Time Travel Dungeon

[Captain Kablam]

Okay, I'm thinking of making a tower for my group to go through, and to go through it at 3 different states of time. As the the tower is being constructed, after it has been abandoned (the present), and into the future when the place is crumbling apart.

Now, I have a few ideas to work with, but I'd like to brainstorm. With said concept, what sort of puzzles, gimmicks, and monsters would you utilize? Also, are there any rules for time travel I should look at, or at least Books or Dragon Mags you think would aid me on the subject. Also, if you think this idea is stupid and should be abandoned, some constructive criticism would be nice.

So, what have you guys got?

[BWR]

Castles Forlorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_Forlorn)

[Captain Kablam]

Castles Forlorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_Forlorn)

Alright, that presents much of the same basic concept I was going for. Anything more than that?

[GodGoblin]

Sounds like a funky idea, id say make sure you have a decent in game reason why the tower is in this time flux thing, otherwise it might come off a bit out of place and gimmicky.

Also the top of the tower should be in the future time line, I wouldnt want to be on the top floor of an ancient crumbling tower but your PCs dont get a choice :smallwink:

And when in the future you could have them look out of what was once windows a see a blighted landscape/Giant demons/the sun is a swirling pool of blood casting out red light or some other crazy doom like event. It then gives you your next plot arch! Stop the apocalypse! Can drop hints and clues once there back in there own time like they find a cultist with tattoos that oddly resemble [...] from the future. Well thats not that creative but you get the idea.

[MrNobody]

As a DM i had once something like that, but the castle in which the quest took place was in a totally random time-flux. From room to room, time could go forward or backward for minutes, hours, days, years.

Something i used to scare them was setting a room timeline just an hour or two before the timeline of the room they've just in which they've slept but with no door between the two rooms. From the thick walls they could head clanging of metal (the warrior wearing his armour) and strange litanies (the cleric and the wizard praying and studying).

Somothing that really amused my player was a "total time reverse": they got in a huge room where i put a monster way above their GS: it was an epic battle, they tried it all, but they all died horribly. When the last of them was dead... time reverse! The character that first entered the room found himself with his hand on the door's knob, like nothing has appened.

I think that when you are messing with time, everything is allowed!

[Captain Kablam]

Okay, now we're cooking with gas.

Alright GodGoblin, that's a lot of helpful handy world building. And I think having the boss fight at the top of the tower goes without saying. Essentially what I had in mind was an immortal BBEG. Now the only way to stop him is to kill him in the past time line before he becomes immortal. However I was gonna make it that only two PCs or so would be able to go toe-to-toe with the BBEG in the past and it is necessary that the rest of the group throw down with the immortal versions, since through some Doctor Whovian plot device he'd have some sort of temporal awareness, like "I will be stabbed right now, because I can see myself in the future recalling that I had been stabbed.", giving the past version armor buffs and other magic bullcrap. Essentially the other versions need to be distracted.

(By the way, the big wall of text is subject to criticism, I actually welcome it).

As for MrNobody, I'd like to refrain from random and spontaneous time manipulation since I want the journey through the tower to have a distinct puzzle solving element. Like a PC in the future needs to get through a door, the lever to which has rusted into disuse, and the means to which to get to it is via a wooden ladder which will have rotted away in the present and future. A past pc can use a building schematic to draw in a stone ladder or some stairs, which will then allow his allies in the present to reach the lever, which opens the door in the future.

As for time reversing death, I don't know if I'll do that. Maybe I'll right one in if they can't figure out how to stop the BBEG since 2 out of 3 of him is immortal.

Okay, how about devices for the time-traveling itself? I don't want it to be at the player's leisurely discretion, nor do I want it to be completely outside their control. And I definitely want them scattered and/or alone, I want some Monophobia and communication itself to be a difficult task. Any ideas on this?

Also, should I have communication be a difficult task? What I had in mind was past player chalks a message on the wall, present and future player can read it, but they can't message back. Considering that some of the puzzles require superb teamwork. With the inability to to voice their ideas to the rest of the group, I could see some players throwing up their hands, and the whole affair becoming unfun. But I also feel that such a level of isolation and overcoming it may be a much more rewarding experience. Your thoughts?

