Ramifications of inherent teleportation.

[LanSlyde]

So, I've got a campaign idea in which the majority of the campaign takes place in a demiplane of indeterminate size. One of the inherent properties of the plane is something akin to 'fast travel'. Once you discover a location of interest you may return to it simply by thinking about it and walking. The magic of the plane takes you there instantly, or so your senses would have you believe. Time flows strangely when you 'fast travel', so you might end up being hours or days since you first began the transport. Aside from that, another aspect of the plane is that means of magical flight and intraplanar teleportation do not function at all. What this means is that spells like dimension door and teleport do not work, but plane shift and blink work just fine.

I would like the playgrounds thoughts on how poorly this might turn out. What would you do in a situation like this? Any ideas you people might have on how to exploit this?


Full campaign idea below

Basically our heroes will start on the Material Plane in the middle of the apocalypse. I'm leaning towards dropping Ragnorra, Father Lymic, or Sertrous on them. They will start around level 6 or 8. The whole first session will involve them working their way through the streets of a major city towards a gate out of the realm. The NPC heroes ended up getting themselves gibbed and now no ones left to stop it the end of days from occurring. So assuming they survive the 1st session, they make it to neverland. Time flows exceedingly fast within the demiplane. So once they are within time on the Material will seem to stop entirely. After they arrive it will basically be a sandbox campaign. This demiplane was created from the collaborative effort of the three most powerful casters in my campaign and has been grown and molded for millennia, but relatively unknown to the populace until recently. The creators opened it up to the public shortly before everything went to hell.

Aside from the traits I listed above, seasons within the plane exist and well as night and day. They also have a number of effects on magic within the plane. Is it summer? Fire spells are empowered and cold spells are half as effective and the opposite can be said for winter. Day and night provide similar effects for positive and negative energy effects as the plane has two 'suns'. Each infused with either positive or negative energy. There are a number of other effects active on the plane, but I won't spoil them for my players. :smallwink:

So to summarize, the apocalypse happened, our noble heroes are sent to neverland. Once there they can do whatever they want, including leave the plane, maybe return to the Prime Material when they feel confident in their abilities, or just stay on the plane and make themselves kings. They could even shift out to other planes. I mean, if the prime material is boned, why go back and try to pick up the pieces?

[Darrin]

Sounds a little like "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester. As I recall, the issues of personal security and imprisonment get rather complicated.

[LanSlyde]

Sounds a little like "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester. As I recall, the issues of personal security and imprisonment get rather complicated.

Never read it, but I can see your point. I'll have to draw lines on just how precise the teleportation effect is and just how specific your destination can be.

[Regitnui]

That's an Elder Scrolls thing, isn't it? Fast travelling between known places? I preferred the system in Morrowind: fast travel betweem certain cities but walk or ride everywhere else. Thinking up the fastest way to get somewhere helped the game come alive.

But in a D&D campaign, isn't travel already treated like 'teleportation' with time passing? The players are in point A, need to be in point B, and the trip there is mostly ignored except for how fast they go and encounters. It sounds very similar to what the OP proposed mechanically, but prove me wrong.

[Alex12]

If you're going to be eliminating teleportation (at least for the primary location of the campaign), that might require some minor tweaks for balance, or at least let the party know beforehand. Just off the top of my head, I know I'd be irritated if I built a Shadow Hand swordsage and then was told that nope, my short-range teleport maneuvers aren't going to work.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would change the rules to allow for short range teleportation. Just say that you so a single short blink effect and DD while outside the plane. If you don't like tactical teleportation, say the spells are brand new, and occupy a slot higher as they get around the planer traites of your plane.

Also, replace telportation rather than discard. Make a set of spells to slot into the travel domain and other spell lists that decreases the fast travel time requirement. I would also add it to the ranger list, just because it seems fitting.

As for fast travel itself, call it the skyway. The whole of the plane is a infinitely small, but negative curve. Up leads to the center of the universe, and thus all places. This makes flight impossible (magical energy flows up to the center, draining the magic) and you can fast travel anywhere by looking directly into the center of the universe. You can imprison someone by keeping them from seeing the sky. You can go anywhere visible from the sky and well known to you (+- a few hundred feet). A skystone is a item that once placed, makes skyway travel to it precise, and leaving much faster. They are used in cities and towns to make travel easy.

A person can spend one minuet staring at the sky while staying still and move sideways onto the skyway.

Side note- Bandits don't exist, trade is low risk, so goods are very cheep. The mail always gets through.

