Martial Initiator Level 12/Warblade 1 choices?

[CyberThread]

So am curious, if you have the martial level of 12, and you dip one level into warblade, what maneuvers of choice would you select?

[Tulya]

Page 39, selecting martial maneuvers. You can choose maneuvers up to the 6th level as per the chart. The primary limitation on martial adepts in such cases tends to be the individual maneuver prerequisites for X amount of maneuvers from the same school.

Edit: That is, anyone with Initiator Level 17 and access to Stone Dragon can take the 9th level Mountain Tombstone Strike, but you're still going to need to snag four other Diamond Mind maneuvers before you can grab the 9th level Time Stands Still.

[Eldaran]

Well, you should have an IL of 13 (12+1) so 7th level maneuvers actually. I think the choices, though, depend on what the other 12 levels are. Do you need to get damage out of these maneuvers or should you grab utility stuff like White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge.

[Tulya]

Well, you should have an IL of 13 (12+1) so 7th level maneuvers actually.

... Erm, yeah. 12 + 1 is hardly 12. I plead lack of sleep!
Edit: I also misread the question completely. Sigh, I'm going to bed.

[Amidus Drexel]

Avalanche of Blades. Anything that temporarily boosts your attack bonus is great for that strike.

I'd probably pick up Moment of Perfect Mind and Action Before Thought, too, unless I had really good saves all around.

[Vaz]

Without going into Epic, I don't know how you got that IL.

[cerin616]

Without going into Epic, I don't know how you got that IL.

Because he has 13 levels of martial adept classes. And thus his initiator level is 13.

As to answer the question in the thread, I would take things from either stone dragon (primarily ignore DR and hardness strikes) and possibly the iron heart manuvers, as there are some decent tactical manuvers in there (redirect opponent at another, strike additional enemies, stuff like that)

[Turion]

Because he has 13 levels of martial adept classes. And thus his initiator level is 13.

But IL is tracked separately for each martial adept class. So, if you were a Crusader 12/Warblade 1 then you'd have a Crusader IL of 13 12 + 1/2 rounded up), but a Warblade IL of 7 (12 * 1/2 = 6 + 1).

[AmberVael]

Augh, so much misinformation in this thread.

Okay, calculating initiator level-

First, initiator level IS tracked separately for different martial classes, as Turion said. This is clarified on page 39 of Tome of Battle, in the Initiator Level and Multiclass Characters sections. Their example of a Crusader/Swordsage makes it pretty explicit. So, you only use half of the levels in other initiator base classes when calculating initiator level in a second base class.

However, in D&D you round down, not up (unless something specifically says otherwise- and the example makes it clear that initiator levels are not an exception). So the hypothetical Crusader 12/Warblade 1 would have 12 initiator levels for Crusader, and 7 initiator levels in Warblade.

As a side note, Tome of Battle prestige classes do not quite follow these same rules. Those that add initiator progression add their initiator levels to your previous initiator levels, rather than being tracked separately. While it might not be RAI, you can argue that by RAW, they can actually add to the initiator level of multiple base classes at once.

Anyway, your Warblade may select up to 4th level maneuvers, assuming none of that previous initiator level was a prestige class or something and that he does in fact have initiator level 7. I'd definitely be aiming to get Iron Heart Surge among my other maneuvers.

[Amidus Drexel]

But IL is tracked separately for each martial adept class. So, if you were a Crusader 12/Warblade 1 then you'd have a Crusader IL of 13 12 + 1/2 rounded up), but a Warblade IL of 7 (12 * 1/2 = 6 + 1).


Okay, calculating initiator level-


Huh, didn't know that. I'll have to remember that, then.

I'd go for White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge, if you can get both. Ruby Nightmare Blade isn't bad either, and Bounding Assault's pretty good. If you haven't done much to boost your AC, Wall of Blades is nice to have too. It depends on what the other martial adept class is, really; if you've got a Swordsage 12/Warblade 1, you should probably take the Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw maneuvers on your SS side, and the same with Crusader/White Raven stuff.

[Turion]

Augh, so much misinformation in this thread.

Okay, calculating initiator level-

First, initiator level IS tracked separately for different martial classes, as Turion said. This is clarified on page 39 of Tome of Battle, in the Initiator Level and Multiclass Characters sections. Their example of a Crusader/Swordsage makes it pretty explicit. So, you only use half of the levels in other initiator base classes when calculating initiator level in a second base class.

However, in D&D you round down, not up (unless something specifically says otherwise- and the example makes it clear that initiator levels are not an exception). So the hypothetical Crusader 12/Warblade 1 would have 12 initiator levels for Crusader, and 7 initiator levels in Warblade.

As a side note, Tome of Battle prestige classes do not quite follow these same rules. Those that add initiator progression add their initiator levels to your previous initiator levels, rather than being tracked separately. While it might not be RAI, you can argue that by RAW, they can actually add to the initiator level of multiple base classes at once.

Anyway, your Warblade may select up to 4th level maneuvers, assuming none of that previous initiator level was a prestige class or something and that he does in fact have initiator level 7. I'd definitely be aiming to get Iron Heart Surge among my other maneuvers.

Yeah, I'd just noticed that ToB does round down like everything else. For some reason I thought it was the one exception. :smallredface: Thanks for the clarification.

[Fyermind]

You don't have enough maneuvers to grab them from multiple disciplines.

There are some important questions. How do you deal damage? Is it in big chunks on a few attacks, or spread out over several? How much damage do you deal? Is a 4d6 boost to damage meaningful?

It's worth noting that since you get them all at once either none of them can be used as prerequisites or you can use two maneuvers to be each other's prerequisites.

Another question is if you get a first level stance or a seventh level stance. I believe RAW says a first level stance, but these are questions for your DM.

How are your concentration or jump checks?

Moment of Perfect mind, Stance of Clarity, Greater Insightful Strike, and Avalanche of Blades is a very strong set of maneuvers if you have the concentration for it.

A charger could do very well for itself with White raven: Leading the charge, White Raven Tactics, War Leader's Charge, Clarion Call. Because Leading the Charge has no prerequisites you can use it to gain all maneuvers of third level or higher, and White Raven tactics is the best of the third level maneuvers if you don't read Iron Heart Surge as allowing you to make the sun vanish. This grants +13 damage on all charges by all your allies, lets you get an extra 35 damage on one charge, and swift actions for an extra action for an ally, and a swift action to give your allies free attacks or moves after you drop a foe.