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Dwy
2013-06-08, 03:43 PM
So, I've been playing all kinds of table-top games for as long as I can remember, The settlers of Catan, Risk, Warhammer fantasy, Diplomacy, Game of Thrones (the game), Munchkin, heck, even Magic the Gathering.

Been roleplaying in various MMOs over several years too. Now I'm getting increasingly curious about the "proper" RPGs, including, but not limited to Dnd after reading this strip for some years (having played and understood KOTOR and KOTOR 2 made a lot of the mechanic-jokes make sense to me) and getting a bit tired with the MMOs in particular.

So anyway, what game would you personally recommend for a newcomer? And do you know where to find a decent entry level guide to said game (being easy to read would help)? All replies would be very much welcome.

P.S. Being available as a forum game here etc. would not hurt at all.

-Dwy

Amphetryon
2013-06-08, 03:49 PM
So, I've been playing all kinds of table-top games for as long as I can remember, The settlers of Catan, Risk, Warhammer fantasy, Diplomacy, Game of Thrones (the game), Munchkin, heck, even Magic the Gathering.

Been roleplaying in various MMOs over several years too. Now I'm getting increasingly curious about the "proper" RPGs, including, but not limited to Dnd after reading this strip for some years (having played and understood KOTOR and KOTOR 2 made a lot of the mechanic-jokes make sense to me) and getting a bit tired with the MMOs in particular.

So anyway, what game would you personally recommend for a newcomer? And do you know where to find a decent entry level guide to said game (being easy to read would help)? All replies would be very much welcome.

P.S. Being available as a forum game here etc. would not hurt at all.

-DwyIs there a particular genre you're specifically interested in? High Fantasy, Grimdark, Low Fantasy, Survival/Horror, Cyberpunk, Mecha, Anime, Western, Space Opera, and more all have games with good systems and devoted fan bases.

For games that can run multiple genres, I know there's FATE, GURPS, Burning Wheel (with some fiddling), Fudge, and likely several others that a helpful handful of posters will be along shortly to remind me of. :smallsmile:

Here's hoping you get an enjoyable start to the hobby.

Dwy
2013-06-08, 03:57 PM
I'm a big fan of High Fantasy, and a litte scifi-curious (enjoyed Star Wars, the Mass Effect series, Stargate SG1, but never really got serious about them).

I hope that helps somewhat.

Premier
2013-06-08, 05:39 PM
D&D: download some of the free retroclones of old editions, e.g. Sword & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC etc.. Don' start with 3rd, 3.5th or 4th editions of D&D.*

Sci-fi: Stars Without Number is a sci-fi game with rules strongly rooted in old-school D&D. Free version exists, and it's great.

But what's most important is to get in touch with people already playing so you don't have to scrounge up a whole new group (and its easier to learn by taking a clue from others). Look for them via forums or the bulletin boards / open game nights at brick'n'mortar gamer's stores.



*Broken arm in plaster, can't type that much. Ask me to explain in a few weeks.

The Rose Dragon
2013-06-08, 06:13 PM
I'm gonna list my Big 3: GURPS (for the more detail oriented), Mutants & Masterminds (for the more cinematic-minded) and Unisystem (for somewhere in between). The rules for M&M 3rd Edition can be found here (http://www.d20herosrd.com/), and Witchcraft, a setting-specific variation of Unisystem (which is still modular, though not as modular as the system's flagship game, All Flesh Must Be Eaten) can be found here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=692&it=1), both for free. GURPS is not available for free, but a quick-start version of the rules can be found in e23 or your local game store.

After any one of those three, things start to get a bit more diverse, but also more limited for each game. Eclipse Phase is a transhumanist post-cyberpunk game, so it is not to my personal taste, but anyone who likes such stuff generally likes it, and it is legally available on many torrent sites. CthulhuTech is good, and a bit more flexible than Eclipse Phase, but you need a lot of books to cover many concepts in science-fiction, and the presence of the Lovecraftian mythos might take some modifications to remove if you are not fond of them.

My personal three favorites after the aforementioned Big 3, all with various levels of wuxia, are Exalted, Weapons of the Gods and Qin: the Warring States. Exalted and Weapons of the Gods are both high fantasy to some degree, with Exalted tending more towards non-fantasy genres such as cyberpunk at times. Qin is a bit more gritty, as it is closer to historical fantasy with some magic elements.

