What to do with 500 ft of reach

[123456789blaaa]

Drunken Master 4 gives reach equal to the length of the improvised weapons you wield. A Spool of Endless Rope gives you 500 ft of rope (technically you could take a bunch of mundane ropes and splice them together with the Use Rope skill and get even longer lengths. However, I'm not sure if that counts as a single improvised weapon). Sadly though, you can't enchant it as the rope from the spool isn't masterwork :(.

So what can we do with this enormous amount of reach?

[TheMooch]

warhulks ability to attack everything in reach comes to mind.

[Osiris]

You could, perhaps, tie a Glaive to the end and nail them with the catapult bard spell (you are a bard, right? great fluff!)

But seriously, you just turned yourself into a flipping harpoon gun!
:smallbiggrin:

[OzymandiasX]

First off, just because a rope is 500 feet long doesn't mean you can attack 500 feet away with it.

Secondly: If you DO have 500 feet of reach... Whirlwind attack!

[hydraa]

if my calc is right. and you sling the spool around 1 time in a round, that spool is traveling at 356 miles a hour (not counting acceleration or deceleration of the spool)

[Phippster]

You could, perhaps, tie a Glaive to the end and nail them with the catapult bard spell (you are a bard, right? great fluff!)

But seriously, you just turned yourself into a flipping harpoon gun!
:smallbiggrin:

"You spoony bard!"

Whirlwind Attack just became fairly useful to you. The image of tripping people with the 500 foot rope is also a fairly comical one. Actually, doing anything to someone with the full length of a 500 foot rope is fairly comical.

I would suggest pulling off combos that allow you to hit everyone within your reach, using appropriate shenanigans to use more than you're supposed to each round.

[BWR]

Based on what?

[Uncle Pine]

Whirlwind Attack is indeed great. Go for it!

EDIT: You can't enchant the rope, but since the damage of drunken master's improvised weapon is based on your unarmed strike damage, you could take a necklace of natural weapon and enchant it with properties like flaming and so on. Your unarmed strike (and your rope) would then do +Xd6 energy damage. Imagine using Whirlwind Attack with a 500 ft flaming rope!

[Piggy Knowles]

A couple of thoughts...

1. Psionic Fist or Tashalatora and a psionic class seems like a nice tie-in. Why? Because 500 feet of reach isn't very good if you can't see an enemy 500' away. Enter Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer + Mindsight. Turn into a Spellweaver, use Metamorphic Transfer to nab its telepathy. Bang! You've now got Mindsight with a range of 1,000 miles.

2. Alternatively, Duskblade, Whirlwind Attack, full attack channeling. (And you could always pull in Polymorph via Arcane Disciple (Transformation) or something, find a way to cheese in an ML of 5, and still pull the above-referenced trick.)

3. Lockdown fighter with a 500' reach? Yes, please! Thicket of Blades specifically covers any opponent you threaten, so it works nicely with this.

[123456789blaaa]

Great ideas people :smallbiggrin:. Keep em coming!


First off, just because a rope is 500 feet long doesn't mean you can attack 500 feet away with it.

Secondly: If you DO have 500 feet of reach... Whirlwind attack!


Drunken Master 4 gives reach equal to the length of the improvised weapons you wield. A Spool of Endless Rope gives you 500 ft of rope (technically you could take a bunch of mundane ropes and splice them together with the Use Rope skill and get even longer lengths. However, I'm not sure if that counts as a single improvised weapon). Sadly though, you can't enchant it as the rope from the spool isn't masterwork :(.

:smallwink:

Also, is the name similarity to this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=42176)a coincidence?


Based on what?

:smallconfused:


A couple of thoughts...

1. Psionic Fist or Tashalatora and a psionic class seems like a nice tie-in. Why? Because 500 feet of reach isn't very good if you can't see an enemy 500' away. Enter Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer + Mindsight. Turn into a Spellweaver, use Metamorphic Transfer to nab its telepathy. Bang! You've now got Mindsight with a range of 1,000 miles.

