[Exalted] Explanation?

[junglesteve]

So someone please explain to me whats all this hub bub I hear about a comic featuring demons and a 12 year old being transmogrified. What the heck is exalted all about? Is this like a common theme of the system; to be as ridiculously vile as possible?

[TheCountAlucard]

Check the link in my sig.

[The Rose Dragon]

The first two chapters of the Infernals book are largely considered fanon discontinuity. The rest of the system does not go for the shock value nearly that much.

((Of course, the Infernals book has other problems, but that's just me.))

[Gensh]

So someone please explain to me whats all this hub bub I hear about a comic featuring demons and a 12 year old being transmogrified. What the heck is exalted all about? Is this like a common theme of the system; to be as ridiculously vile as possible?

Certain parts of the Infernals book read like D&D's Book of Vile Darkness, yeah. There's not a whole lot of that in the rest of the setting, and there really isn't supposed to be that much in hell, either. The book was a case of lots of missed memos - hell is supposed to be more like a horror movie about aliens than anything. So you'll still get implanted with horrible monster eggs that rip out of your chest cavity, but nothing like that particular comic+accompanying story bits unless you specifically seek it out. Exalted only rarely stops anyone from doing anything - the point is to see how far humans will go with no limits.

With the exception of this particular bit, the worst things in the setting usually require a double-take to see. Note that I said the worst things. It's still a Bronze Age fantasy, so all the usual atrocities happen in plain sight - it's just that they're usually offscreen.

If you've directly read the article raising the hubbub, you should also be aware that the unofficial April Fool's Day porn magazine "supplement" was the source of several of the more explicit images. Not all of them, mind. The last edition didn't exactly have a high bar for art direction. Still, rather poor journalism there, even for a comedic bit.

[Odd_Canuck]

So someone please explain to me whats all this hub bub I hear about a comic featuring demons and a 12 year old being transmogrified. What the heck is exalted all about? Is this like a common theme of the system; to be as ridiculously vile as possible?

Not hardly. If you're talking about the SA "article" the sex related stuff was from a joke april fools day product (the blatant ones, the excessive boob shot thing is something they're reducing in 3e). As for the transmogrified child thing, it caused a massive backlash when it came out. And I mean massive. Most people simply took a knife and cut the first two chapters out of that book.

Back in the previous edition there was a longish period of time with some oversight and coordination issues on the line, so you had a lot of writers going off in all kinds of directions and some of them went really *really* wrong. To the point where even parts of the same book were not compatible with each other because they were written by different people with different assumptions.

Nobody that had anything to do with that... material... is employed by the company anymore or has any Exalted related contract work from what I've seen, and I pay a great deal of attention.


3e is pretty much a reboot and clean up done by two of the guys (and a staff of freelance writers) that came on in later 2e that churned out mechanically solid stuff (against a crappy mechanical system unfortunately) and good setting material.

3e will absolutely NOT have any of that sick demon warped child stuff. There will still be some art work that involves sexy people, but they're aiming for less cram-more-boobs-into-the-picture-just-because and more sexy because in that situation sexy is appropriate.


In short, that was a mistake on multiple levels done by people no longer associated with Exalted.


If you happen to want to get an idea of what the developers and writers that are working on 3e have done, there are some late 2e books that you could look at to get an idea.

compass of celestial directions autochthonia (a setting book about an enclosed quasi-steampunk world and the lands inside of it, that is slowly dying unless heroes can do something)

Masters of Jade (detailing the mortal-created and controlled World-spanning trading empire)

Shards of the Exalted Dream (an alternative settings book for the game)

[HerrTenko]

Yeah, this particular comic is certainly the vilest **** Exalted ever contained. The Exalted community didn't exactly recieve that stuff well. To be clear : the indignation you are feeling right now? That's exactly how Exalted players felt when the book came out. Not to say you're late to the party or anything, it's just to make it clear that this **** didn't actually go un-noticed.