[Phelix-Mu]

Sounds a little like "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester. As I recall, the issues of personal security and imprisonment get rather complicated.


Never read it, but I can see your point. I'll have to draw lines on just how precise the teleportation effect is and just how specific your destination can be.

This is clearly a problem. Consider using some kind of custom ward spell that stops just anyone from waltzing into the city square, or which makes sure that certain places can't be bypassed. If the city guards can't check people coming into the city for bombs or pet pit fiends, then why have walls at all? In fact, why have cities?

If you want to avoid this, you could redesign culture from the bottom up. Personal space is not assumed, and everyone equally shares in ownership of everywhere. Not much point in owning area X if you can't regulate the comings and goings of other people, after all. Sadly, such a culture often is either highly Utopian (everyone gets along), highly exploitative (strong guy comes and takes what he wants), or just highly anarchic, which can pigeonhole flavor in an undesirable way.

It's an interesting idea, though. Good luck.

[Fouredged Sword]

I like the idea of a ward. Make it something that lasts a good number of days and covers a large area.

Maybe

Skyward (abjuration) - sorc/wis 3, cleric 4, druid 3, ranger 2, paladin 3
Casting time - 15min or greater
Range - touch
Area - Area inscribed in magic runes, no more than 10*CL feet along any axis.
Duration - 1 day per CL

The caster walks the outline of the warded area, touching surfaces. Each time the surface is touched by the casters hand, a rune is left. These runes are roughly 3" across and visible to all as sharp black versions of the draconic (arcane) or celestial/demonic (divine) rune for "earth".

These runes must be no more than 5 ft/(3CL) apart or the effect does not function. A rune can be destroyed by marring the surface it sits on. This is done by dealing 3HP worth of damage to the surface (hardness applies). If a full circumference of runes still exists despite the lost rune, the spell still functions, but the area may or may not decrease. If the runes cannot enclose are area within themselves, the spell fails immediately.

A dispel targeted at any part of the ward effects the spell as a whole.

No fast travel is possible anywhere fully enclosed by this ward. This is a prismatic shape that extends up an unlimited amount.

It would explain why wizards build towers, it would be easier to ward the inside of the stone walls and prevent entry.

[Spuddles]

This is clearly a problem. Consider using some kind of custom ward spell that stops just anyone from waltzing into the city square, or which makes sure that certain places can't be bypassed. If the city guards can't check people coming into the city for bombs or pet pit fiends, then why have walls at all? In fact, why have cities?

If you want to avoid this, you could redesign culture from the bottom up. Personal space is not assumed, and everyone equally shares in ownership of everywhere. Not much point in owning area X if you can't regulate the comings and goings of other people, after all. Sadly, such a culture often is either highly Utopian (everyone gets along), highly exploitative (strong guy comes and takes what he wants), or just highly anarchic, which can pigeonhole flavor in an undesirable way.

It's an interesting idea, though. Good luck.

Culture would be different because it would be easier to steal without getting caught. I mean it wouldn't be that hard to break into my neighbor's house, but someone might see me.

Oh wow, it wouldnt make things communal, it would make society extremely secretive, private, cryptic, and guarded. Houses would be labyrinthine quasi-burrows with strange internal furnishing and non-structural architecture so not even the builders could teleport in.

No one would have friends over. Communal spaces would become important due to how absolutely sacrosanct privacy would become.

[Darrin]

Oh wow, it wouldnt make things communal, it would make society extremely secretive, private, cryptic, and guarded. Houses would be labyrinthine quasi-burrows with strange internal furnishing and non-structural architecture so not even the builders could teleport in.


Yep, that was a feature in "The Stars My Destination". The teleport thing was called "jaunting". You had to be able to see your destination, and there was a limit on how far you could jaunt. Prisons had to be literally in the middle of nowhere, several hundred miles from any recognizable structure, and were kept perpetually in total darkness to prevent the prisoners from jaunting out of their cells.

Even with houses constructed as labyrinths, protecting women and children would be difficult. They would become prisoners, never allowed out in public, where a group of kidnappers/attackers could appear/disappear instantly. Warfare would be a series of bizarre split-second ambushes: jump in, stab/shoot, jump out.

[Gildedragon]

Alternatively social taboos keep things in check. Going into someone's house uninvited might be seen as akin to rape. Personal spaces are very controlled geographically by visual markers and other indicators; and are inherited. Houses might be very open, doors that provide minimum obstruction, for one. Note that kidnapping is very difficult in this world.