[Tvtyrant]

Tradition dictate your players see themselves enter.

[BowStreetRunner]

Here are three ideas you could use:

Terry Brooks had a character in one of his books who would go to sleep in the present but have dreams of the future that were as real as actually being there. Add a bedroom that has a similar effect. If anyone goes to sleep in the room, they will wake up in the future. No matter what happens in that future however, when they next go to sleep there (or die or whatever) they will wake up back in the bedroom in the present as if they had just slept the night and that future had not taken place. In fact, it didn't. This is simply a way for you to foreshadow what will happen when they go to the future. Then, when they face it you start the encounter there exactly as they remember it, but their actions now can change the course of events.

Place a painting in one of the rooms that shows a group of three people sitting in that very room. Seen in the second time period though, there are seven people pictured. There also appear to be eleven in the last time period. The painting is magically linked to the tower and shows the images of anyone who dies within its walls. Anyone who dies in the tower while the PCs are there will appear on the painting from that point in time forward. If the PCs manage to save the life of any of the people, their image will no longer appear in the painting.

Dan Simmons wrote about a set of artifacts called Time Tombs his series the Hyperion Cantos. The tombs were flowing backwards in time. Put a time capsule inside a stone similar to the cornerstone of many structures. However, this cornerstone is not the foundation stone usually placed in a structure, but a capstone added at the end of construction. It can be opened during any period if you know where to find it, and anything inside will remain there until removed at some point in the past.

[MrNobody]

Okay, how about devices for the time-traveling itself? I don't want it to be at the player's leisurely discretion, nor do I want it to be completely outside their control. And I definitely want them scattered and/or alone, I want some Monophobia and communication itself to be a difficult task. Any ideas on this?

Also, should I have communication be a difficult task? What I had in mind was past player chalks a message on the wall, present and future player can read it, but they can't message back. Considering that some of the puzzles require superb teamwork. With the inability to to voice their ideas to the rest of the group, I could see some players throwing up their hands, and the whole affair becoming unfun. But I also feel that such a level of isolation and overcoming it may be a much more rewarding experience. Your thoughts?

From your telling i assume the group will be spread between the three temporal realities. If that's the case you could use a combination of casual reality shift and a sort of "power word-time shift". To go through time players have to know a password, which work only for a little amount of time (a game session, a real world hour... your choice) and that maybe it's linked to the current puzzle they're solving. When the puzzle is solved or when the time of the password expires, two PC are swiched randomly: if A is in the past and B in the future, B goes in the past and A in the future.
The "password" change because, working in the tower in three different timelines they are changing rapidly the tower's history. Howerver, it takes time to the password to change. But if they make a huge changing, like resolving a big puzzle, that changing vibrate through reality forcing an istantaneuos password change.

In this way you could give the isolation you want but only for a limited amount of time, sharing the "loneliness" betwenn al the players.

[Kazuel]

I like the idea of the players forcing the time change. Say they come to a wall or barrier where they can go into the past before the wall was built or into the future where it's easy to knock down. Both choices would have different outcomes.

[Captain Kablam]

Tvtyrant: NO! Stop that!...maybe.

BowStreetRunner: A lot of what you're suggesting works with quite a bit of time afforded to the PCs. I was planning on having the three time lines are running parallel to each other as depicted by the calender. If a person goes into the past at 3:00pm January 8th in the year 190now, they arrive at 3:00pm January 8th 190then. And if they go forward, January 8th 190years-from-now. Also, as for the Tower itself, thing less Western Castle, more Raiders of The Lost Ark opening. However I do like the time tombs, that would aid with the communication thing.

MrNobody: The password thing could work, I do like the random time switch.

Okay, I also want time travel to play a part in combat as well. There's the obvious, like if part of the floor is damaged in the anyone standing there in the future falls to their death. But on top of that I want to do something with paradoxes, like if a chandelier falls in the present, and a bad guy happens to be stand in the same space where it now exists in the future. Any ideas for effects like that?