2. Alternatively, Duskblade, Whirlwind Attack, full attack channeling. (And you could always pull in Polymorph via Arcane Disciple (Transformation) or something, find a way to cheese in an ML of 5, and still pull the above-referenced trick.)

3. Lockdown fighter with a 500' reach? Yes, please! Thicket of Blades specifically covers any opponent you threaten, so it works nicely with this.

1. That seems pretty cheesy :smallyuk:. But yes -50 to Spot checks hurts a ton.

About Whirlwind Attack: The prereqs are really really crappy. Maybe a little less than usual since Drunken Masters need Dodge anyways but still really really crappy. Paimon seems like a good way to get around this though.

And from a poster on the minmaxboards: Knight 4 so that all the squares in your reach are difficult terrain.

[Metahuman1]

Good feats: Whirlwind Attack, Mage slayer line assuming not a Gish build, Improved Trip, and improved Cleave. Oh, and combat reflexes and Knock Down. Robilars Gambit and Karmatic Strike are also awesome cause you can know decimate charge attempts on you and clobber archers or ranged attackers.

If you can get a consistent DC 40 tumble check and the Great Cleave property, that's cool too. Dex and Strength help alot. And thicket of blades stance is just evil. :smallamused:

[saxavarius]

Horizon goggles will help negate the distance penalties; i'd also recommend tying a rock/ adamantine shot put to the rope, calling it a meteor hammer and enchanting it as well as the amulet of natural attacks

[Pickford]

Whirlwind Attack is indeed great. Go for it!

EDIT: You can't enchant the rope, but since the damage of drunken master's improvised weapon is based on your unarmed strike damage, you could take a necklace of natural weapon and enchant it with properties like flaming and so on. Your unarmed strike (and your rope) would then do +Xd6 energy damage. Imagine using Whirlwind Attack with a 500 ft flaming rope!

If you check out the back of complete warrior, weapon damage from improvised weapons is also based on their weight. (So if you increase the weight of the weapon, it increases the damage by a not insignificant amount).

[OzymandiasX]

Drunken Master 4 gives reach equal to the length of the improvised weapons you wield.
Hah. Yes, but I think it would be completely reasonable for any GM to rule that a 500' rope is not a weapon, even an improvised one. And yes, rules as written a feather pillow does as much damage as a dagger, but that doesn't make it any less silly. lol




Also, is the name similarity to this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=42176)a coincidence?
Nope. Ozymandias is the ancient Greek name for the pharaoh Ramses II. The name has been used many times in western literature and media. And my middle name is Ramses. :)

[123456789blaaa]

Horizon goggles will help negate the distance penalties; i'd also recommend tying a rock/ adamantine shot put to the rope, calling it a meteor hammer and enchanting it as well as the amulet of natural attacks

Horizon Goggles only grants the Far Shot feat and increases the distance of spells with ranged attack rolls. Are you thinking of another item? :smallconfused:

[Icewraith]

The Drunken Master rules for attacking with improvised weapons state that you do unarmed strike damage +1d4. Apparently size matters not to drunken masters.

[Piggy Knowles]

The Drunken Master rules for attacking with improvised weapons state that you do unarmed strike damage +1d4. Apparently size matters not to drunken masters.

Even without opening that can of worms (there was just a 6+ page argument about the drunken master's ability with improvised weapons), it's irrelevant here - IIRC, the spool of endless rope always weighs 1 lb., so weight bonuses wouldn't apply anyhow.

[Eldest]

The Drunken Master rules for attacking with improvised weapons state that you do unarmed strike damage +1d4. Apparently size matters not to drunken masters.

Was going to bring this up myself. Yeah, the Drunken Master can do the same amount of damage with the Titanic as with a spoon. Funny, to be honest.

[Phelix-Mu]

Was going to bring this up myself. Yeah, the Drunken Master can do the same amount of damage with the Titanic as with a spoon. Funny, to be honest.

Battlefield control Drunken Master?!! WHY, YES, THAT DOES SOUND LIKE A GOOD IDEA.

*mwahahahaha*

Aside from lockdown, it would be pretty cool to just drop strategic terrain around the battlefield, while beating people senseless with the items.