I think the important thing to remember, and it's important to stress it out, is that none of the writers responsible for that material works on the line anymore, in any way, shape or form. Those people can go eat living wasps as far as I'm concerned. :smalltongue:

[ShadowFighter15]

Yeah, this particular comic is certainly the vilest **** Exalted ever contained. The Exalted community didn't exactly recieve that stuff well. To be clear : the indignation you are feeling right now? That's exactly how Exalted players felt when the book came out. Not to say you're late to the party or anything, it's just to make it clear that this **** didn't actually go un-noticed.

I think the important thing to remember, and it's important to stress it out, is that none of the writers responsible for that material works on the line anymore, in any way, shape or form. Those people can go eat living wasps as far as I'm concerned. :smalltongue:

Pfft; stuff the wasps - lash 'em together with some vitriol-treated soulsteel chains and give 'em to the Yozi to use for housing host-less Infernal Exaltations. Add a little irony.:smallamused:

[Agrippa]

Yeah, this particular comic is certainly the vilest **** Exalted ever contained. The Exalted community didn't exactly recieve that stuff well. To be clear : the indignation you are feeling right now? That's exactly how Exalted players felt when the book came out. Not to say you're late to the party or anything, it's just to make it clear that this **** didn't actually go un-noticed.

I think the important thing to remember, and it's important to stress it out, is that none of the writers responsible for that material works on the line anymore, in any way, shape or form. Those people can go eat living wasps as far as I'm concerned. :smalltongue:

Okay then, what comic are you talking about?

[Andreaz]

Okay then, what comic are you talking about?The one where they are parading Lillun around. One of the first in the Infernals manual.

[HerrTenko]

The one where they are parading Lillun around. One of the first in the Infernals manual.

Yep, this one exactly, it actually opens Chapter 1. Then again I seem to remember Infernals' Chapter 1 and 2 are generally recognized as the worst pieces of writing in Exalted. I sure am glad the new team knows not to repeat the mistakes of the old one.

[Andreaz]

So, going back to the OP: No, they don't pull that stuff all the time. The particular piece you saw was made just for shock and yes, it's pretty infamous and unliked.

Creation is a wonderful world where magic is everywhere but at the same time the common man's life is as bad as it was in Earth's earlier ages. Any problem you can conceive in real life exists in Creation in some fashion. They are to provide you things to do, but I don't think I've seen them played for shock value save for that particular occasion.

[Agrippa]

Fine, then why didn't White Wolf have tighter creative control over 2e Exalted's core writing staff? Or just have them all be on the same page? It shouldn't be all that hard to lay down the general tone of a splat book, let's say the MoEP: The Infernals. Just tell them what is and isn't allowed in the splat and require all the writers to pay attention to each others' work so there are no contradictions in the book. Why didn't White Wolf do that?

[The Rose Dragon]

Fine, then why didn't White Wolf have tighter creative control over 2e Exalted's core writing staff? Or just have them all be on the same page? It shouldn't be all that hard to lay down the general tone of a splat book, let's say the MoEP: The Infernals. Just tell them what is and isn't allowed in the splat and require all the writers to pay attention to each others' work so there are no contradictions in the book. Why didn't White Wolf do that?

I blame Carl Bowen.

[Andreaz]

Why didn't White Wolf do that?"Because", really.

[Tavar]

Fine, then why didn't White Wolf have tighter creative control over 2e Exalted's core writing staff? Or just have them all be on the same page? It shouldn't be all that hard to lay down the general tone of a splat book, let's say the MoEP: The Infernals. Just tell them what is and isn't allowed in the splat and require all the writers to pay attention to each others' work so there are no contradictions in the book. Why didn't White Wolf do that?

Because the editor at the time was overworked, to the extent that he did not actually do his job with regards to Exalted, instead focusing on his other tasks.

