A full caster is stranded on a dead magic plane.

[Demonic_Spoon]

A level 20 spell to power erudite wakes up one morning to find that he's been somehow transported to a dead magic plane, and been relieved of all his magical accessories. He knows all spells and powers that he can cast. Can he regain his access to magic? Initiate of Mystra isn't allowed but anything else goes.

As a preliminary, I'm thinking he could of course use the invoke magic spell, but that's level 9 and requires a expensive material component. My second thought is somehow getting a planar bubble effect up, but it's level 7, and the only way I know of of lowering the level is sanctum spell, and invoke magic can only empower spells of fourth level and lower.

Alternatively if another full caster would fare better(initiate of mystra is still not allowed), feel free to try it with them.

Killing himself and waiting for one of his failsafes to resurrect him is not a viable option, in the event of his death his soul will remain trapped on the dead magic plane.

Particulars on the dead magic plane aren't important I think? Perhaps it's modern day earth?

[Urpriest]

Invoke Magic, then Astral Caravan to high-tail it.

[Demonic_Spoon]

Invoke Magic, then Astral Caravan to high-tail it.

Bravo as usual urpriest. However, how would the caster get his hands on a diamond worth at least 1000 gp? Or is there someway of sidestepping the need for the material component.

[Urpriest]

Bravo as usual urpriest. However, how would the caster get his hands on a diamond worth at least 1000 gp? Or is there someway of sidestepping the need for the material component.

For an StP Erudite, spells with material components become powers that cost 2pp more than normal. At level 20 you have the ML for that.

[Demonic_Spoon]

For an StP Erudite, spells with material components become powers that cost 2pp more than normal. At level 20 you have the ML for that.

...it becomes obvious I haven't actually studied the stp erudite in far too long. I'll just leave in shame now.

[Gavinfoxx]

...
I find this hilarious!

[Renen]

Ahh, how much I love psionics :-)

So many psion haters out there

[Spuddles]

These sorts of threads make me want to roll erudite....

[Slipperychicken]

Invoke Magic, then Astral Caravan to high-tail it.

So how do you get around the 1-hour manifest time?

I would, after Invoke Magic, cast Shadow Well (MoF, Sorc/Wiz 4) on myself and voluntarily fail the save, since the casting time fits inside the 1-round limitation in Invoke Magic.

[Urpriest]

So how do you get around the 1-hour manifest time?

I would cast Shadow Well (MoF, Sorc/Wiz 4) on myself and voluntarily fail the save, since the casting time fits inside the 1-round limitation in Invoke Magic. Shadow Well also doesn't have a material component.

Interesting, I had missed the duration on Invoke Magic. Shadow Well is indeed likely the most efficient option, though Sanctum Plane Shift would also work.

[Wings of Peace]

Since material components got brought up, any arcane caster could meet expensive material component requirements (so long as they don't require priceless artifacts) by using defiler magic from Dragon #315.

[Phelix-Mu]

Can a caster prepare spells on a dead magic plane? Or does invoke magic need to be pre-prepared?

[Slipperychicken]

Can a caster prepare spells on a dead magic plane?

I think so. There's nothing magical about spell preparation, and spellcasting is pretty much always lacks an (Su) or (Sp) tag, leaving it as a "natural" ability.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think so. There's nothing magical about spell preparation, and spellcasting is pretty much always lacks an (Su) or (Sp) tag, leaving it as a "natural" ability.

Ah, so additional countermeasures would be needed. Like a plane where "resting" or concentrating was impossible, or something. Maybe some Pandemonium thing like the howling winds.

I almost screamed when I first read invoke magic.

[Demonic_Spoon]

Wizard pops up in the Mundane Shopping Mall of Dullness

Wizard is all like hell no. Throws a flawless diamond to the ground like a smoke bomb and disappears in a puff of sanctumed plane shift.

Mallgoers conclude it was a mass hallucination and the security cameras are simply lying bitches.

