How "Meat Loaf Day" backfired

[Sir_Leorik]

So we all know that one of the nobles hired a ninja to assassinate Lord Shojo because Shojo instituted "Meat Loaf Day" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html). But what was "Meat Loaf Day", and why did it lead to Lord Shojo almost getting the Ninja-to shave?

Did Shojo establish a day to celebrate meatloaf? Did he announce that the palace would serve meatloaf once a month? Once a week? Did he require the nobles to serve meatloaf once a month or once a week?

Or did Lord Shojo really like Meat Loaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_loaf) and the nobles couldn't stand his music?

[BenjCano]

Can you blame the assassination attempts if it was the latter? I mean, have you heard I'd Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)?

[Vinsfeld]

We may never know what was "Meat loaf day", but it seems like the reason that Shojo decided to pretend being senile. Perhaps, if he hadn't done that, Azure city would've never fallen. :smalleek:

[NZNinja]

I theorized in another thread that Meat Loaf Day was an initiative to feed the poor by having free food given out - food that was paid for by the nobles.
I believe this is sufficiently random to be a solution that a Chaotic character might make, and with a good enough intent to have come from a Good character.

Although I understand how ' Paradise by the Dash board Light' can be divisive; although I suspect I'd love THAT kind of Meat Loaf day.

[Lord Torath]

I think Meat Loaf day is the GitP version of The Noodle Incident:

Calvin: This is an impossible assignment! I can't write fiction!

Hobbes: What about your explanation of the noodle incident?

Calvin: THAT WAS THE UNVARNISHED TRUTH!!!!*

What was the Noodle Incident (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident)? Bill Watterson left it up to our imagination. I don't know if he even knew what it was.

*This transcript is pulled from memory, and may not be the exact dialog. But it get's the idea across.

[ORione]

Yeah, Rich probably didn't have anything in mind, other than that an assassination attempt over "Meat Loaf Day" sounded funny.

But it's still fun to speculate.

[Ron Miel]

Or did Lord Shojo really like Meat Loaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_loaf) and the nobles couldn't stand his music?

I really like this idea. Let's extend it, just a little. Shojo decided that the people should have an extra holiday every year. Meat Loaf day was a city-wide festival in honour of the singer. Nice one.

[Morquard]

I think it's just to show that if the nobles are ready and willing to kill their leader over something as silly as "Meat Loaf Day" no matter what it is, what do you think they'll do about the really unpopular decisions?

In that light I can totally understand the senile-ruse.

[Sir_Leorik]

Can you blame the assassination attempts if it was the latter? I mean, have you heard I'd Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)?


I really like this idea. Let's extend it, just a little. Shojo decided that the people should have an extra holiday every year. Meat Loaf day was a city-wide festival in honour of the singer. Nice one.

I think that this is the most plausible explanation. The nobles were a bunch of snobs, but the people of Azure City liked to party! (Plus I think the food made of ground meat shaped like a loaf is spelled "meatloaf".)


We may never know what was "Meat loaf day", but it seems like the reason that Shojo decided to pretend being senile. Perhaps, if he hadn't done that, Azure city would've never fallen. :smalleek:


I think Meat Loaf day is the GitP version of The Noodle Incident:

Calvin: This is an impossible assignment! I can't write fiction!

Hobbes: What about your explanation of the noodle incident?

Calvin: THAT WAS THE UNVARNISHED TRUTH!!!!*

What was the Noodle Incident (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident)? Bill Watterson left it up to our imagination. I don't know if he even knew what it was.

*This transcript is pulled from memory, and may not be the exact dialog. But it get's the idea across.

Yeah, it's a "Noodle Incident"; all we know if the Lord Shojo established "Meat Loaf Day" and next thing he knows NINJA!

Calvin's actual response whenever Hobbes raised the original "Noodle Incident" was "That never happened!" Calvin was pretty embarrassed by the whole thing, whatever it was.


I think it's just to show that if the nobles are ready and willing to kill their leader over something as silly as "Meat Loaf Day" no matter what it is, what do you think they'll do about the really unpopular decisions?

In that light I can totally understand the senile-ruse.

Yup. That's the point, but it is fun to guess. That's what makes it a "Noodle Incident"! :smallbiggrin:

[Belkar<3]

I love Calvin and Hobbes, by the way. Noodle Incident was hilarious.