Or the culture could be nomadic, an only loosely organized. Like hunter gatherers, but teleportation means that horticulture might be adopted. Bands are loose affiliations, clans control particular resource locales.

Or feudal territories are patchy and disjointed. Neighbors in one same "town" owe fealty to different lords, and a lord's stronghold might be closer to another lord's vassals than their own. Areas of influence are tracked through descent and kin as opposed to geography.
War and raiding are highly ritualized and performed during particular times with particular rules.

Addendum:
I like the idea; ragnora is a good one. It'd be especially cool if the players get to save the world; with the effective time-stop effect they could waltz back to the PMP and save the day. Giving hints the world isn't entirely lost during their stay in narnia would be vital for that to happen.

[JusticeZero]

Honestly, i'd limit it to traveling between prepared and notoriously visible waypoints. That's basically just a transit system similar to airports, which we have and can model. opening it up much more than that makes things very, um, "clever", and you will outsmart yourself with all sorts of unintended and unforseen consequences.

[Amoren]

Of note, the teleportation line of spells are actually extra-planar travel. They jump to the Astral Plane and then jump back to the real plane. It's, at least from the quasi-physics of the setting, exactly the same as plane shifting to the Astral plane (or hell, another plane), and then plane shifting back at your chosen destination. So, if the main teleportation line of spells don't work, then something would have to impede the double plane shift travel method as well. If I remember right, every conjuration (teleportation) spell functions this way.

Found this out for my own home setting, where none of the other planes exist (at least, knowingly exist). That pretty much ripped most of the teleportation spells out as a consequence.

[Phelix-Mu]

Of note, the teleportation line of spells are actually extra-planar travel. They jump to the Astral Plane and then jump back to the real plane. It's, at least from the quasi-physics of the setting, exactly the same as plane shifting to the Astral plane (or hell, another plane), and then plane shifting back at your chosen destination. So, if the main teleportation line of spells don't work, then something would have to impede the double plane shift travel method as well. If I remember right, every conjuration (teleportation) spell functions this way.

Found this out for my own home setting, where none of the other planes exist (at least, knowingly exist). That pretty much ripped most of the teleportation spells out as a consequence.

But you could easily re-style teleport as molecular transit, mystical wormholes, subspace movement, hyperspace, some kind of resonance feature (there were a series of Anne McCaffrey novels with a cool thing like this), or just some kind of trans-light speed movement. Life without the Astral Plane isn't impossible, just takes refluffing to avoid losing the access to instantaneous transport.

[JusticeZero]

I leave the Ethereal and Astral in even when ripping everything else out. The Ethereal is fluffed as "a thousandth of a second out of phase" by the rules, and the Astral has historically been fluffed in the books as being the location at #-1 Loc Out Of Range #ERR:InvalidTarget that people have learned how to hack predictably for spells.

[Darrin]

Honestly, i'd limit it to traveling between prepared and notoriously visible waypoints. That's basically just a transit system similar to airports, which we have and can model. opening it up much more than that makes things very, um, "clever", and you will outsmart yourself with all sorts of unintended and unforseen consequences.

Then that's more or less a Tippyverse world.

[Gildedragon]

Except for the overcoming of limited supplies and scarcity.
They'd be more like port cities, or towns at natural crossings: focal points for trade

[Spuddles]

Teleporting anywhere would dramatically lower transaction costs. It would be a huge, unimaginably big step towards a more efficient economy and a better life for everyone. That would likely reduce crime rates. More productive socities tend to have less personal and violent crime.

[Spuddles]

Except for the overcoming of limited supplies and scarcity.
They'd be more like port cities, or towns at natural crossings: focal points for trade

That's not a feature of the tippyverse. It's overcoming transaction costs via teleportation circles. That's it. It isn't a society post-scarcity, it's just one with virtually no significant transaction costs.

[JusticeZero]

We understand the ramifications of point to point travel. We HAVE point to point travel, albeit in a way that's a bit more limited. You can ponder what that means. Unlimited travel is going to spiral into chaos.

You want to bring Tippy in? Fine. Imagine that Tippy were to actually become a wizard, and pull all his tricks, and train others to think like him. Then they all research new PrCs and spells. Then two hundred more people who are just as prone to bending the universe over in creative and mindblowing ways as Tippy is pore over everything the hundred Tippy apprentices have created, and make new Tippy-relevant strategies and counterstrategies. Now repeat that cycle two or three more times. Now each one of these hyper-Tippies go out and teach everything they have come up with to every single person on the planet as standard procedure and "well duh, everybody knows to do that".