[Axinian]

One way to give the players some semblance of control is to have the time warp segments be easily recognizable and predictable, at least once they figure out the queues. That way, even though they don't have direct control over the changes, they'll be able to plan around the changes and use them to their advantage. Perhaps have the queue be different for each time period? If you want to up the tension, have the time warps come more frequently the more time they spend in the castle.

What would be really fun is if you prepare several different layouts of the castle and it's events, and have each one keyed to a certain outcome during the past time. The players' actions influence which model of the castle gets built. Each time they go back to the past, they can change the model if they figure out how. Things can get really crazy when they start using items from one model of the castle that don't exist in another!

[Zaq]

Skyward Sword had a dungeon that was based on this concept. You might be able to pull some ideas from there.

[Daftendirekt]

Like a PC in the future needs to get through a door, the lever to which has rusted into disuse, and the means to which to get to it is via a wooden ladder which will have rotted away in the present and future. A past pc can use a building schematic to draw in a stone ladder or some stairs, which will then allow his allies in the present to reach the lever, which opens the door in the future.

Heh, pretty sure I played a flash game once that had similar mechanics. You had to create iterations of yourself performing multiple tasks at the right times to open doors and flip switches and ride platforms and such. It was pretty neat.

[Bezzerker]

An idea I had while reading the OP, the three time periods that the players will be traversing should each have a distinctive theme to the puzzles that need to be overcome.

In particular, how would having access to the other two time periods help the players in their's?

For the Past, the puzzles should revolve around knowledge. The Present and Future provide ways for the players in the Past find out details that they would otherwise be unable to find in timely (heh) fashion.

The Present should have puzzles using objects. As the conduit between the Past and the Future, the Present can obtain items that have either been lost to the mists of time or placed in preparation centuries ago.

Lastly, the Future should be based on manipulating the tower itself. By giving the Past and Present information, the Future can alter the structure of the tower, allowing them to progress further and further up to the peak.

For the Boss fight, I would say that since the Boss is "temporally aware" as you've described, the best way to confront him would be to have the party engage him at the top of the tower in all three time periods simultaneously. This will help to confuse the Boss, as while he maybe immortal in 2 out of 3 time periods, he might not be able to readily distinguish which PCs are in which periods, especially if they have a method of "switching out".

As for communicating, I would give the party basically temporal walkie-talkies. Walkie-talkies that are powered by "cracks" or "distortion" that have started to pop up in the tower, and must be recharged after sending/receiving for so many rounds. Cracks and distortions that don't stay in any particular spot for very long, and that more often than not end up in very hard to reach or inconvenient locations.

Both the Future and the Present wouldn't have too much difficulty in recharging, as the only real obstacles are those of the structure itself. The Past, however, will often have to try and recharge while other people are around building in a way that won't elicit suspicion from the workers and supervisors.

[Daftendirekt]

For the Boss fight, I would say that since the Boss is "temporally aware" as you've described, the best way to confront him would be to have the party engage him at the top of the tower in all three time periods simultaneously. This will help to confuse the Boss, as while he maybe immortal in 2 out of 3 time periods, he might not be able to readily distinguish which PCs are in which periods, especially if they have a method of "switching out".

As for communicating, I would give the party basically temporal walkie-talkies. Walkie-talkies that are powered by "cracks" or "distortion" that have started to pop up in the tower, and must be recharged after sending/receiving for so many rounds. Cracks and distortions that don't stay in any particular spot for very long, and that more often than not end up in very hard to reach or inconvenient locations.

Both the Future and the Present wouldn't have too much difficulty in recharging, as the only real obstacles are those of the structure itself. The Past, however, will often have to try and recharge while other people are around building in a way that won't elicit suspicion from the workers and supervisors.
Very cool ideas!

