagic feats to achieve this goal, Energy Sub, Nonlethal Sub etc in Complete Arcane (pg 74)

I hope this helps and is what you were looking for!

gr8artist
2013-06-05, 09:06 AM
Ah, thanks. I looked up "weaponlike spells" but not the feats that are specifically elligible. Darn, I really liked "weapon focus (ray)"... lol.
Now, SA is negative energy HP damage when applied to 6, 7, 8, 9... correct?
Would PBS and BL be negative energy HP damage as well, when applied to those effects?

Bonus question: RSS only applies on spells that deal HP damage (see the last line of RSS). If I get SA on a ray that deals ability damage, so the victim is taking HP damage from the spell (due to SA), then can I apply my RSS to that spell?
Bonus bonus: If I CAN apply RSS to a spell that deals both ability and HP damage, does the wording on RSS force me to apply the +2 bonus to the HP damage? or is it possible to add +2 ability damage from RSS, as long as the spell also deals HP damage?
(obviously not RAI, but whatever. I'm a munchkin)

Ignominia
2013-06-05, 09:34 AM
Now, SA is negative energy HP damage when applied to 6, 7, 8, 9... correct?
Yes,
6,7,9 would be negative damage...(as per "Sneak Attack pg 86 CA)
Looking back, 8 is not subject to crit, so therefore not also subject to SA.


Would PBS and BL be negative energy HP damage as well, when applied to those effects?
Cant help you on BL (Ive never played Pathfinder, only 3.5) but PBS doesn't apply any damage bonus on ability/energy drain/damage/penalty just +1 to hit. (CA pg73)


Bonus question: RSS only applies on spells that deal HP damage (see the last line of RSS). If I get SA on a ray that deals ability damage, so the victim is taking HP damage from the spell (due to SA), then can I apply my RSS to that spell?
Maybe?, I think id have to say yes to this one. If the Energy Drain spells cause damage via SA, why not RSS? The first "successful" attack includes the SA damage, which should trigger the +2 from RSS. But it would be largely up to your dms interpretation.


Bonus bonus: If I CAN apply RSS to a spell that deals both ability and HP damage, does the wording on RSS force me to apply the +2 bonus to the HP damage? or is it possible to add +2 ability damage from RSS, as long as the spell also deals HP damage?
Id definitely say it only applies to extra sneak damage, the feat specifically states that it only applies to spells that do HP damage. If your DM allows you to add RSS to SA damage, Id take the extra 2 points hp damage and not push my luck.:smallwink:

gr8artist
2013-06-05, 12:34 PM
Thanks for clearing up my PBS error. That's what I get for not reading material. PBS then falls under the same "maybe your DM will let you get away with it" perks that RSS does, getting the extra +1 if you also deal sneak attack. (every little bit helps)
Which of the abilities are precision damage? I'm guessing RSS, PBS, Crit, and SA, but not BL.
RSS contains a "you must strike precisely, <30 ft" clause that makes it seem like precision damage instead of normal.

So, the only ability we still need an answer for is the Bloodline ability (BL)