Can you predict just what sort of ludicrous and cracked things they will have come up with? No? Neither can I. Neither can Tippy. But your entire campaign world is going to be based around these strategies if you put clever things in. This is why I tell people not to be clever; every day people will come up with two ways to completely reshape the world based on any of your clever universe changes, and each time, the world has to evolve to cope with them. Every NPC around is pretty bright and creative, and you are trying to avoid creating these huge holes where "Gee, an entire country full of clever people didn't see that easy trick that any commoner can use".

The only time such a thing is even remotely justified is in a case where literally everyone else in the world is as clueless about how any of the new stuff works as the players are, and in that case you need to be ready to spend an hour a day plotting out creative and flat out abusive ways to make a buck or wreak havok using your one bit of wonk or the systems created by wonk-users so that you will have ideas for what they find some commoner doing the next day.

[Spuddles]

We understand the ramifications of point to point travel. We HAVE point to point travel, albeit in a way that's a bit more limited. You can ponder what that means. Unlimited travel is going to spiral into chaos.

You want to bring Tippy in? Fine. Imagine that Tippy were to actually become a wizard, and pull all his tricks, and train others to think like him. Then they all research new PrCs and spells. Then two hundred more people who are just as prone to bending the universe over in creative and mindblowing ways as Tippy is pore over everything the hundred Tippy apprentices have created, and make new Tippy-relevant strategies and counterstrategies. Now repeat that cycle two or three more times. Now each one of these hyper-Tippies go out and teach everything they have come up with to every single person on the planet as standard procedure and "well duh, everybody knows to do that".

Can you predict just what sort of ludicrous and cracked things they will have come up with? No? Neither can I. Neither can Tippy. But your entire campaign world is going to be based around these strategies if you put clever things in. This is why I tell people not to be clever; every day people will come up with two ways to completely reshape the world based on any of your clever universe changes, and each time, the world has to evolve to cope with them. Every NPC around is pretty bright and creative, and you are trying to avoid creating these huge holes where "Gee, an entire country full of clever people didn't see that easy trick that any commoner can use".

The only time such a thing is even remotely justified is in a case where literally everyone else in the world is as clueless about how any of the new stuff works as the players are, and in that case you need to be ready to spend an hour a day plotting out creative and flat out abusive ways to make a buck or wreak havok using your one bit of wonk or the systems created by wonk-users so that you will have ideas for what they find some commoner doing the next day.

tl; dr
Don't have fun because you arent smart enough to imagine things properly.


Gee, thanks guy.

[JusticeZero]

Teleporting anywhere would dramatically lower transaction costs.
It would be a huge, unimaginably big step towards a more efficient economy and a better life for everyone.
Right. We already live in a universe like that, and there are entire fields of science that have their minds blown just trying to comprehend how that works. Most people just can't figure it out, but they still deal with a world shaped by these things. When you start trying to explain to people that a major part of why the world is why it is is because Tokyo is closer in every meaningful way to Manhattan than Harlem is and that major parts of our economy are dedicated purely to crafting and manipulating symbols, minds start melting down.

And by the way, even though we have already shredded our real world transaction costs, the positive results haven't happened in the ways that optimists expected. Those scales are tilted toward aiding large actors who can build symbol-factories that exist simultaneously across the borders of four non-adjacent time zones at once, and labor and markets can be shifted around in all sorts of interesting ways that nobody was able to predict would happen. A whole host of other peculiar and counterintuitive things go on that make the effects go in even more odd directions.

The long and short of it is that we barely even understand how the technologies we have now work in society, and huge "clever" tweaks create vastly intrusive technological changes that quickly explode beyond your ability to understand them.

[JusticeZero]

tl; dr
Don't have fun because you arent smart enough to imagine things properly.
Gee, thanks guy.
It's more that as soon as the players sit down and think about it, they will come up with a multitude of ways to abusively shred the universe in ways that realistically, the residents would already know about and adapted for by creating and rearranging society in ways that they flat out have not been seen doing. And next week, your players will look at how the world is described and do it again. They'll often do it completely by accident. The end effect generally is that the GM gets frustrated and scraps the campaign rather quickly.

I consider aborted campaigns a bad thing, and I like campaigns that run a long time; the one factor I see in common with those is that the tropes are pretty simple and revolve around a pretty standard world with a historical or cultural or economic event of comprehensible scope fueling the chaos the PCs thrive in.