It also didn't help that the man in charge at this point seemingly wasn't really clear about what Exalted should be about, plus there were many WoD writers writing for Exalted who also didn't really understand Exalted.

[The Rose Dragon]

It also didn't help that the man in charge at this point seemingly wasn't really clear about what Exalted should be about, plus there were many WoD writers writing for Exalted who also didn't really understand Exalted.

No one is clear what Exalted should be about, except possibly Geoff Grabowski, because it has gone through so many different phases that at this point, any material, no matter how well-written, will be highly divisive, with at least a vocal minority deriding it as the death of everything cool about Exalted ever.

Hell, people are already doing it about Third Edition (I'm more tending towards cautious interest), and it isn't even out yet, and should best be treated as a new game rather than an expansion pack for the old one.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fine, then why didn't White Wolf have tighter creative control over 2e Exalted's core writing staff? Or just have them all be on the same page? It shouldn't be all that hard to lay down the general tone of a splat book, let's say the MoEP: The Infernals. Just tell them what is and isn't allowed in the splat and require all the writers to pay attention to each others' work so there are no contradictions in the book. Why didn't White Wolf do that?

To use a military metaphor, White Wolf is basically fighting two or three wars at once, and for Exalted, they decided to just hire a bunch of mercenaries.

[Tavar]

No one is clear what Exalted should be about, except possibly Geoff Grabowski, because it has gone through so many different phases that at this point, any material, no matter how well-written, will be highly divisive, with at least a vocal minority deriding it as the death of everything cool about Exalted ever.

Hell, people are already doing it about Third Edition (I'm more tending towards cautious interest), and it isn't even out yet, and should best be treated as a new game rather than an expansion pack for the old one.
No: many people are clear about what Exalted should be about. They may disagree, but they have clear ideas. And the team leading Exalted has a very, very clear idea about what it should be about, and are attempting to execute that idea.

The line editor for Exalted 2ed was apparently disinterested in the game, and had no clear idea about what it should be. This lead to, well, 2ed.

[The Rose Dragon]

No: many people are clear about what Exalted should be about. They may disagree, but they have clear ideas.

Ah, see, I was thinking you claimed there was one true vision of how Exalted should be, which I don't think anyone except Grabowski can have. When you put it like this, yes, I agree.

[HerrTenko]

Honestly I think it's also important to remember that Infernals was pretty much a make or break book for Exalted 2nd Ed. Basically at that time the franchise was at an all times low, and the book had to be written in four months, by a bunch of guys who had never worked with each other, never recieved actual guidance or a unifying vision past the very basic "so these guys are exalted by demon princes, get to work" and didn't communicate with each-other.

This of course doesn't excuse the terrible content, but certainly partly explained how it got past the radar.

Also the funny part about this is that despite the first two chapters being what they are, the rest of the book was so well received it actually helped revive the line along with Glories of the Most High and Broken Winged Crane some time later. The later even caused the Infernal Exalted to become incredibly popular in the community, due to some very appealing crunch.

[Tavar]

Honestly I think it's also important to remember that Infernals was pretty much a make or break book for Exalted 2nd Ed. Basically at that time the franchise was at an all times low, and the book had to be written in four months, by a bunch of guys who had never worked with each other, never recieved actual guidance or a unifying vision past the very basic "so these guys are exalted by demon princes, get to work" and didn't communicate with each-other.

This of course doesn't excuse the terrible content, but certainly partly explained how it got past the radar.

Also the funny part about this is that despite the first two chapters being what they are, the rest of the book was so well received it actually helped revive the line along with Glories of the Most High and Broken Winged Crane some time later. The later even caused the Infernal Exalted to become incredibly popular in the community, due to some very appealing crunch.
Pretty sure that's not true. Remember, Scarlet Empress was written as an end of the line book.

Ink Monkey's and Glories helped revive it to an extent, but Infernals apparently was not a direct part of the surge.