Mallgoers scramble across the ground for the diamond, not knowing it was consumed by the spell.

[DMVerdandi]

My favorite class, kicking butt once again.
We need an essential STP erudite spell list. One that lists the best spells and combos for hairy situations like that.

[angry_bear]

Does a dead magic plane actually effect Psionics? I thought that one of the main advantages it had over arcane and divine magics was that it worked where they couldn't?

[Karnith]

Does a dead magic plane actually effect Psionics? I thought that one of the main advantages it had over arcane and divine magics was that it worked where they couldn't?
That's an optional rule, aptly called "Psionics is different." Psionics defaults to transparency/overlap with magic, so that effects relating to magic (spell resistance, antimagic fields, dispel magic, and the like) apply equally to psionics and to magic.

[Slipperychicken]

Ah, so additional countermeasures would be needed. Like a plane where "resting" or concentrating was impossible, or something. Maybe some Pandemonium thing like the howling winds.


The best thing I could think of to keep a caster down is inflicting nonlethal damage such that the caster never wakes up. A "nonlethal coma", as I think of it. If he can't take actions, he can't escape.

Alternatively, use negative levels to drain his spells/day, then force reflexive skill checks (Sense Motive? Listen?) every few hours so the caster can't gain "rest". A character can make Listen checks even while asleep, albeit at -10.

You can also bind and gag the caster, assuming he doesn't have both Silent Spell and Still Spell.

Thankfully, few actual-game casters keep spell slots burnt on either Invoke Magic or Shadow Well, and you're free to disallow the former; no-one would blame you for it.

[Flickerdart]

The problem with needing 9th level spells is that StP Erudites can only learn them if you follow the interpretation that an Erudite can a) give away both of the feats he gets at level 1 to satisfy the "loses Bonus Feat" clause of two ACFs, despite only one actually being called Bonus Feat, and b) treat "Spells" as a psionic discipline. Personally, I subscribe to neither interpretation, but YMMV.

[ahenobarbi]

Another option is Invoke magic -> Rope trick -> you are in place out of the plane so you can manifest freely.

[Chronos]

Personally, I'd go looking for a planar portal. There's got to be one somewhere, else how did I end up there to begin with?

Alternately, if you're using Invoke Magic, Blink (3rd level) would also get you off the plane (at least intermittently), and you could then use more conventional plane-shifting magic and try to time it for when you're ethereal (20% failure chance, so be prepared to try multiple times).

A bigger problem would be an impeded magic plane, say, one where arcane, divine, and psionic magic don't work (but other forms of magic do). In that case, there might not necessarily be a portal (since you could have gotten there some other way), and neither the authors of Initiate of Mystra nor Invoke Magic thought to include impeded-magic planes in their effects.

[Spuddles]

If the dead magic plane is an outer plane, Shadow Well won't work.

[Carth]

A wizard with arcane disciple can get dismissal as a 4th level spell, which is then ready for invoke magic. I forget the domain, but I'm fairly sure it was in the Spell Comp. It might have been balance.

[Spuddles]

A wizard with arcane disciple can get dismissal as a 4th level spell, which is then ready for invoke magic. I forget the domain, but I'm fairly sure it was in the Spell Comp. It might have been balance.

Which means our stp erudite can have it.

[Phelix-Mu]

Killing a wizard sounds possible, even a nice challenge. Killing an StP erudite? Hmm. Sounds like it's time to go butter up my favorite deity with that slay mortal divine salient ability. A favor for a favor.:smallamused:

[Spuddles]

I'm not sure how an stp erudite gets 9th lvl spells known. Sanctum Spell abuse, I guess.

[Psyren]

The problem with needing 9th level spells is that StP Erudites can only learn them if you follow the interpretation that an Erudite can a) give away both of the feats he gets at level 1 to satisfy the "loses Bonus Feat" clause of two ACFs, despite only one actually being called Bonus Feat, and b) treat "Spells" as a psionic discipline. Personally, I subscribe to neither interpretation, but YMMV.