[LanSlyde]

It's more that as soon as the players sit down and think about it, they will come up with a multitude of ways to abusively shred the universe in ways that realistically, the residents would already know about and adapted for by creating and rearranging society in ways that they flat out have not been seen doing. And next week, your players will look at how the world is described and do it again. They'll often do it completely by accident. The end effect generally is that the GM gets frustrated and scraps the campaign rather quickly.

I consider aborted campaigns a bad thing, and I like campaigns that run a long time; the one factor I see in common with those is that the tropes are pretty simple and revolve around a pretty standard world with a historical or cultural or economic event of comprehensible scope fueling the chaos the PCs thrive in.

I see your issue, luckily I can think on my feet fast enough enough to come up with a logical reason to counter most unforeseen shenanigans on the fly. So while I'm sure issues will arise within the campaign, I really don't think its going to be as great an issue as you blow it up to be.


Of course, instead of explaining how terrible an idea this could be, instead the playground could help me patch it? That was the main point of telling the playground about this and most of the posts thus far have contributed some way to helping me patch the holes in this idea.

[Amoren]

I leave the Ethereal and Astral in even when ripping everything else out. The Ethereal is fluffed as "a thousandth of a second out of phase" by the rules, and the Astral has historically been fluffed in the books as being the location at #-1 Loc Out Of Range #ERR:InvalidTarget that people have learned how to hack predictably for spells.

Its due to one of the plots of the setting, really. Mind you, the Ethereal plane would likely remain (since I consider it something different than the other planes, and that description does bypass the plot reason). Astral, however, is probably still out. To put it in perspective, wizards and other scholars don't even think there are such things as planes or other levels of reality besides their own, because every attempt to verify this has fallen flat. Having access to the Astral Plane would ruin that, because its a demonstration of another plane of existence that one can physically travel to (relatively easily for very short times with teleportation spells). Meanwhile, the ethereal plane is close enough to the prime material that the wizards and scholars of this setting wouldn't even think of describing it as a 'plane'.

And yes, it could be reflavored or redone in a different style. But I like the idea of it not being main stream, since it would be more difficult, and the PCs are free to try to invent their own method of teleportation that doesn't rely upon the Astral plane as well (heck, it might not even be a conjuration spell, depending on how they flavor it).

[Phelix-Mu]

heck, it might not even be a conjuration spell, depending on how they flavor it.

And that would be suspiciously balanced.

As to the larger point, the DM's word is law, and if the DM can manage it and has a sound basis for the unique rules of the setting (and greater system mastery than the players never hurts), then it should be fine. Some unexpectedness is okay; after all, the PCs are the center of a potentially world-altering plot line.

Moreover, I really like this idea. A kind of mystical physics thing going on that deviates from standard cosmology is cool and unusual. I personally like the core cosmology (I'm a 2e veteran, so it has great nostalgia), but cool uniqueness is cool and unique.

As the OP laid it out in the first post, it probably isn't going to be quite as crazy as at will tele everywhere or teleport circles on every streetcorner. More like a very interconnected subway system that travels so fast that it might as well be instantaneous. I imagine there will still be some walking about, and of course it will be wise to not port blindly into potentially dangerous areas.

Divinations will be more important, I just realized, because porting about will make it very, very useful to see where you are going. Might want to keep an eye on proliferation of divination scrolls for UMD and such.

[JusticeZero]

Having access to the Astral Plane would ruin that, because its a demonstration of another plane of existence that one can physically travel to (relatively easily for very short times with teleportation spells)
Sure. It doesn't necessarily prove different planes though; you get to the Astral by trying to go to somewhere like sqrt(-1); your location hasn't necessarily left the plane, it just contains invalid coordinates. If it was a video game, you're still on the same map, but it's on the wrong side of the terrain and out of bounds. You haven't "zoned" to a different plane.

[LanSlyde]

So after reading and contemplating, this is what I have come up with to address the issues that you mentlegen brought to my attention. As everyone could essentially warp in and out of known destinations with no issue.

Security seemed to be the primary concern here. So what we have is where personal privacy became absolutely essential to life. No one built their homes in the open, everything is concealed either below ground or someplace that would be terribly difficult to locate. Hell, the actual entrances to these homes may have been sealed off entirely. The only way in or out being through warping.

Interacting with other people would end up taking place in highly communal and visual areas. Basically cities would not really be cities but attractive locales for people to gather and sell their wares. Inn might exist, but travelers would stay at them at their own risk.