Finally, this is more of a personal taste thing, but I cannot recommend three games enough, especially since I feel they should be a lot more popular than they are (even if they are not particularly fantastic): Remnants, a post-apocalyptic mecha game, Nine Worlds, a weird / epic fantasy based on Greek Mythology, and Anima Prime, a generic system designed to emulate the pace of animated series like Avatar, Grenadier or earlier episodes of Dragon Ball or games like Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy. Anima Prime is available for free on its own website, while Nine Worlds is available for free on the previously linked RPGNow.com. Every other game I mentioned, except for GURPS, can be bought or downloaded on the same site, with GURPS having its own store, e23.

There are two games I will mention due to their immense popularity, but will specifically not recommend: Dungeons & Dragons (3rd Edition and 3.5 - I do not play 4th Edition, but it is good at what it does) and Savage Worlds. Personally, I have found that at least one system I mentioned above does what they can do better than those systems. I mention them, because it is far easier to find players for those systems than for most other systems out there, and if you are not too picky, they get the job done.

neonchameleon
2013-06-08, 07:07 PM
So, I've been playing all kinds of table-top games for as long as I can remember, The settlers of Catan, Risk, Warhammer fantasy, Diplomacy, Game of Thrones (the game), Munchkin, heck, even Magic the Gathering.

Been roleplaying in various MMOs over several years too. Now I'm getting increasingly curious about the "proper" RPGs, including, but not limited to Dnd after reading this strip for some years (having played and understood KOTOR and KOTOR 2 made a lot of the mechanic-jokes make sense to me) and getting a bit tired with the MMOs in particular.

So anyway, what game would you personally recommend for a newcomer? And do you know where to find a decent entry level guide to said game (being easy to read would help)? All replies would be very much welcome.

P.S. Being available as a forum game here etc. would not hurt at all.

-Dwy

There are two basic ends to this hobby, with everything in between.

The first end is the D&D end (and these boards are D&D-focussed). D&D started life when a classic tabletop wargame got out of hand (http://eudaimonaiaclaughter.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/tabletop-roleplaying-games-back-where-we-started/). People took the roles they were trying to play and did things you can't do in a rules-bound wargame. And Dave Arneson made everyone look like chumps. D&D has always been a lot in the mold of taking another game style, and taking the characters in that world as actual people rather than pewter minatures, tabletop counters, or sprites. In short it's the next neigbour over from MMOs and CRPGs - one in which everyone in your guild is (or should be) a decent person, there are no griefers, and the GM is more flexible than any computer ever. For intro products the Pathfinder Beginners' Box (http://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Beginner-Box/dp/1601253729) is awesome and the 4e D&D Red Box (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Game/dp/0786956291/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370736135&sr=1-1&keywords=4e+red+box) pretty decent. (I'd say of the two the Beginners Box is far the superior product - and actually better than the full Pathfinder game, whereas the Red Box is slightly flawed but a decent intro to what is overall both a better game and one that's learned a lot from what works with CRPGs and how to translate that). For the record, Mutants and Masterminds, mentioned above, is based on a D&D engine.

On the other end of the spectrum there are the freeformers. People who get together to tell collaborative stories, and the rules provide structure and inspiration to bring the story together much faster and more cleanly, and with more ideas brought out than they would have without. Probably the game I'd recommend starting with here is Fiasco (http://www.bullypulpitgames.com/games/fiasco/) for a taster - or just an awesome partygame to have on your shelf. For longer term play Apocalypse World (http://apocalypse-world.com/) and its various hacks appear to be turning into the standard (I believe both Dungeon World (http://www.dungeon-world.com/) and Monsterhearts (http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/monsterhearts/) to be more popular than original AW and understand why in both cases).

And for a hybrid Fate Core (http://www.evilhat.com/home/fate-core/) for longer term play. In fact, if you're wondering what tabletop RPGs are all about I can't think of a better way of finding out than getting the Fate Core PDF (http://www.evilhat.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79&products_id=223&zenid=u780pi3shkrdoeebbn1a84lsa5).

But see what there is around where you live. I'd really recommend everyone read Fate Core and Fiasco, but the people you game with are far and away the most important factor.

Edit: And Unisystem is, as mentioned, a good system. The old official Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/buffystuff/roleplaygame/) is also available for free - and is a little more cinematic than Witchcraft.

navar100
2013-06-08, 07:11 PM
What do you consider "improper"?

Dwy
2013-06-08, 07:54 PM
@neon:
Working my way through your links, so far the Pathfinder beginner's box and Fiasco both look like they'd be good fits. Will definately try to find out just a tiny bit more about them, and possibly try to bring either into my regular gaming group, even. Thanks for an epic post with loads of helpful links, not to mention suggestions with low tresholds, which is really cool.

Dwy
2013-06-09, 09:16 AM
What do you consider "improper"?
Well, any RPGs with the prefix "MMO", the video game genre RPGs due to their limited nature, and stuff like Munchkin, I suppose.