[Captain Kablam]

Axinian: I love that concept pal,don't go changing. However, to do the radical change of sets you're talking about would require a lot of pencil work on maps. But then again, I guess it comes with the territory. As for time vehicles, I was thinking a lever (love them levers!), and they only work on a one to one person basis. If a person pulls a lever that flings them to the future (WHERE MY EVIL IS LAW!), that person's on their lonesome, unless some else finds another lever that brings them to the same time period. And once you pull it, it will take a bit (like say 2-3 rounds until it can send you back). Shift to a room full of enemies? Tough luck. Also, not all levers will have all three choices (past and future, but not present. future and present, but not etc.). And to sweeten the deal, some levers and obstacles require a two man switcheroo. Meaning a lever will not turn, unless it's brother is also pulled at another location, changin' the player positions temporally but not physically.

Zaq: I looked at it. It's alright, but as far as mechanics go, what I had in mind was was more of a temporal Portal 2: CTI.

Daftendirekt: Yeah, I started kickin about this idea when I saw some kid playin a Ratchet and Clank game. (fun fact, they're getting a movie.)

ElementsofOrder: You're singing music to my ears pal. Much of what you're saying is what I had in mind. However, however using cracks and time distortion to allow communication is brilliant, and does help with my communication dilemma. And it allows for some unique stealth opportunities, in having not only the heroes from separate time lines hear each other but the bad guys too,they just can't see each other. Kinda like that one Twilight Zone episode "Little Girl Lost". Like a paladin's clanking armor (thanks for the inspiration MrNobody), will either help a baddie find a hidden ally in their respective time zone, or function as a suitable distraction. Also the cracks could function like windows, allowing for arrows and spells to pass through, and later at the final battle, when things are crazy, have them open up large enough to step through, but appear randomly. I like what you stated for the puzzles, although I don't quite think I'll do what you've suggested for the future. Don't get me wrong, I'll do much of the same, however, having the only influence on the others as talking, hints, and the windows with no unique function other than "hint guy, get me here", may regulate future placed PCs to the helpful damsel role, even if they are killing their own monster hordes. What I had in mind was that in order to progress through the tower, they ride an elevator, that moves across the timelines and stops at certain floors and the controls for which only function in the future. Essentially making the future player a ball in a maze. Through this way, the future player's progression and incentive to help aid it becomes less, "Help me because I'm apart of the group and like to adventure too," and more "Help me or we're never leaving here alive." What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Okay, we're really knocking out a lot of issues. Lets talk monsters. Essentially I want each timeline to have it's own set of about three or so. I already have a few ideas, but this is a brainstorm so lets see what we can come up with. Particularly, I'm interested in choices for present and future, considering at these points things are "getting weirder" and "have gotten way weird". I was thinking undead, but that seemed too easy a cop out considering the place is teeming with twisted restorative and temporal properties rather than mere unholiness and unlife. I was wondering if completely Lawful Neutral or Chaotic Neutral entities would be utilized, since time itself is being torn asunder, definitely catching attention. However I'm a bit afraid that may be too much considering the BBEG is just that in this story case, big, bad, and evil. And since he's center stage, more minions revolving around him and his command.

If you were making this sort of dungeon what sort of creatures or things would you opt for? And if you want to throw in some personal World Building to make certain things fit, throw them in, I love story suggestion.

[BowStreetRunner]

If you were making this sort of dungeon what sort of creatures or things would you opt for?

I'm wondering if there is a template that would fit in here. There are acquired templates (like Dark creature from ToM for instance) that reflect spending time exposed to a particular environment. Maybe you could set up your encounters so that any creature that the PCs fail to defeat turn up later with a new template applied - reflecting the time these creatures have spent in the mixed up environment in and around the tower. Perhaps the Pseudonatural creature template from CArc and LoM?

Oh, and make sure there are ways for the creatures in and around the tower to move around the timeline as well. The PCs shouldn't be the only ones able to go back and forth.

[Captain Kablam]

BowStreetRunner: I looked into the psuedonatural, it's a good template, but I was hoping for more monster variety. As for having the monsters shift between the timelines, I don't know. I wanted each timeline to have it's own distinct feel (much in the same manner as ElementsofOrder described), this includes the monsters. However, it would be fun to have the cracks, send and warp them as the dungeon gets nearer to its conclusion, reflecting the fracturing of the time stream.

Any other thoughts?