Bandits and other questionable individuals would honestly have the most difficult time or would not exist in the traditional sense. 'Bandit Camps' would no longer be a thing, when all the thieves you work with can warp in to your bedroom at any given time you trust no one. If anything, like everyone else they would have their own hidden quarters and decide on a neutral meeting ground to plan raids and whatever else bandits do. Not even mentioning that targets of these raids could just as easily warp out, taking there shiny bits with them. There really wouldn't be a reason for caravans to exist.

Agriculture and Industry would be another main point. When everyone can come and go as they please how do you protect your goods? Either communal farming becomes a thing, or people rely on subsistence farming to feed themselves. Trading away the extra for whatever is needed. Same thing with hunting and manufacturing. Everything would have be performed on a small scale by single highly skilled artisans. Items such as clothing and similar material would be available, but limited as no one would trust each other enough to leave the material and tools out in the open. Same issue with smithing and similar work. Bellows and Forges would exist, hell these may even be out in the open. But the people who work them would end up taking all their tools with them at the end of the day. Any large scale effort would have to be based on trust. Mining operations for example would involve everyone agreeing not to **** each other over, turn over the material gathered at the end of the day, and split the profits evenly.

Government would be difficult, holdings and geographical borders would mean absolutely nothing to people. Aside from establishing some plot device that allows for the detection and prevention of incoming and outgoing teleportation I am at a loss here.

Just about every adventuring party would want to keep a diviner on hand. When you and everyone else can warp from place to place you will need someone available that can take a look at the 'big picture' and go 'yeah, if we jump down no one will be there.' or 'We don't want to jump right now, pack of gnolls just rolled in and are setting up camp'.

More than likely I'm probably going to give warping some caveats, such as a 5 round 'casting time'. Or possibly inflict stunning, vertigo, or some other type of status effect for a number of rounds after jumping. To make the 'scry and die' tactic less attractive.

So, did I cover everything, or does anyone else have anything to contribute?

[Gildedragon]

You are ignoring the power of affection and loyalties. Geographical boundaries might mean little in determining affiliation, but things like kin and reciprocity would mean even more. Systems of indebtedness and loyalties would define nations.

As to property and privacy: if someone violates someone's home or steals they and theirs may become ostracized, outcasts. That could deter some of the pilfering. Communal property isn't the only adaptation.

Knowledge property becomes quite a mark of prestige. Ranks in craft and knowledges as opposed to land ownership is the means by which prestige and power are measured.

[Cheiromancer]

I like Fouredged Sword's idea about the skyway, and I also think JusticeZero has a point about the unpredictable ramifications of unlimited teleportation.

I think that there should be limitations on where you can travel to/from. Say, only from one place under the open sky to another such place, and if it is cloudy on either place it takes longer. As an additional limitation, maybe a given moon has to be visible in the sky, and if you travel to the other side of the world you are frozen in limbo until the moon rises at your destination. Instead of the moon it might be a particular star. Or the sun- you can only teleport during the day.

Or maybe from one body of water to another; but they have to either flow into the sea or else there has to be a connection between them (springs and subterranean rivers, say). The moon/sun/star thing might work here, too.

But I don't think you should be able to travel into bank vaults and bedrooms.

[One Step Two]

Everyone has made excellent points, I'd like a little more clarification.

Because the Fast Travel is not-quite a teleport, but just moving, but your perceptions change, is there any physical barring?

Let's say for example, that I made a completely sealed room, save for a Magical secret door. Without getting into the specifics of how, If I were to lock the door, but keep the only key to unlock it inside the room itself, thus sealing it. If I were to use the Fast Travel ability, and visualise the inside of the room, would I be able to get inside?
What if I were to seal the entire room using magic so that it was surrounded by 10 feet of solid stone, with an inner core of lead?


Do I need to be able to actually start walking to begin the power, and do my feet need to be on the ground? Because prisoners would find themselves being hung from the celing upside down by the ankles, just to make sure.

It's a very cool idea, but simple limitations of Physical barriers can prevent wide-scale shenanigans. Picturing the court of the wizards castle is one thing, but when you Fast Travel, you get stopped at the gate because it is sealed.


Additionally, you could add a simple fatigue factor. For the commonfolk, using it once a day is very tiring. Some very canny or experienced individuals might be able to use it a few times.

Food for thought.

[Gildedragon]

A possible power down is to allow people to "follow" after a teleport with a successful check to track down the 'port. A successful bluff or hide or eacape artist check might increase or decrease the DC. The spoor might even be distinct between people.

[Phelix-Mu]

While I really do like the OP's idea, and I do like some of the cultural adaptations the OP came up with, I think there should be a few limits on the power greater than what has been described.

