[3.5]Fighter//Adept Tier?

[Thurbane]

If you gestalted Fighter and Adept, and let it play alongside regular (non-gestalt) characters, what tier would you say it was?

HD: d10
Good BAB
Good Fort and Will saves
Proficient with all simple & martial weapons, heavy armor and shields (including tower shield)
2 skills points/level: Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Bonus Fighter feat at 1st and every even level.
Divine spellcasting (up to 5th level spells)
Familar

[eggynack]

I don't think that this combination of abilities really matches tier 3 classes, so I'd still stick it in tier 4. There might be some room to maneuver if that fighter were instead a zhentarim soldier dungeon crasher fighter, but as is I don't see the argument for a tier bump. The adept list is surprisingly wonderful in places, but it doesn't seem all that synergistic with the fighter, particularly due to MAD issues.

[Morcleon]

That... looks quite a bit like duskblade to me. :smallwink:

I'd place it at a low tier 3. It's basically duskblade, but with more feats/spells and without unique class features. Although due to the adept's spell list, it's probably slightly higher within tier 3 than duskblade.

[Flickerdart]

Probably a high T4. Requiring 3 stats makes you pretty MAD, and the spell list is so small that the spells don't help much. There are a couple that are all right (mirror image, animate dead, polymorph, raise dead) but you get it all so far past its prime that it's almost not worth bothering.

[137beth]

Borderline between tier 3 and 4. If you gave it the ability to cast based on strength or something, then it may go up to tier 3.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say it's an extremely high Tier 3, only because you technically need to have access to world-bending 9th level spells to be in Tier 2 or Tier 1. Until extremely late game it's probably going to feel like a Tier 2, though. Keep in mind, none of the books published have expanded the Adept spell list (to my knowledge), it just gets what's printed in the DMG. You can pick up prestige classes that grant domains, but just a gestalt Fighter//Adept all the way to 20 has a severely limited spell list.

That said, I'm extremely fond of this combination of classes, especially for newer players. The spell list is small and straightforward, it's easy enough to help them pick feats to make a viable character, and a well built and well played character of these classes is actually quite powerful. Let's go over a few more of its benefits:

Fighter 20 gets access to Weapon Supremacy, a feat tree which is actually quite potent when you have the feats to spare.
Fighter levels give access to Dungeoncrasher, along with possible Knockback shenanigans.
Fighter levels give access to Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels, which can make for an extremely potent fear-based character with the right feats, items, and skill tricks.

Adept gets a Familiar, which means the possibility for an Improved Familiar. That means you can get a flying mount, or an Imp or Quasit or Pseudodragon, all of which are extremely useful and permit a character to contribute when he otherwise may not have been able to.
The Adept spell list contains tons of buffs and utility that's good at every character level, status removal spells that a typical Fighter would have to ask a spellcaster for, and even the mighty Polymorph with enough daily uses (with bonus spells) to have one for every encounter. The spell list makes the character extremely self-sufficient and the buffs make this build play like a Gish that ignores spell failure.

Definitely an extremely self-sufficient character high in the Tier 3 bracket. You can easily take a prestige class like Hexer later on, which drops your HD and Fort save but probably makes up for it in class features. I'd hit 9th level before taking this just to get your Zhentarim Soldier 9 sub level, and the fear effects will decrease opponents' saving throws vs your Hexer abilities.

Edit: As for what stats it needs, Wis 12 is sufficient starting out because you only need Wis 15 for the highest level spells. It's easy enough to get a +Wis item and cast Bull's Strength instead of buying a +Str item.

[Deaxsa]

is there an arcane version of adept?

and i'd put it in teir 4. the spells are really not that great, you're MAD, you still have no skill points. on the one hand, if we counted this as one class, it would be ok, but on the other had, it would probably be very easy to prestige out into a very good PrC in a hurry. (I don't acually know any myself, it just seems easyish.)

also, because so few of your spells are buffing spells, the classes don't really synergize all that well (at least, for 95% of the spells)
polymorph with Full BAB and d10 HD sure is nice though

[mabriss lethe]

I'm going to have to benchmark it at T3.

From JaronK's Tier List (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0)

Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Can be game breaking only with specific intent to do so. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

A Fighter//Adept will become quite good at multiple specialized forms of combat while having a spell list that contains a smattering of buffs, blasts, battlefield control and utility spells. Said character will be outshone by a character class dedicated to any of these areas of expertise though. Nothing in the F//A's class features will break the game or end an encounter.

[Kelb_Panthera]

is there an arcane version of adept?

and i'd put it in teir 4. the spells are really not that great, you're MAD, you still have no skill points. on the one hand, if we counted this as one class, it would be ok, but on the other had, it would probably be very easy to prestige out into a very good PrC in a hurry. (I don't acually know any myself, it just seems easyish.)

also, because so few of your spells are buffing spells, the classes don't really synergize all that well (at least, for 95% of the spells)
polymorph with Full BAB and d10 HD sure is nice though

There's a rough equivalency with the Eberron campaign setting's mage-wright NPC class. It's mechanically distinct but very similar in overall capability.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Adept and [good ACF] Fighter are T4 separately. Adept can contribute in many areas, but doesn't shine in any particular niche (T4). [Good ACF] Fighter does 2-3 combat things very well, but nothing else (T4). Getting both of these things puts you into T3. Also, the MADness isn't that terrible. You get a 14 Wisdom, buy stat-boosting items when you can, avoid the save-or-x spells on the list, and call it a day.

Compare to a Warblade, a versatile combatant with a little bit of out-of-combat utility. The Fighter//Adept has similar fighting numbers, has a similar level of tricks (Warblade is more mobile, but F//A gets Mirror Image, See Invis, Polymorph, etc) and has more out-of-combat utility.

It's not so great that I wouldn't dip Barbarian 1 though.

[Chronos]

There's very little synergy between the classes, so in practice, you'd end up acting like either a fighter that occasionally pulls off a few neat tricks, or a somewhat-tougher adept. That might be enough to edge into Tier 3, but it'd be on the low end of the tier.