Ah, see, I was thinking you claimed there was one true vision of how Exalted should be, which I don't think anyone except Grabowski can have. When you put it like this, yes, I agree.
Given that he's on board with the current Dev team....

[The Rose Dragon]

Given that he's on board with the current Dev team....

You can't believe how giddy I was to hear that, actually.

[Andreaz]

You can't believe how giddy I was to hear that, actually.So am I, but for completely different reasons. Calling his mind as the actual source about what Exalted "is" doesn't really work. He's not commanding the series anymore, and it grew beyond him long ago.

[The Rose Dragon]

So am I, but for completely different reasons. Calling his mind as the actual source about what Exalted "is" doesn't really work. He's not commanding the series anymore, and it grew beyond him long ago.

Don't get me wrong, there are parts where I disagree with Grabowski's vision of Exalted. And he is not the developer anymore, as far as I recall, just a designer. I still hope that his contribution will be valuable to certain themes and moods I felt were neglected in later years of the Second Edition.

[Longes]

I just hope that new material would be like Broken-Winged Crane and not like Scroll of the Monk.

[Andreaz]

I just hope that new material would be like Broken-Winged Crane and not like Scroll of the Monk.If you mean charm quality, please let it be kimbery and not devil-tiger! The latter kinda sucked.

That said, it's basically what the Exigent book will be, but with an actual framework to create charms.

[Asmodai]

Actually, the good parts of the Infernals coupled with Broken Winged Crane revitalized the line. That much is true. The backlash from the Phylactery Womb still shakes the pillars of Heaven.

Mind you, the aforementioned comic wasn't the actual problem (contrary to how SA presented it, there was nothing explicit happening there). The problem was with how little taste the authors had and actually spent a good 5 pages explaining everything about the horrible abuse, mutilation and sex that involved poor little Lillun.

That's of course, just what you should expect - The book was done way too fast, without oversight, and different parts were written by different people with no communication between them.

Thankfuly, we don't have to have as a line editor Mr. I-don't-care-about-content-just-about-grinding-books-out. The people working on Exalted now recognize the values of the First Edition, and have shown time and time again that they are quite aware of the crappy stuff that was pulled throughout the Second Edition.

[Longes]

If you mean charm quality, please let it be kimbery and not devil-tiger! The latter kinda sucked.

Really? What's so bad about Devil-Tiger, except for being really hard to reach?

[The_Snark]

Really? What's so bad about Devil-Tiger, except for being really hard to reach?

I wouldn't say it's bad, exactly. It's a neat idea. It's just that the key Charms can be summarized as "create your own homebrew Charms", and while that can be fun you have to admit it didn't take much effort on the part of the writers.

[Longes]

I wouldn't say it's bad, exactly. It's a neat idea. It's just that the key Charms can be summarized as "create your own homebrew Charms", and while that can be fun you have to admit it didn't take much effort on the part of the writers.

Well, yes. But I don't see any other way to go to "Yozi of Bob" idea.

[Sith_Happens]

Well, yes. But I don't see any other way to go to "Yozi of Bob" idea.

Well, for Bob specifically, I'd start with a Charm to draw an extra card during your upkeep at the cost of a small amount of life.

[Tavar]

Actually, the good parts of the Infernals coupled with Broken Winged Crane revitalized the line. That much is true. The backlash from the Phylactery Womb still shakes the pillars of Heaven.
.
[citation needed]


Well, yes. But I don't see any other way to go to "Yozi of Bob" idea.
Which is the point. Yeah, it's a neat concept, and a nice ancillary thing. But as the main thing(which it is often presented as)? It's pretty bad.

[SaurOps]

To use a military metaphor, White Wolf is basically fighting two or three wars at once, and for Exalted, they decided to just hire a bunch of mercenaries.

Hiring mercenaries is the normal order of the day for WW, and they usually have better results. The problem comes in when the mercs in question are focused down to the bone on terror tactics but hired to train regular soldiers of a newly formed, official army.