1.) At the very least: It should be stopped by spells that block teleportation (dimensional anchor and such). This avoids paranoid wizards being even more paranoid than normal, and allows places like holy temples, government buildings and the like to be warded. Such civic buildings and safe zones could well give the society the direction that is needed to have coherent cultural identity.

2.) Consider a class distinction that might arise if, for some reason, certain people couldn't use the ability. They might be cursed, be genetically different, or otherwise just unable to do it (or maybe only able to do it 1/day or only with great difficulty). This adds some depth to the world, increases the mystery of how the power works, and sets up some conflicts that might figure into the plot. Kind of like the wizards/muggles/squibs dynamic in Harry Potter (much mortification as this is the first time I've referenced that series as a serious analogy).

3.) A mundane way to block the teleporting. 10' of stone, a layer of lead, or the radiation from certain natural formations or in certain areas of the continent; any one of these would allow people a modicum of security in their own home. Otherwise, you set the scene for a level of paranoia that could significantly warp large portions of the society. Why make anything when it can be so easily stolen? Why have kids when they get kidnapped, or flee the country after the first fight (or perhaps this leads to couples having lots of kids, in the manner of poor people of the middle ages, hoping that at least one or two might survive/stick around). Also, if there are monsters in the world, what stops them from porting around?

4.) Connected to the above, a minimum age at which people acquire the ability to do this trick, or some restriction on teaching it to youth. Otherwise kids will run all over the countryside, and childhood mortality would skyrocket. It might be wise to consider the above post that mentioned a way to track people. Maybe blood relatives can sense the destinations of a kinsman, if only to allow mothers to chase youth that are throwing a tantrum.

5.) Finally, as to a government, I'd still think that, as a world where magic-like abilities have substantially altered society, that those with superior magic would rise to the top. Those with political aspirations could easily found an empire/city-state, making magocracies or theocracies the obvious choice.

Alternatively, if there are grades in how well certain people can teleport (or a sub-class that can't or can only do it with difficulty), then the society could be some form of elitist meritocracy, with those with the greatest mastery over movement being recognized as leaders. Perhaps those with enough skill can even bar porting near their person, within a certain radius based on their rank in the porting skill (though it might not be linked to level...maybe to some other intangible, like bloodline or a random chance thing).

In any case, give the whole matter as much forethought as possible, to allow you to more adeptly rule-on-the-fly when the players start throwing the curve balls your way (it will happen).

[LanSlyde]

Previous Conclusions
So after reading and contemplating, this is what I have come up with to address the issues that you mentlegen brought to my attention. As everyone could essentially warp in and out of known destinations with no issue.

Security seemed to be the primary concern here. So what we have is where personal privacy became absolutely essential to life. No one built their homes in the open, everything is concealed either below ground or someplace that would be terribly difficult to locate. Hell, the actual entrances to these homes may have been sealed off entirely. The only way in or out being through warping.

Interacting with other people would end up taking place in highly communal and visual areas. Basically cities would not really be cities but attractive locales for people to gather and sell their wares. Inn might exist, but travelers would stay at them at their own risk.

Bandits and other questionable individuals would honestly have the most difficult time or would not exist in the traditional sense. 'Bandit Camps' would no longer be a thing, when all the thieves you work with can warp in to your bedroom at any given time you trust no one. If anything, like everyone else they would have their own hidden quarters and decide on a neutral meeting ground to plan raids and whatever else bandits do. Not even mentioning that targets of these raids could just as easily warp out, taking there shiny bits with them. There really wouldn't be a reason for caravans to exist.

Agriculture and Industry would be another main point. When everyone can come and go as they please how do you protect your goods? Either communal farming becomes a thing, or people rely on subsistence farming to feed themselves. Trading away the extra for whatever is needed. Same thing with hunting and manufacturing. Everything would have be performed on a small scale by single highly skilled artisans. Items such as clothing and similar material would be available, but limited as no one would trust each other enough to leave the material and tools out in the open. Same issue with smithing and similar work. Bellows and Forges would exist, hell these may even be out in the open. But the people who work them would end up taking all their tools with them at the end of the day. Any large scale effort would have to be based on trust. Mining operations for example would involve everyone agreeing not to **** each other over, turn over the material gathered at the end of the day, and split the profits evenly.

Government would be difficult, holdings and geographical borders would mean absolutely nothing to people. Aside from establishing some plot device that allows for the detection and prevention of incoming and outgoing teleportation I am at a loss here.

