Dark Sun question

[Blackhawk748]

Ok, right now im in the process of reading through the Dark Sun setting, and im far enough in to realize that all the races have some sort of lvl adj. Now what would be the effect if i lowered all Lvl Adjustments by one, considering everyone will have at least a +1?

[Rhynn]

Do you mean athas.org (http://www.athas.org/)'s Dark Sun sourcebook (http://www.athas.org/products/ds3)?

Only aarakocras, half-giants, muls, and thri-kreen have LA. Dwarves, elves, half-elves, halflings, humans, and pterrans don't. Ignoring even 1 LA makes the races with it much more desirable than the others.

Just start the campaign at level 3 (that's what AD&D 2E's revised Dark Sun did) and use level adjustment buyoff (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/unearthedRaces.html).

[Phelix-Mu]

I dunno why the article in Dragon Magazine (assuming that was the source you are talking about) decided that every race needed LA. It might be because there was a rule in 2e, I think, that every PC in Dark Sun started at 3rd level, to represent that life was hard and dangerous and the player characters are survivors or whatever.

Well, it doesn't really matter why, but it's a terrible rule. I'd just say that all the Athasian subraces have the psionic subtype, possibly grant Wild Talent to some/all of them, and ditch the other craziness they tacked on, keep the changes to ability scores and such, and then just junk the LAs. If everyone has them, they don't really represent what they are supposed to represent, and the DM should just keep in mind that Dark Sun is a powerful setting (though a lot of the aspects of the setting then takes away advantages).

Anyway, kudos for using Dark Sun. You may want to look for other sources. 3.5 Dark Sun was the worst iteration. There is some kind of official Athas website...the name isn't coming to me. They may have additional details there.

[Blackhawk748]

yes i am using the Dragon Magazine one, and mostly all they changed to pretty much everyone was giving them higher ability scores, and 3 power points and an innate power they could use. Honestly it didnt make sense to me why everyone would have lvl adj, because then technically no one really does.

Also im currently reading The Verdant Passage, so i should have some more stuff to work with besides just Dragon magazine

[Rhynn]

I really recommend the athas.org material (the download links fore each PDF are under the Files tab). It's pretty much superior, and very comprehensive.

But yeah, if Dragon Mag gave literally everyone LA +1 or more, then knocking off 1 for everyone makes sense.

[Phelix-Mu]

I really recommend the athas.org material (the download links fore each PDF are under the Files tab). It's pretty much superior, and very comprehensive.

But yeah, if Dragon Mag gave literally everyone LA +1 or more, then knocking off 1 for everyone makes sense.

Yeah, I think this is the site I was thinking of. The Dragon Magz stuff seemed inferior, though a good source for some things. The race rules were borked, IMHO. I think it's much more sensible to just hand out Wild Talent/Hidden Talent if you want that kind of thing around, and I'm not sure everyone should have it anyway (psionics was very common originally, but far from omnipresent). It seems to me that defiling would be much less popular/successful if everyone on the planet had a chance to sense what it does to the balance of life in the world.

Anyway, that's just my take. A lot of the 2e source material is still out there in the Aether, so it might be worth taking a gander at some of the stuff that was fluff for the races. My favorite characters of all time have been by and large Athasian halflings. Dunno why, but I really like the flavor of those short, paranoid, "cannibalistic" guys.

[Rhynn]

Yeah, I think this is the site I was thinking of. The Dragon Magz stuff seemed inferior, though a good source for some things. The race rules were borked, IMHO. I think it's much more sensible to just hand out Wild Talent/Hidden Talent if you want that kind of thing around, and I'm not sure everyone should have it anyway (psionics was very common originally, but far from omnipresent). It seems to me that defiling would be much less popular/successful if everyone on the planet had a chance to sense what it does to the balance of life in the world.

In AD&D 2E revised Dark Sun, all player characters were psionic wild talents (if they weren't psionicists), but not everyone on Athas was a wild talent, and it's possible not everyone even had the potential.

IMO it's much more sensible to just, say, make psion and psychic warrior favored classes for everyone, in addition to their other favored classes.

Not sure what the defiling thing is in reference to, but IMO the main source of defiling is Sorcerer-Kings and their royal defilers, anyway.

[Phelix-Mu]

Not sure what the defiling thing is in reference to, but IMO the main source of defiling is Sorcerer-Kings and their royal defilers, anyway.

I agree with Rhynn, though you might consider psionic subtype for some of the races, as it opens up a couple options from the psionics rules, IIRC.

The defilers things was more a reference to the 3.5 thing, where I think they turned it into a feat. It should certainly not be widely available, as it was used to devastating effect already in the hands of a few prime suspects. I should think that, to some psionically sensitive people, the disruption in the flow of energy caused by defiling (not to mention the extermination of life where it's used) would be tangible. I suppose it was so, but those who sensed it were rarely in a position to oppose the Sorcerer-Kings (after all, virtually no one was in such a position).

Anyway, I really like the setting, though I am skeptical of anything they did with it in 3e and *gasp* 4e.

[Rhynn]

Hm. I personally like the way defiling was portrayed in the otherwise fairly awful Troy Denning novels: to me, it should always be an option to any PC, but with dire consequences. (I'm probably going to make it cause you to become obviously less human, and other nasty side-effects, in my ACKS Dark Sun.) Basically, anyone can defile, and PCs in dire situations will be tempted to, but it bears a terrible personal price. And, obviously, defiling would be Evil and possibly Chaotic...

I think athas.org also uses feats for defiling, though.

Edit: Yeah, my personal preference is for the original 2E material, then the revised, then athas.org's; although my own Dark Sun version is pretty wildly divergent, inspired by Barsoom (Dark Sun's obvious inspiration, no matter what was later claimed), the Caves of Qud roguelike, Fallout, and Mad Max.

[Blackhawk748]

in Dragon's adaptation all arcane casters can defile at any time, and there are consequences, i dont remember what they are right now, but i know that it starts to get bad if you do it to often

[Chronos]

The reason to give all the races an LA is to make the material compatible with other settings, if the DM should choose to mix them. If you're not going to do that, then it's probably OK to drop all of the LAs by the same amount. It's not completely without effect, though: Everyone having an LA means that the party will advance in levels slower.

[Blackhawk748]

which is why i'd drop the LA, considering it says that

"in keeping with the feel of the original Dark Sun, the lowest level players characters should be is lvl 4" ( i paraphrased)

which would mean the +1 LA would be bought off immediately anyway, as we always play with LA buyoff as an option