Larkas
2013-06-09, 09:36 AM
The games I play mostly are the aforementioned D&D3.5, Pathfinder, GURPS and the very occasional Storyteller. People seem to have brought up most things relevant to D&D and Pathfinder (and I can't recommend the Pathfinder Beginner Box enough), so I'll just take care of GURPS. There is a very nice and simple introduction to the game called GURPS Lite. GURPS is a modular system, and GURPS lite is a version of the game with a stripped down rule set, bearing only the basic rules. And that's a great thing, since GURPS can get overwhelmingly complex with all the available extra rules. What's best about it is that it's available in a neat 32 pages long PDF for free! Here (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/) is the link.

I... Can't really recommend anything regarding Storyteller. I didn't really like the new edition, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to recommend anything regarding the old one. :smalleek:

neonchameleon
2013-06-09, 02:31 PM
@neon:
Working my way through your links, so far the Pathfinder beginner's box and Fiasco both look like they'd be good fits. Will definately try to find out just a tiny bit more about them, and possibly try to bring either into my regular gaming group, even. Thanks for an epic post with loads of helpful links, not to mention suggestions with low tresholds, which is really cool.

Glad you found it useful :) The one intro gamefor an existing gamer I should have mentioned but forgot was the post-apocalyptic sci-fi Gamma World (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786955082). If this cartoon (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/10/13) seems cool it's well worth looking at.


GURPS is a modular system, and GURPS lite is a version of the game with a stripped down rule set, bearing only the basic rules. And that's a great thing, since GURPS can get overwhelmingly complex with all the available extra rules. What's best about it is that it's available in a neat 32 pages long PDF for free! Here (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/) is the link.

GURPS sourcebooks are excellent - but it really can get overhwelmingly complex. My advice to someone starting out roleplaying is that if GURPS has a book that fits a given setting, it will almost certainly be better than any official setting book that setting has. But GURPS can get very heavy and slow to run fast - and requires a lot more up front investment from the players than almost any game that had its first edition published in the past 20 years.


I... Can't really recommend anything regarding Storyteller. I didn't really like the new edition, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to recommend anything regarding the old one. :smalleek:

Storyteller was ... ahead of its time. Which is the best thing I can say about it. In 1991, the idea of spending willpower for bonusses and of a dark modern fantasy as opposed to fantasy fantasy setting was almost revolutionary. Dice pool systems were fairly new to RPGs (the first published one being in the official Ghost Busters RPG in 1986), and it stood out like a beacon against AD&D 2e. Unfortunately the business model overwhelmed what good points it had (http://eudaimonaiaclaughter.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/storyteller-tell-me-a-story/)- and the system is very very dated. To the point that if I were going to run a game of Vampire the Masquerade I think I'd use an Apocalypse World hack. Possibly a Smallville hack for higher power/more political games. And Fate Core for Mage the Ascension.

Most modern independent games (as opposed to D&D derivatives), however, come from the crucible of The Forge (http://eudaimonaiaclaughter.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/forging-motivation-game-design-is-mind-control/) (apparently the actual articles still aren't up so I'm linking my summary). Which basically had three premises:
1: The Storyteller system isn't very good for telling stories. We can and should do better.
2: What Gygaxian D&D players do isn't what we want to do. We shouldn't mock them for having BadWrongFun when what they do is actually pretty cool.
3: Independent people can publish RPGs.

Taet
2013-06-11, 11:53 PM
Thank you, neonchameleon.

mcbobbo
2013-06-14, 03:55 PM
If you're new and want to dive in, you have two common paths to consider:

1) Go find a group and join up. This will mean you will not get to pick your system, as you will only have access to what's being played. But if you're completely new, it really shouldn't matter right away. Almost every RPG is worth playing, at least for a while. There's plenty of time to worry about 'best' after you've learned the ropes.

Some good sources for groups -

Local game stores. If you're willing to post your closest metro area, people can probably help you find one.

Pathfinder Society. Being an organized club for playing a really popular version of D&D, it's really easy to find a game near you. Plus you don't need the GMs permission to play 'xyz' character. If it meets the PFS rules for play, you're good to go. You can also find PFS games online at places like....

Roll20.net. It has a LFG section that should seem pretty familiar to an MMO player...

2) Become a GM - Pick a system you think you might like (again almost any one will do) and force your friends/sibs/neighbors to play it with you. A lot of us got our start this way. It has social challenges that a player will almost never see (it's a bit like being a Guild Master, organizing raids, settling disputes, etc), but some of us can't hardly stand to RPG any other way...