*pictures the Drunken Master pimp-slapping the bad guys with tree tokens*

Sounds like a plan. Glyphs of warding on the improvised weapons? I'll take two, please.

[GnomeGninjas]

How much does this item cost? If it cost a lot then it breaking and becoming useless could be a problem.

[ericgrau]

Ghost with combat reflexes and a ring of x-ray vision to snipe your foes in another room before they know what's going on. Make sure the rope is a personal possession buried in your grave, so that the one you wield is a ghostly copy. #wallhack

[Piggy Knowles]

How much does this item cost? If it cost a lot then it breaking and becoming useless could be a problem.

The beauty of the spool of endless rope is that if any of the rope is damaged or severed, the severed portion disappears and you can pull out more rope from the spool. The only cap is that you can't feed out more than 50 feet in a round, and you can't have more than 500 feet out at once.

[Slipperychicken]

Ghost with combat reflexes and a ring of x-ray vision to snipe your foes in another room before they know what's going on. Make sure the rope is a personal possession buried in your grave, so that the one you wield is a ghostly copy. #wallhack

I find it hilarious to imagine all the WTF on his family members' faces as they see the guy's will requesting that he be buried along with his Ring of X-Ray Vision and Spool of Endless Rope.

[Svata]

I only skimmed on my way down, so I may have missed if someone already mentioned it, but Mage Slayer.

[dascarletm]

if my calc is right. and you sling the spool around 1 time in a round, that spool is traveling at 356 miles a hour (not counting acceleration or deceleration of the spool)

(I got 357 when rounded)

If we can get ~1075 ft of rope we can break the sound barrier. That should give it some sort of enchantment for the sonic boom!

[Pickford]

Even without opening that can of worms (there was just a 6+ page argument about the drunken master's ability with improvised weapons), it's irrelevant here - IIRC, the spool of endless rope always weighs 1 lb., so weight bonuses wouldn't apply anyhow.

Well, that runs afoul of another rule, items that weigh less than 2lbs do no damage at all. (That is to say, they aren't useful as weapons)

edit: And you're mistaken, the 'base' damage is that, same as the 'base' damage on weapons is a set number. Those numbers can be modified and no rule in the game prohibits it.

[Svata]

Specific vs general probably applies here, with the drunken master rules superseding the ones on weapons weighing less than 2 lbs. Otherwise, a dagger wouldn't do any damage.

[Zombulian]

A couple of thoughts...

1. Psionic Fist or Tashalatora and a psionic class seems like a nice tie-in. Why? Because 500 feet of reach isn't very good if you can't see an enemy 500' away. Enter Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer + Mindsight. Turn into a Spellweaver, use Metamorphic Transfer to nab its telepathy. Bang! You've now got Mindsight with a range of 1,000 miles.

2. Alternatively, Duskblade, Whirlwind Attack, full attack channeling. (And you could always pull in Polymorph via Arcane Disciple (Transformation) or something, find a way to cheese in an ML of 5, and still pull the above-referenced trick.)

3. Lockdown fighter with a 500' reach? Yes, please! Thicket of Blades specifically covers any opponent you threaten, so it works nicely with this.

Man. Metamorphic transfer is such a dumb feat.

And Pickford, get out.

[Pickford]

Specific vs general probably applies here, with the drunken master rules superseding the ones on weapons weighing less than 2 lbs. Otherwise, a dagger wouldn't do any damage.

Right, what I'm saying is, the specific rule in no way circumvents the application of the general rule. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And the rules on weight are only for improvised weapons, martial normal weapons would only gain damage from size increases.

edit: The larger point being, an object with <2lbs of weight deals 0 damage.

[123456789blaaa]

Right, what I'm saying is, the specific rule in no way circumvents the application of the general rule. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And the rules on weight are only for improvised weapons, martial normal weapons would only gain damage from size increases.

I can sense that this argument might take over this thread. If you want to continue it, I'd appreciate it if you made a new thread instead of posting about it here.

[Silva Stormrage]

Right, what I'm saying is, the specific rule in no way circumvents the application of the general rule. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And the rules on weight are only for improvised weapons, martial normal weapons would only gain damage from size increases.

edit: The larger point being, an object with <2lbs of weight deals 0 damage.