You can also learn them post-epic; simply take Epic Manifestation and research something trivial (the lowest seed DC is 14), and now you know a 10th-level power, thus allowing you to pick up 9ths.


A wizard with arcane disciple can get dismissal as a 4th level spell, which is then ready for invoke magic. I forget the domain, but I'm fairly sure it was in the Spell Comp. It might have been balance.

He can also just use psionic dismissal, which is 4th-level.

[Phelix-Mu]

You can also learn them post-epic; simply take Epic Manifestation and research something trivial (the lowest seed DC is 14), and now you know a 10th-level power, thus allowing you to pick up 9ths.


Say what? Wait, I thought that epic spells/powers were treated like 10th level spells/powers for things like DC calculation, but were distinct from said 10th level things.

Can you source me on where it says they are actually 10th level. My main contradiction is from FR stuff talking about Netheril and how they used to have 10th level spells, but they were removed after the Karsus thingy, and now epic wizards just have to make do with epic spells.

"Just have to make do with epic spells." Just made myself LOL.

[angry_bear]

That's an optional rule, aptly called "Psionics is different." Psionics defaults to transparency/overlap with magic, so that effects relating to magic (spell resistance, antimagic fields, dispel magic, and the like) apply equally to psionics and to magic.

Oh OK, I see now, I had it mixed up. I thought that it was optional that they functioned the same as conventional casting. For quite a while I was pretty dismissive of Psionics because they always seemed OP but, I've been meaning to try them out lately. Only have Complete Psionics as a source on hand right now though...

[Kuulvheysoon]

Oh OK, I see now, I had it mixed up. I thought that it was optional that they functioned the same as conventional casting. For quite a while I was pretty dismissive of Psionics because they always seemed OP but, I've been meaning to try them out lately. Only have Complete Psionics as a source on hand right now though...

If you're on the forums, you have access to the XPH - it was released as part of the OGL, so it's on the d20 SRD.

[Psyren]

Say what? Wait, I thought that epic spells/powers were treated like 10th level spells/powers for things like DC calculation, but were distinct from said 10th level things.

It's a lot broader than that:


Epic Spell Levels
Epic spells have no fixed level. However, for purposes of Concentration checks, spell resistance, and other possible situations where spell level is important, epic spells are all treated as if they were 10th-level spells.

This is a situation where spell level is important, thus epic spells are counted as 10ths.

Epic Powers incorporate this rule as well:


Epic Psionic Seeds
Psionic characters can acquire epic powers. Generally, all the epic spell rules work for epic powers as well, except as noted below for displays.



Psionic characters take the Epic Manifestation feat, which works just like the Epic Spellcasting feat.

[Phelix-Mu]

...snip...

Weird. Well so now there are actual "10th level spell slots" and "conceptual 10th level spell slots" from Improved Spell Capacity. And then there are those historical slots for 10th level spells that were around before Karsus screwed it up for everyone.

*squinting in pain*

Rules like this...in the same book? Oh my. Now that sounds like some language with the kind of gaps through which we could drive the 101st Airborne.

Anyway, at least Improved Spell Capacity doesn't enter into this specific problem.

Time to go look for some painkillers.

[Flickerdart]

You can also learn them post-epic; simply take Epic Manifestation and research something trivial (the lowest seed DC is 14), and now you know a 10th-level power, thus allowing you to pick up 9ths.
True, but given how few people actually play post-Epic it's really more of an optional rule set than anything.

[Psyren]

Well, the Karsus thing is Faerun-specific, and even with that she hasn't banned Heighten Spell, but anyway.

If it helps you feel any better, they still aren't actually any 10th-level spells. Epic Spells are simply "treated as" 10ths if the level is important. Which, as it happens, it is (for StP Erudites.)