I think the edict would be popular with the commoners and unpopular with the nobles, thus the assassination attempts.

[brionl]

Ooh, I know. Somebody said "Eddy is such a tender boy" one too many times.

[Roland Itiative]

I think the joke is that the Azure City aristocracy is dysfunctional that something as simple as a "meatloaf day" can trigger an assassination attempt.

[Ron Miel]

I's just occurred to me, if it is a festival in honour of the singer ...

...it's a day of Aday.

[Bulldog Psion]

My thought was that it was always just supposed to be an assassination attempt over something utterly trivial. Like trying to assassinate Shojo because of "Talk Like a Pirate Day" or something.

[martianmister]

Shojo actually admitted that "Meat Loaf Day" was an unpopular act (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html), so it's probably not welcomed by the people.

[AstralFire]

50-50 odds on the words "Meat Loaf Day" being uttered and the nobles reacting merely on the title, assuming it was one thing or another.

I am dubious that this led to the downfall of Azure City, though. It would have taken someone far more intelligent than the already quite crafty Shojo to avoid the eventual snarl in their plans. CGs manage to play the nobles and run into walls with the inflexible Sapphire Guard; LGs have the opposite problem.

[Dire Lemming]

Meat Loaf Day was unpopular because it was an annual holiday in in which it was suggested meatloaf be worshiped in lieu of the Twelve Gods (rather than alongside them). :smallamused:

I'm certainly not making any statement here, and have no wish to insult religions or the lack thereof. My apologies if it appears as such.

[davidbofinger]

In a desperate attempt to come up with something that could possibly be true:

Azure City had a shortage of high quality meat so poor people could at best eat meatloaf. Meat Loaf Day was one day a year when the city's restaurants were required to sell meat loaf instead of their usual fare, and nobles were required to eat in them in public view. The idea was that if nobles were seen eating meatloaf then the commoners wouldn't mind so much that they had to eat it.

It was a dumb and intrusive idea put forward by an inexperienced Shojo. An older, wiser and more chaotic Shojo would have admitted as much.

Dire Lemming's idea has more style, though.

[Gopher]

I never thought it was supposed to be a noodle incident. I thought it was simply a reference to cafeterias in schools and such having designated days for designated entrees. Like, "Thursday is meat loaf day, Friday is pizza day."

Of course, it leads to the question of what cafeteria has its menu set by the ruler or a city-state.

[Warren Dew]

I never thought it was supposed to be a noodle incident. I thought it was simply a reference to cafeterias in schools and such having designated days for designated entrees. Like, "Thursday is meat loaf day, Friday is pizza day."

Of course, it leads to the question of what cafeteria has its menu set by the ruler or a city-state.
Clearly, Thursday had previously been hamburger day, and Shojo for some reason decreed that it would be replaced by meat loaf. Maybe the noble whose people prepared the hamburgers was threatening to withhold their services in order to get better payment, and Shojo tried to short circuit that by having the palace bakers prepare meatloaf instead, not bargaining on the pressure that would be placed on parents by children going through hamburger withdrawal.

[Vinsfeld]

Like, "Thursday is meat loaf day, Friday is pizza day."

If they had had a pizza day, Shojo wouldn't have been attacked.

[Gopher]

^^That works.

^You haven't tried the pizza they had at my elementary school. School cafeterias can ruin anything.

[Carry2]

I theorized in another thread that Meat Loaf Day was an initiative to feed the poor by having free food given out - food that was paid for by the nobles.
I believe this is sufficiently random to be a solution that a Chaotic character might make, and with a good enough intent to have come from a Good character.
Well I wouldn't exactly call it 'random', but it could easily have been a 'departure from tradition', depending on what what kind of obligations the nobles had beforehand.

What I find more puzzling is how Shojo got away with faking senility, because the specific way he behaved in public doesn't really qualify as insane (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Fiends_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Morality_and_Fiends#Ethics_Option_2:_A_Question_of _Sanity). (Actually crazy people can be recognised by saying things and doing stuff that don't make sense. Shojo's pronouncements were always perfectly lucid, he just gave credit for them to a cat.)

[ericgrau]

It's simple. Some people reaaaaally don't like meatloaf. It's an old trope which the Giant exploited. See also: broccoli.

"Meatloaf day" is something stereotypically found in some cafeterias. Like the meatloaf itself, it is often unpopular.