Even IF you were right on this. It has a simple fix... tie a rock or something to the end of the rope. Problem solved.

[Jormengand]

At epic levels, be a rogue, take improved combat reflexes and sneak attack of opportunity. Anyone who ever provokes an AoO can be hit with a sneak attack, and there is no limit to the number of times you can do this in a round.

[Arundel]

Stuff like this is why drunken master may be my favorite 3.5 PrC.

[gr8artist]

What happens to the rope if you get enlarged? Does it double in length?
I'm assuming you're using this thing in two hands. If not, grab a second and some hate boots and begin full-round-attacking everything that even thinks about coming into range for a fireball spell.
Obviously combat maneuvers are gonna' be handy. Anything that lets you apply a status through a melee attack, also.
See if you can finagle a pounce or something in there as well. Charge (monk movement) and FRA with a 500' rope? Yep.

[Fyermind]

As a note, whirlwind attack only targets adjacent creatures, so it is pretty much worthless, which is a good thing because you were considering wasting feats of it's prerequisites. Lockdown builds are good. Stand still, Thicket of Blades etc. Tripping is also fun. If you can get to be large, you can get knockback to place your friends and enemies where you want them. Ask if you can make attack rolls for touch attacks and get bullrushes on them without dealing damage.

I believe sneak attack works with melee attacks regardless of range. Hamstring could be brutally fun.

Also, don't try to consider real world affects. You are swinging a 500' rope. Don't even try.

[questionmark693]

Unfortunately sneak attack only works within thirty feet, There's a feat in PHBII iirc that doubles it, but yeah, you can't use sneak attack on everybody in the 500' range. I do like the idea of disarming somebody from 500' away though :P

[Drelua]

Unfortunately sneak attack only works within thirty feet, There's a feat in PHBII iirc that doubles it, but yeah, you can't use sneak attack on everybody in the 500' range. I do like the idea of disarming somebody from 500' away though :P


Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Technically, only ranged attacks have that restriction, probably because the designers didn't think of any PC having that much reach.

[Jormengand]

Technically, only ranged attacks have that restriction, probably because the designers didn't think of any PC having that much reach.

Indeed, that was what I was doing.

[Chained Birds]

And from a poster on the minmaxboards: Knight 4 so that all the squares in your reach are difficult terrain.

How annoying would it be for some commoner trying to make good time traveling to a friends house.

"Why is it so difficult to get to Bob's place?! I can't even run! I must be so out of shape!"

[123456789blaaa]

What happens to the rope if you get enlarged? Does it double in length?
I'm assuming you're using this thing in two hands. If not, grab a second and some hate boots and begin full-round-attacking everything that even thinks about coming into range for a fireball spell.
Obviously combat maneuvers are gonna' be handy. Anything that lets you apply a status through a melee attack, also.
See if you can finagle a pounce or something in there as well. Charge (monk movement) and FRA with a 500' rope? Yep.

I...don't know :smallconfused:. I'll ask the Q and A RAW thread.

EDIT: The thread says no because magical properties are not effected by Enlarge Person. The length of rope created by the Spool is a fixed magical property and so is not effected.


As a note, whirlwind attack only targets adjacent creatures, so it is pretty much worthless, which is a good thing because you were considering wasting feats of it's prerequisites. Lockdown builds are good. Stand still, Thicket of Blades etc. Tripping is also fun. If you can get to be large, you can get knockback to place your friends and enemies where you want them. Ask if you can make attack rolls for touch attacks and get bullrushes on them without dealing damage.

I believe sneak attack works with melee attacks regardless of range. Hamstring could be brutally fun.

Also, don't try to consider real world affects. You are swinging a 500' rope. Don't even try.

From the SRD:


When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities

I don't see anything about only targeting adjacent creatures? :smallconfused:

[mattie_p]

I...don't know :smallconfused:. I'll ask the Q and A RAW thread.

EDIT: The thread says no because magical properties are not effected by Enlarge Person. The length of rope created by the Spool is a fixed magical property and so is not effected.

