Problems with the ranger (3.5)

[smoke prism]

Hi playground.

I'm just curiosa if anyone can give me a list of faults with the ranger in 3.5. (if they are non, pleas tell me)

[ahenobarbi]

I'm not sure what you mean... anyways, from Why Tier 4s are in Tier 4 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4874.0)


The ranger might be the most average class in D&D. It doesn't suck but it doesn't really do anything too well. I'd generally avoid the two weapon fighting combat style and stick to the archery combat style to be an effective ranger. -Ninjarabbit

Cons: Rangers are limited to light armor and only have a d8 hit dice, a problem to those who went the two weapon fighting route. Rangers by themselves don't have a high damage output, especially when fighting against non-favored enemies. Rangers suffer from MAD: needing a decent dex, con, wis, int, and str to be effective. The ranger's animal companion is way too weak to even consider using in combat. Rangers are half-casters so their spells won't be too reliable in combat without a few tricks. -Ninjarabbit

Pros: Rangers get 5 bonus feats total and they don't have to meet any prequisites for their combat feats. 6 skill points/level and a pretty good set of class skills are a very nice thing. Rangers have enough class variants across many splatbooks to keep things interesting. Rangers multiclass well with scouts, paladins, and monks thanks to the class-combo feats. Rangers do have a solid spell list, especially if you have access to certain splatbooks. -Ninjarabbit

Not that any of it is Ranger's "fault".

[karkus]

They get awesome powers... way too late in the game. They're getting Camouflage when Wizards can get Greater Invisibility, and Hide in Plain Sight when other players can literally make wishes and miracles come true. It's probably the best class to begin with, however, as they get both combat skills and skill skills.

I've said that word too much now... is "skill" even a real word? :smalleek:

A multiclass Ranger, in my opinion, seems like one of the best options for a player because you get the majority of your abilities within the first half dozen levels anyway.

[Telonius]

They're specialized in one of two fighting styles, neither of which are that terrific. Two-weapon fighting tends to be hard to ramp up the damage, unless you're adding on some form of bonus damage (like Rogue does with Sneak Attack). While the Favored Enemy bonus at least gives you something, it's situational. Archery, the other style, is something that D&D just never supported all that well. To even come close to doing it right is very feat-intensive.

Ranger suffers from a mild case of MAD (multiple ability dependence). You need Strength for your damage, and either Strength or Dexterity for your attacks. Since it's more lightly-armored, you need Dexterity to keep your AC up. And to cast any of your spells, you need a decent amount of Wisdom.

If you're limited to the PHB, the spell selection is really underwhelming. (Bringing in other sources helps out on this significantly).

[Emperor Tippy]

Use this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) variant and the ranger improves probably a hundred percent.

Add in a two level dip in this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike) monk variant and the alternate class features Decisive Strike (PHB2, pg. 51 - trade Flurry for a double damage melee attack and double damage to all future attacks in the round) and Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil pg, 21 - trade evasion for immediate action 1 round invisibility every three rounds).

Take a one level dip in Shadowdancer (for good HipS, Cobra Strike Monk gets all the prerequisites out of the way).

Take a two level dip in Soulknife using this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) variant for Hidden talent instead of Wild Talent.

Take 3 levels of Soulbow and put Distance and Seeking on your Mind Arrow.

Take 1 level of Shiba Protector for a stacking Wis to Attack and Damage.

Take the feat Zen Archery for Wis instead of Dex to ranged attack rolls.

That is 9 levels, so have 11 total Ranger levels in your build (oh, take the Distracting Attack ACF from PHB2 pg. 55, your animal companion is worthless).

Now Wildshape into something like a Legendary Eagle (MM2, pg. 137 - 12 HD though), Dire Hawk (MM2, pg. 76 - 5 HD), Desmodu Hunting Bat (MM2, pg. 65 - 4HD), or even a regular old Eagle (SRD - 1 HD).

You have Wis to Damage twice, Wis to Attack twice, Wis to AC, get to hang out as a non descriptive flying animal, and get to shoot people in the face from upwards of 2,000 feet away.

Max your Wis (and use a Wilding clasp for a +6 Item) for 34 at level 20 on a Human base (oh yeah, grab the Able Learner feat to make up for skill problems) and you have +24 to Attack and Damage from Wis. Or an AB of +39/+34/+29 at level 20.

Take Improved Flight (Races of the Wild) twice for a perfect fly speed when Wild Shaped into a form with a natural fly speed.

Make sure to get permanent See Invisible, Invisible Arcane Sight, Tongues, Telepathic Bond (with each party member and your animal companion), Cloudwings (+30 ft. fly speed, Savage Species), and Improved Blindsight (60 ft. blindsight, Savage Species) along with Incarnate Detect Teleportation (augmented and at ML 20 for 300 ft. range), Danger Sense (augmented for Improved Uncanny Dodge), and Know Direction and Location.

A Wilding Clasped Third Eye Conceal is also a good choice.


If you want to play exalted then this is probably one of the few builds that is helped by Vow of Poverty.

---
I actually kinda want to play this in a game. It doesn't really come fully online until ECL 14 though.

Hmm, I think I'll go put this in the Archery thread as a scout sniper.

But yeah, the problem with the ranger is that it's too unfocused.

[nedz]

Play a Druid, take the Deadly Hunter ACF and just call yourself a Ranger.

[ericgrau]

Con: They're often like a fighter with less feats, or abilities that are weaker than feats. And they have light armor + d8 HD fragility.
Pro: They get skills and utility spells to make up for it. Splatbooks give them combat spells too, but they aren't enough to keep up on fighting.

As touched on you can overcome many of the drawbacks by multi-classing, and you'll still have a good amount of skills. You can still access spells via wands, even with less than 4 levels in ranger. The reason to stay in the class is if you want even more utility than that. Having a favored enemy that the campaign revolves around helps too, but it's not enough on its own.

[awa]

they suffer a bit from the druid stepping on their toes
a lot of their abilities are just worse versions of druid availabilities. Though all in all i think it's a pretty good class a great improvement over the 3.0 version. As others have mentioned non-core material particularly when it comes to spells are a massive improvement.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Their caster level is only 1/2 character level, making their spells more ineffective than they ought to be.
They need too many abilities to cover all their bases, especially if going TWF.
Neither combat style is really that effective, even by D&D mundane standards.
Their animal companion is pretty useless, too.


On the plus side, if you do Scout 3/Ranger 17 with the Swift Hunter feat, it starts to look a lot more functional-- you get full skirmish, full favored enemy, and nearly full ranger spellcasting, which does get some nice stuff out-of-core.