Just about every adventuring party would want to keep a diviner on hand. When you and everyone else can warp from place to place you will need someone available that can take a look at the 'big picture' and go 'yeah, if we jump down no one will be there.' or 'We don't want to jump right now, pack of gnolls just rolled in and are setting up camp'.

More than likely I'm probably going to give warping some caveats, such as a 5 round 'casting time'. Or possibly inflict stunning, vertigo, or some other type of status effect for a number of rounds after jumping. To make the 'scry and die' tactic less attractive.



New Conclusions


You are ignoring the power of affection and loyalties. Geographical boundaries might mean little in determining affiliation, but things like kin and reciprocity would mean even more. Systems of indebtedness and loyalties would define nations.

As to property and privacy: if someone violates someone's home or steals they and theirs may become ostracized, outcasts. That could deter some of the pilfering. Communal property isn't the only adaptation.

Knowledge property becomes quite a mark of prestige. Ranks in craft and knowledges as opposed to land ownership is the means by which prestige and power are measured.

You raise a fair point, nations and factions would run off a loyalty system and not be determined by your "local" demographic. Those with the knowledge and abilities to contribute to society the most would most likely end up being the ones in power.


While I really do like the OP's idea, and I do like some of the cultural adaptations the OP came up with, I think there should be a few limits on the power greater than what has been described.

1.) At the very least: It should be stopped by spells that block teleportation (dimensional anchor and such). This avoids paranoid wizards being even more paranoid than normal, and allows places like holy temples, government buildings and the like to be warded. Such civic buildings and safe zones could well give the society the direction that is needed to have coherent cultural identity.


I was already going to allow spells such as Anticipate teleportation and dimensional anchor to interfere with the teleportation.





2.) Consider a class distinction that might arise if, for some reason, certain people couldn't use the ability. They might be cursed, be genetically different, or otherwise just unable to do it (or maybe only able to do it 1/day or only with great difficulty). This adds some depth to the world, increases the mystery of how the power works, and sets up some conflicts that might figure into the plot. Kind of like the wizards/muggles/squibs dynamic in Harry Potter (much mortification as this is the first time I've referenced that series as a serious analogy).


Interesting, I might throw together something... probably involving psionics.




3.) A mundane way to block the teleporting. 10' of stone, a layer of lead, or the radiation from certain natural formations or in certain areas of the continent; any one of these would allow people a modicum of security in their own home. Otherwise, you set the scene for a level of paranoia that could significantly warp large portions of the society. Why make anything when it can be so easily stolen? Why have kids when they get kidnapped, or flee the country after the first fight (or perhaps this leads to couples having lots of kids, in the manner of poor people of the middle ages, hoping that at least one or two might survive/stick around). Also, if there are monsters in the world, what stops them from porting around?


If anything I believe Cold Iron hamper the teleportation. Enclosures with Cold Iron walls block incoming and outgoing travel. Items made of cold iron simply don't warp. I'd like the populace to be a little paranoid. But you can't warp anyone that is unwilling to do so. Lastly, nothing stops the monsters from warping. :smallamused:




4.) Connected to the above, a minimum age at which people acquire the ability to do this trick, or some restriction on teaching it to youth. Otherwise kids will run all over the countryside, and childhood mortality would skyrocket. It might be wise to consider the above post that mentioned a way to track people. Maybe blood relatives can sense the destinations of a kinsman, if only to allow mothers to chase youth that are throwing a tantrum.


Hmm, I like it. Kids and new arrivals must be taught the proper frame of mind required to trigger the magic of the plane. Probably a serious of Int and Wis checks.




5.) Finally, as to a government, I'd still think that, as a world where magic-like abilities have substantially altered society, that those with superior magic would rise to the top. Those with political aspirations could easily found an empire/city-state, making magocracies or theocracies the obvious choice.

Alternatively, if there are grades in how well certain people can teleport (or a sub-class that can't or can only do it with difficulty), then the society could be some form of elitist meritocracy, with those with the greatest mastery over movement being recognized as leaders. Perhaps those with enough skill can even bar porting near their person, within a certain radius based on their rank in the porting skill (though it might not be linked to level...maybe to some other intangible, like bloodline or a random chance thing).

In any case, give the whole matter as much forethought as possible, to allow you to more adeptly rule-on-the-fly when the players start throwing the curve balls your way (it will happen).

Bah, you guessed how the government was gonna work.

Ah well, just means I wasn't silly making the head casters big chief in neverland.