Yeah, sorry, I don't see it working. I wish it did. I've been following this thread with interest, though.

[123456789blaaa]

Yeah, sorry, I don't see it working. I wish it did. I've been following this thread with interest, though.

I'm just surprised that I've never seen anyone bring this up before. I mean I've seen the Drunken Masters ability brought up before but I haven't seen anyone try to find some really long improvised weapons to use it with. They just bring up a rope or a ladder and that's it.

I'll make a list of the stuff mentioned in this thread sometime. Maybe throw up a few build stubs as well.

[Zombulian]

As a note, whirlwind attack only targets adjacent creatures, so it is pretty much worthless, which is a good thing because you were considering wasting feats of it's prerequisites.

Also, don't try to consider real world affects. You are swinging a 500' rope. Don't even try.

Check your eyeballs real quick and get back to us.

And... Fair point.

[Slipperychicken]

Wouldn't a 500ft rope be considered a much larger size category of weapon than a Medium creature could possibly weild? Even if you could get around that, the size penalties would be crippling.

[Zombulian]

Wouldn't a 500ft rope be considered a much larger size category of weapon than a Medium creature could possibly weild? Even if you could get around that, the size penalties would be crippling.

Improvised Weapons don't have size categories. Thus how a table does the same damage as a mug for Drunken Masters.

[Sith_Happens]

Improvised Weapons don't have size categories. Thus how a table does the same damage as a mug for Drunken Masters.

*cough*Which we're trying to not turn this thread into an argument about as well.*cough*

[Dayaz]

What happens to the rope if you get enlarged? Does it double in length?
I'm assuming you're using this thing in two hands. If not, grab a second and some hate boots and begin full-round-attacking everything that even thinks about coming into range for a fireball spell.
Obviously combat maneuvers are gonna' be handy. Anything that lets you apply a status through a melee attack, also.
See if you can finagle a pounce or something in there as well. Charge (monk movement) and FRA with a 500' rope? Yep.

Zhentarim fighter/lion totem barbarian fear build?

EDIT: swing a 500ft rope and anyone hit by it panics lol

[dascarletm]

Zhentarim fighter/lion totem barbarian fear build?

EDIT: swing a 500ft rope and anyone hit by it panics lol

NOT THE ROPE! Anything but the rope!:smalleek:

[mangosta71]

(I got 357 when rounded)

If we can get ~1075 ft of rope we can break the sound barrier. That should give it some sort of enchantment for the sonic boom!
Okay, so what we do, is get 3 spools of endless rope and tie them together... Note: this also brings the weight up to 3 pounds, which eliminates the "no damage for under 2 pounds" argument.

[Jormengand]

Okay, so what we do, is get 3 spools of endless rope and tie them together... Note: this also brings the weight up to 3 pounds, which eliminates the "no damage for under 2 pounds" argument.

The trouble is, when someone cuts the first one, the second and third will detach, even though you can re-grow the first one.

[dascarletm]

The trouble is, when someone cuts the first one, the second and third will detach, even though you can re-grow the first one.

get some call item.

[Dayaz]

NOT THE ROPE! Anything but the rope!:smalleek:

Muwahaha
I like you

[123456789blaaa]

Bad news everyone. A poster on another board pointed out that this trick doesn't actually give 500 ft of reach by RAW:



Sorry to be the spoilsport, but...

Everyone here is missing the point of the earlier quotes (even the one who posted it):

"as reach weapons according to their length"

"Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach."

The ability turns the improvised weapon into a reach weapon if it is long enough. It does not grant reach equal to the length of the weapon.

Reach weapons double your reach unless noted otherwise. The ability does not note otherwise.

Even 500' of silk rope only lets a Drunken Master double his reach.

Note the word I bolded. I believe "according to their length" means that they gain reach according to their length though....yeah, looking at that bit now, it doesn't actually seem to mean anything. Chalk it up to the designers again not quite understanding the rules they were invoking.

And when you're discussing a rules trick as ridiculous as this, you need to be as RAW-correct as possible :smallfrown: . So yeah, you're right.