Planning AND Undeath?

[Azernak0]

How is it that people have both Planning and Undeath for their Domains when there is no god that gives out those Domains? I was not aware you could pick and choose. :smallconfused:

[Kelb_Panthera]

What you're overlooking is the fact that a cleric doesn't have to choose a god (except in Forgotten Realms). When you see people talking about clerics with planning and undeath, they're usually talking about a cleric that doesn't serve a deity but is instead dedicated to some cause that includes both planning and undeath.

[Marlowe]

Simply put: You can. You don't have to pick a god at all.

[Azernak0]

Ahh. All these years, always misinformed. Thanks.

[Gildedragon]

And even if you did: craft your own. Your own Skull Marionette in lieu of a clown puppet. Portfolio: self-ascension into undeath (plan your undeath)

[ArcturusV]

Yeah. Some DMs I've run into don't like "Clerics of a Cause" for that specific reason, that you can mash together the best domains (In your mind) that you'd otherwise be unable to get.

Might want to watch out that there aren't Domains that are Deity specific only, you can't "Cause" them. Don't think Planning or Undeath are. I know when the Pleasure Domain came out, that was Deity locked (You can only get it by being a follower of a God who grants it). But I think they dropped that limitation on it eventually.

... but it's happened before, so it might have happened again?

[KillianHawkeye]

Might want to watch out that there aren't Domains that are Deity specific only, you can't "Cause" them. Don't think Planning or Undeath are. I know when the Pleasure Domain came out, that was Deity locked (You can only get it by being a follower of a God who grants it). But I think they dropped that limitation on it eventually.

Never heard of any domain being only grantable by a deity before.... :smallconfused:

[hamishspence]

Defenders of the Faith introduced the concept of prestige domains- ones that could only be taken via taking a prestige class that grants access to an extra domain.

Pleasure wasn't one of those though- it was an ordinary domain, which the BoED deity Lastai granted.

[sonofzeal]

There's also "Pantheon" rules - if you worship a pantheon, you can basically pick any domain of any of its members.

I'm not particularly fond of either that or "Cleric of a Cause", though. Any character can be dedicated to a cause, and many are. If a Cleric is simply someone who has a cause, then that raises the unfortunate implication that nobody else has one. Virtually every other class is a result of either talent or training or both; tying a class so firmly to a personality trait instead just seems bizarre.

[Xervous]

Every time planning+undeath comes up, people are always wondering "well what sort of cause is this a devotion to?"

The obvious answer that should be self evident by now is: Total World Domination.

[Vaz]

That is small fry. It is more like maling a jigsaw out of reality and putting the pieces baclk together in a way they are not meant to be.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm not particularly fond of either that or "Cleric of a Cause", though. Any character can be dedicated to a cause, and many are. If a Cleric is simply someone who has a cause, then that raises the unfortunate implication that nobody else has one. Virtually every other class is a result of either talent or training or both; tying a class so firmly to a personality trait instead just seems bizarre.

That doesn't imply that nobody else can fight for a cause, only that a cleric of a cause is MORE dedicated to their cause than others are.

[Curmudgeon]

What you're overlooking is the fact that a cleric doesn't have to choose a god (except in Forgotten Realms).
You're a little behind there, because that's just a 3.0 rule. The parts of Player's Guide to Faerun which overrode specific chapters of Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting knocked off that requirement without re-creating it for 3.5.

[Marlowe]

Let's also remember that individualised, numerous, anthromorphic dieties each with certain areas of strength is a religious model that is most certainly not universal. Most real world religions don't work this way.

[Eldonauran]

There's also "Pantheon" rules - if you worship a pantheon, you can basically pick any domain of any of its members.

I'm not particularly fond of either that or "Cleric of a Cause", though. Any character can be dedicated to a cause, and many are. If a Cleric is simply someone who has a cause, then that raises the unfortunate implication that nobody else has one. Virtually every other class is a result of either talent or training or both; tying a class so firmly to a personality trait instead just seems bizarre.

When I run across players that want to make a cleric 'of a cause', rather than one that worships a particular deity, I secretly pick a handful of gods that might be interested in supplying spells to that character. Usually of the nuetral sort that don't typically have strict codes of conduct that the character can break easily.

Over time, I let slip certain things that might reveal to the character which gods is currently fueling the power for his spells and which might be benefitting most from that character's actions. Usually, this leads to great adventure hooks and a good portion of the time, a conversion to a particular gods. Sometimes it doesn't.

Of course, I don't find anything wrong in worshipping two gods and pulling from their combined domain pools, provided that the two gods don't have greatly different codes and their alignment is within one step of each other. Some gods are fine with sharing.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I allow cause clerics in my games, but I do so with the caveat that they're under much tighter RP scrutiny.

If you play a cleric of a deity, you're fine as long as you stay recognizably within that deity's dogma.

If you're a cause cleric you have to devote everything to that cause and moving notably away from that cause, even briefly, causes you to lose your cleric abilities. Depending on your choice of cause, finding a cleric to cast atonement if and when that happens can sometimes be difficult.

In-world this is a result of a difference in how they access the divine power. A cleric of a deity has a tremendously powerful divine being funnelling the power into him. A cause cleric is tapping the power directly through his unswerving faith in his cause; a task that's very difficult for mortals.