A Poor Man's Artificer [PF]

[Anderlith]

So I was wondering if anyone here on the forums had an idea how to replicate the feel of the Artificer in PF. Since there isn't one yet & the 3rd Party one is unbalanced.

I was thinking a Spellslinger archtype with Arcane builder feats?
Or maybe just an Alchemist with a change in fluff?

What's your recommendations?

[Fouredged Sword]

A wizard with craft ranks, and a the set of tools that let you crank out 2000gp of stuff in an hour once per day.

Get one set for wands (craft woodworking), one for scrolls (craft caligraphy) and one for armor/weapons (craft blacksmithing)

Turn 3000gp into 6000gp of items each day.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Try the Forgemaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/forgemaster-cleric-dwarf) cleric. Gets faster crafting, can inscribe runes on equipment, plus standard cleric healing/buffing spell list.

It also has a class feature called "Artificer". :smallsmile:

(Said class feature is a terrible nerf and the only reason to not take the archetype - the rest is pure gold - losing domain choices hurts and artifice domain is terrible. Oh well.)

[Spuddles]

Try the 3.5 one. Just update the skills and you're pretty much done.

[Anderlith]

Try the 3.5 one. Just update the skills and you're pretty much done.

Lots of things don't carry over very well. Reserve, Action points, etc. plus the class design isn't the same, I know that shouldn't be a big deal, but I'm trying not to mix 3.5 & PF

[Anderlith]

Try the Forgemaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf/forgemaster-cleric-dwarf) cleric. Gets faster crafting, can inscribe runes on equipment, plus standard cleric healing/buffing spell list.

It also has a class feature called "Artificer". :smallsmile:

(Said class feature is a terrible nerf and the only reason to not take the archetype - the rest is pure gold - losing domain choices hurts and artifice domain is terrible. Oh well.)

Perhaps I could cobble this onto the Wizard? if I replace Schools & Arcane Bond?

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's up to your DM, I guess?

What's wrong with just using the cleric chasis? It's better than wizard's, other than spell list, and you could always go PF Savant or something to ameliorate that. If it's the religion thing, maybe you could do some sort of adeptus mechanus Warhammer 40k deal, worshipping the machine gods/spirits. *shrug*

It's even sort of int-based, what with the channel energy replacement (undispellable [Su] all day buffs if you're willing to blow the uses/day on it), some of the options being quite good and granting things normally not available so early.

[Anderlith]

It's up to your DM, I guess?

What's wrong with just using the cleric chasis? It's better than wizard's, other than spell list, and you could always go PF Savant or something to ameliorate that. If it's the religion thing, maybe you could do some sort of adeptus mechanus Warhammer 40k deal, worshipping the machine gods/spirits. *shrug*

It's even sort of int-based, what with the channel energy replacement (undispellable [Su] all day buffs if you're willing to blow the uses/day on it), some of the options being quite good and granting things normally not available so early.

Divine has a much different feel from Arcane :/ a holy man forging weapons against evil has a much different flavor of an adventurer mad scientist. Not that I wouldn't use it if I had to. Also I want Int based casting.

[avr]

A sorcerer with the seeker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/seeker) archetype and some crafting feats might work, take the sage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sage) bloodline variant if you want INT based casting.

[Alienist]

Pathfinder crafting is a lot like what would happen if you took Artificer crafting from 3.5, removed all the crap* and slapped it on every caster.

*Where crap is defined as:
(i) book-keeping
(ii) high DCs, requiring lots of (i)

An Artificer in 3.5 has three main advantages:
(1) free crafting feats
(2) free xp pool for crafting
(3) ability to ignore most pre-requisites
(4) totally broken persistent spell

ALL crafters in Pathfinder have the following advantages over 3.5:
(A) more feats
(B) don't spend ANY xp for crafting AT ALL, EVER
(C) happily ignore most pre-requisites
(D) certain things (such as rings) enormously much earlier in the career

Is #1 > #A ?? Of course.

Does the artificer have a heck of a lot more game breaking cheese up his sleeve for GP cost reduction? Of course.**

Does 3.5 Artificer spell-casting blow goats? Of course.***

**Remember to cast protection from book to the face before applying cheese liberally.

***In 3.5 the best solution to the casting time problem is to just scribe the stuff you want to cast at short notice onto scrolls. Don't burn feats on traps like rapid infusion. You need the feats for metamagic, and/or cheesing the gold.

-----

That said, Artificer is an awesome concept, but given the vast improvements**** Pathfinder made to crafting, it just makes the 3.5 Artificer look like a genuinely badly designed pile of junk. (See also Truenamer, not coincidentally also a skill based class, with many of the same _game mechanical_ problems.

****No, they're actually not big changes, but that shows how easy it is to fix 3.5's crafting system, and given that Artificer could have but didn't fix the problems with the system, it makes it stand out in stark relief as a really bad design, or at absolute minimum a missed opportunity.

-----

Given that you don't need to save your xp for levelling, there's really no good reason why Pathfinder casters (both arcane and divine) shouldn't turn themselves into Batman-Wizard-esque monstrosities with hundreds of scrolls covering everything you could have ever dreamed of doing with an Artificer.

If you want to make a minion-mancer, again the Pathfinder version is probably superior, since you're going to blow a feat on Craft Construct (it's insane that the 3.5 Artificer doesn't get that, but as noted before, it is a 'missed opportunity' from a design point of view) anyway.

Artificer in 3.5 has pretty bad support, things like the Cannith Wand Blaster dude PRC seem like such cool concepts, or the elemental binder/grafters, but they suck so much in practice.

-----

Good news everybody! The fix is in!

It's simple really. Pathfinder has a number of 3/4 BAB partial full casters (e.g. like the Bard, except that they get ninth level spell equivalents in their sixth level slots).

Just use that template to roll your own Artificer.

Give him things like:

+ the master crafter ability, bonuses to spellcraft and UMD equal to his level (or half his level, I can't be bothered looking at the Pathfinder pages, and the point is you know what works best for your campaign and what doesn't)
+ freely craft as though he had crafting feats applicable to his level

NB: that'll mean he gets Craft Construct at level 5, and there are boatloads more golems in Pathfinder than 3.5

+ might want to let him bypass the resistances of golems with his spells and/or let his cure light wounds (or clw equivalent) work on golems too (perhaps a lay on hands equivalent but for constructs only? Hands of the master maker?)

+ give him some 'N times per day you can apply metamagic to an item' abilities

+ give him some 'your buddies become awesome too!' spells/abilities to fill out the support role (should spells that grant all your allies a virtual +1 weapon enhancement really be 4th level? Seems ridiculous)

+ spontaneous caster like the Bard/Summoner/Alchemist

+ draw inspiration from the summoner's spell list. It's okay to make Haste a second level spell for instance.

+ give him item/creation themed spells. Yes, including Mage's Disjunction. But give him a True Resurrection equivalent for magic items (but not artefacts)

[Coidzor]

Don't forget the Hedge Magician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician) trait.