[NZNinja]

Well I wouldn't exactly call it 'random', but it could easily have been a 'departure from tradition', depending on what what kind of obligations the nobles had beforehand.

The randomness to which I refer is the attempt to solve hunger due to poverty with free meat loaf. There would surely be better ways to do so: improving irrigation to increase crop yields, researching better pest control methods to reduce food loss to vermin, improving relationships with agricultural trade partners. But a Chaotic character may instead decide to solve the problem by proclaiming: "let them eat cake meatloaf!" without worrying too much about who is going to have to pay for the ingredients, the preparation or the fuel to cook all that delicious meatloaf.


What I find more puzzling is how Shojo got away with faking senility, because the specific way he behaved in public doesn't really qualify as insane (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Fiends_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Morality_and_Fiends#Ethics_Option_2:_A_Question_of _Sanity).

Without arguing the definition of senility, eccentricity and insanity here, Shojo was (publicly, at least) demonstrating his eccentric and borderline-insane behavior: specifically, publicly asking for and appearing to take political advice from Mr Scruffy, a common white house cat. I hope we can all agree that this would be an inappropriate way for any ruler to act ("...an insane person reacts inappropriately to their surroundings..." from your reference material, Tome of Fiends 3.5e).
It is worth noting that this put-upon eccentricity does not appear to have been sufficient to qualify as full-blown insanity, or else Hinjo (or Kubota, or someone else) would have taken the reins of leadership from Shojo; which is probably a good indicator of the quality of advice Mr Scruffy was being credited with.


(Actually crazy people can be recognised by saying things and doing stuff that don't make sense. Shojo's pronouncements were always perfectly lucid, he just gave credit for them to a cat.)

I'm not even going to start on fast and loose definitions of how crazy people can be recognised; but if asking a cat for political advice seems sensible to you - as long as the cat responds lucidly! - then you have a much lower limit for sensible actions than I do. And given my already low standards, that's saying something.

[AstralFire]

Well, if I saw a person who did perfectly logical things and attributed them to a cat, I'd assume he was just acting. However, I don't doubt that Shojo threw in obviously irrational actions of consequence just to keep up the pretense, so long as they were not acts of major evil.

I do agree that he hardly comes off as "weak-willed" or "feebleminded" so much as "weird" through the whole court scene, and if Roy did not have "judgmental" as a character flaw, he should have seen through it as easily as Haley did. Durkon probably should have, too.

[Carry2]

The randomness to which I refer is the attempt to solve hunger due to poverty with free meat loaf. There would surely be better ways to do so: improving irrigation to increase crop yields, researching better pest control methods to reduce food loss to vermin, improving relationships with agricultural trade partners.
Well, depending on the initial economic setup of AC, there might not actually be a problem with crop yields, pest control or agricultural partners, just with wealth being unequally distributed so that some fraction of the city's population can't afford protein. In which case free meatloaf wouldn't be the worst solution in the world. *shrugs*

Well, if I saw a person who did perfectly logical things and attributed them to a cat, I'd assume he was just acting.
That's more-or-less what I'm talking about. I suppose he could get away with certain harmless eccentricities (http://members.gamedev.net/trapperzoid/images/misc/oots/oots_theatre_cats.png), but over several decades, I suspect it's very difficult to come off crazy while acting smart.

[Gnoman]

The "smart" behavior was believed to have come from one noble or another.

[skim172]

"Meat Loaf Day" was a poorly executed attempt to make up for the ill-advised "Sausage Fest" from the year before.

[The Pilgrim]

The noble behind the assasination attempt was a vegetarian.

Notice the ribbon color of the ninja.

[Carry2]

The noble behind the assasination attempt was a vegetarian.

Notice the ribbon color of the ninja.
Well, there's always that explanation.

[Warren Dew]

The noble behind the assasination attempt was a vegetarian.

Notice the ribbon color of the ninja.
Good point. I retract my suggestion in favor of yours, which is far funnier.

[brionl]

"Meat Loaf Day" was a poorly executed attempt to make up for the ill-advised "Sausage Fest" from the year before.

OK, now you better be watching out for the Ninjas.

[theinsulabot]

little known fact, meat load is actually how lord shojo refereed to intercourse. meatloaf day was part of his plan to add all unmarried women between 16 and 40 to his harem along with most of the prettier married ones.